What do you think of men passing abortion laws?

[Phasmal]

Snip.

You can get as mad as you like, but you cannot force someone to do something to their own body that they do not want.
Like I said, he should have a say, and I think all women should consider what the father wants, but it's still their body.

 

[eye of the divine]

Here's your problem, you're just going off of one sentence completely taken out of context. I said "I think abortion should be legal but there should be a situaltional set of rules" meaning that in cases where the father is mentally unstable or y'know, a rapist, she'd get full control. Another problem is that people are under this illusion that everything involved with an abortion is exclusively on the woman, that it's her body and emotional state and we should cradle her in our arms and give her full control of the situation regardless of the details. That concept is extremist, elitist, sexist, and utterly ridiculous. You don't think a fathers life can be utterly destroyed from an abortion he had absolutely no say in? What if he has the means to raise the child? What if he wants to raise the child himself? What if she is just a loose slut who has abortions like she's snacking on potato chips? What of the father? He's nothing? He's not a human being that has feelings? I'm not saying it should be his choice entirely, but he should also have a say in how things turn out as well as the woman. This isn't just her body, THAT'S HIS FUCKING SEED MAN! HALF HIS DNA! THAT IS A PART OF HIM! Stop thinking in black and white because even the smallest of things are not that simple, let alone a life choice such as this.

It's none of his business unless she chooses to include him to begin with. You want stricter rules on abortion fine; then allow me the pleasure of optional serialisation. I never want children and yet I can't give myself 100% protection from the possibility because a man is telling me I can't.

If a woman doesn't want a baby she shouldn't be forced, you make it sound like women make this decision lightly, like it's you know, it's nothing at all. Well news flash it's just as emotionally traumatising as having a child when you don't want it as it is to abort it. You accuse others of seeing this in black and white when you choose to do so yourself, stop being a hypocrite.

If he's so concerned about his DNA he should be more careful where he fucking leaves it then shouldn't he? As soon as DNA leaves your body you no longer have right to it anyway it pretty much belongs to whomever you give it to (if memory serves me.)

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

It's none of his business unless she chooses to include him to begin with. You want stricter rules on abortion fine; then allow me the pleasure of optional serialisation. I never want children and yet I can't give myself 100% protection from the possibility because a man is telling me I can't.

If a woman doesn't want a baby she shouldn't be forced, you make it sound like women make this decision lightly, like it's you know, it's nothing at all. Well news flash it's just as emotionally traumatising as having a child when you don't want it as it is to abort it. You accuse others of seeing this in black and white when you choose to do so yourself, stop being a hypocrite.

If he's so concerned about his DNA he should be more careful where he fucking leaves it then shouldn't he? As soon as DNA leaves your body you no longer have right to it anyway it pretty much belongs to whomever you give it to (if memory serves me.)

You're just assuming which is seemingly the biggest problem people are repeating here. I understand the emotional impact on women it can have and didn't feel the need to elaborate since nearly everyone else here already has. It takes two people to fuck, as in the number two, as in one more than the number one, why are you giving all the power to one individual when two people were involved with the event? You're whole argument revolves around telling the guy to go fuck himself because the woman is the one giving birth, as if this is solely a physical process. There's not even a point to go any further cause you're likely just going to ignore the fact that men are human beings, and have emotions. No equal ground should even be attempted to be found because women, oh the poor women, are the only ones who are capable of suffering here.

 

[esperandote]

I'm pro-choice. No one can tell a Woman what She can and cannot do with her body.

1. Yes, I think Abortion should be legal. I also think the woman should not receive any money or possessions from the man if he wanted to abort but she refused. It's a mutual fucking decision, you're entitled to nothing.

A Man cannot force a Woman do do things to her body like abortion.

It takes two to make a baby, if he doesn't want to risk it he should abstinent. Otherwise Man up and realise what you created.

Im going to counter your first argument

It takes two to make a baby, if she doesn't want to risk it she should abstinent. Otherwise Woman up and realise what you created.

I'm pro life in case of consensual sex and healthy pregnancy. I believe people shouldn't be having recreational sex if is not willing to embrace the the possible consequences.

Good thing abortion is a possible consequence. Oops, looks like you're being selective about which possible consequences you support. Not a good argument.

Abortion is no a consequence of having sex, it's a solution of being pregnant.

Okay, and birth isn't a consequence of having sex, it's a solution of being pregnant. Yay alternate solutions to the actual consequence.

Birth is a natural solution of being pregnant (wich is a consequence of having sex) and gives life as result.

Induced abortion is an unnatural solution of being pregnant and it inhibits life as result.

 

[ElPatron]

I am against liberalization (might be wrongfully translated) but I am for the decriminalization of abortion and the service should be offered as long as expenses are paid from your pocket or covered by the insurance if you really want it without a medical reason.

And for fuck's sake give them a free lecture about contraceptives.

2. If men happen t be the ones in congress they have the right to pass any law they want, no matter how stupid the law is, that's just how the American government works.

Not just the American. I think pretty much the whole Western world works like that.

You can get as mad as you like, but you cannot force someone to do something to their own body that they do not want.

Nobody is talking about forcing other people to do things. If we carry this to the extreme (aka "mother has the only acceptable opinion of what to do and let's ignore the man") then the man should have the same right: his own opinion being opting out of fatherhood without repercussions.

 

[Crimsom Storm]

I say... give the men an option where they can "abort" their status as the father, IE, remove their name from registration as the father, not have to pay for the child/child support at all. That way if the woman wants to keep the kid... fine, she can keep it. The man doesn't have to pay for the decision of the woman. I think we'd see a lot of men stop caring about this issue, and just leave it to women if that were so.

captcha: die-hard

 

[esperandote]

I'm pro-choice. No one can tell a Woman what She can and cannot do with her body.

1. Yes, I think Abortion should be legal. I also think the woman should not receive any money or possessions from the man if he wanted to abort but she refused. It's a mutual fucking decision, you're entitled to nothing.

A Man cannot force a Woman do do things to her body like abortion.

It takes two to make a baby, if he doesn't want to risk it he should abstinent. Otherwise Man up and realise what you created.

Im going to counter your first argument

It takes two to make a baby, if she doesn't want to risk it she should abstinent. Otherwise Woman up and realise what you created.

I'm pro life in case of consensual sex and healthy pregnancy. I believe people shouldn't be having recreational sex if is not willing to embrace the the possible consequences.

Good thing abortion is a possible consequence. Oops, looks like you're being selective about which possible consequences you support. Not a good argument.

Abortion is no a consequence of having sex, it's a solution of being pregnant.

Okay, and birth isn't a consequence of having sex, it's a solution of being pregnant. Yay alternate solutions to the actual consequence.

Birth is a natural solution of being pregnant (wich is a consequence of having sex) and gives life as result.

Induced abortion is an unnatural solution of being pregnant and it inhibits life as result.

It's as unnatural as getting surgery instead of dying. And naturalness is irrelevant. Still a consequence.

Surgery to avoid death, not to avoid life.

Under your logic in case of an adult person it doesn't matter the person dies naturally or murdered.

 

[esperandote]

I'm pro-choice. No one can tell a Woman what She can and cannot do with her body.

1. Yes, I think Abortion should be legal. I also think the woman should not receive any money or possessions from the man if he wanted to abort but she refused. It's a mutual fucking decision, you're entitled to nothing.

A Man cannot force a Woman do do things to her body like abortion.

It takes two to make a baby, if he doesn't want to risk it he should abstinent. Otherwise Man up and realise what you created.

Im going to counter your first argument

It takes two to make a baby, if she doesn't want to risk it she should abstinent. Otherwise Woman up and realise what you created.

I'm pro life in case of consensual sex and healthy pregnancy. I believe people shouldn't be having recreational sex if is not willing to embrace the the possible consequences.

Good thing abortion is a possible consequence. Oops, looks like you're being selective about which possible consequences you support. Not a good argument.

Abortion is no a consequence of having sex, it's a solution of being pregnant.

Okay, and birth isn't a consequence of having sex, it's a solution of being pregnant. Yay alternate solutions to the actual consequence.

Birth is a natural solution of being pregnant (wich is a consequence of having sex) and gives life as result.

Induced abortion is an unnatural solution of being pregnant and it inhibits life as result.

It's as unnatural as getting surgery instead of dying. And naturalness is irrelevant. Still a consequence.

Surgery to avoid death, not to avoid life.

And? What is the big difference that somehow makes natural vs unnatural relevant? You missed the bit where you explain why your sentence is actually relevant.

An abortion is not a consequence of pregnancy it its a consequence of the abortion procedure, wich is a procedure someone chooses to do, not like birth that is the natural result of pregnancy, natrual vs unatural, that's it's relevancy.

If you choose not to understand it it's your problem, if you can't handle someone refuting your arguments and say they dont make any sense out of nothing it's your problem too.

Under your logic in case of an adult person it doesn't matter the person dies naturally or murdered.

False. It does matter, but not because it was natural vs unnatural. Before you try to claim something about logic, use it. There are more factors to it than natural and unnatural.

You forgot to say why it matters. Whats the difference between allowing someone that has born to live and someone that hasn't born to live? Whats the difference between killing someon that has born and killing someone that hasn't born?

 

[JimB]

Personally, I'm automatically against anyone who says "unnatural" as a synonym for "bad," not the least because I have no idea what "unnatural" even means. Anything that doesn't occur in nature is bad, huh? You know what doesn't occur in nature? Soap. Also toilets. "Unnatural" as a pejorative is meaningless.

 

[Pseudoboss]

I'm pro-choice,
Fetuses, for the vast majority of the gestation period have the sentience and self-awareness of slime mold. Maybe, if science could say "Hey, here's the point at which the baby's brain starts firing and forming structures identifiable as a human brain." then after that point, an abortion might become illegal. Fetuses more resemble chickens than babies.
If someone says "Then don't get pregnant in the first place" They don't understand the pressures placed on both girls and boys to have sex. It's seen as a rite of passage for many men and boys; and for girls, as a form of communication and a show of love. Sex is MUCH more than just reproduction, it's practically a form of entertainment for some.
Then, a lot of people who get pregnant and want abortions is because it's economically unviable for them to rear a child. Men can run, and quite often will, and it's easy enough to avoid paying child support. which leads a woman stranded with this kid. If the law stated that an abortion is illegal if the man doesn't consent to it, then many women might be stuck trying to track down someone who ran. this could open windows to entire multitudes of problems and economic harassment, economic rape, which I wouldn't put past some people.
Illegalizing abortion, and forcing the children to be put in foster care would put enormous amounts of strain on an already defunct system. And many children who go to foster care lead miserable lives.
Then, there's just the fact that making abortion illegal is not the place for law, laws are supposed to protect the rights and freedoms of humans, (And, in the case of animal cruelty laws, animals that have been proven to be somewhat intelligent and self-aware. not slime molds. And limiting the freedoms women for something so enormous as having something that you'll probably have to rear and live with for the next eighteen years, and could very well place an economic, career and livelihood damper for the next eighteen years, is not the place of law.



And who the hell gives a damn about natural or unnatural things? Lots of horrible things happen in nature, infant and juvenile animals die all the time, and nature doesn't care. Many beetles are rapists as the primary form of reproduction. Most unnatural things are in place because, undeniably NATURE DOESN'T GIVE TWO SHITS. And if nature doesn't care, and it's to our benefit to do something unnatural, then do the unnatural thing.

 

[esperandote]

You're choosing to be dishonest. Or maybe you don't know what the word relevant means. You couldn't refute anything most likely anyway. People who jump to natural/unnatural are usually just spewing whatever bullshit to support their preconceived notion.

*facepalm*

I've explained it to you about 4 times and have been nothing but honest in my argument and if i derailed from the discussion is because you keep asking question outside the discussion.

First off, prove it counts as 'someone' and not just 'something'. Also you apparently can't keep the damn argument straight. 'it' in this context was the difference between a natural death and a murder. And the reason it matters is not because of natural vs unnatural, that dichotomy is stupid, it matters because of a person's rights being violated.

Exactly because you can't prove when it becomes someone people should respect pregnancies since conception, better to no kill someone than allowing things to become someone. Just like in innocent until proven guilty, it should be person because you can't prove otherwise.

I see you have no intention but to keep ignoring my answers and want to keep asking the same question over and over so im going to end this discussion with you. Saying fancy words, saying people have other intentions and starting replies with "False, ..." doesnt make you right, smarter or a good debater.

 

[esperandote]

...

read post above

 

[Exocet]

I'm pro-choice (I hate these denominations)

Also, men should be just as involved in the decision of aborting, and the making of the law.
What a lot of people seem to forget, especially women, is that it takes more than just a women to have a child. A man is involved at the start, and him not having a single say in it would be abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous.

Captcha: HARP ON
Right on my hard rocking friend!

 

[aestu]

Question: Do you agree that women should be able to choose or do you think that abortion should be illegal?
Question 2: Do you think that men have a right to help pass or stop a law which prevents abortion?

Question 3: If abortion is legal, should men be allowed to refuse to pay child support?