What do you think of rap?

[AnarchistFish]

I don't listen to Manson, so I don't follow anything he does or says. I just know a bit of his older work and couldn't think of any other extremely famous Metal artists. And again, I'm addressing the most popular people in these genres because I neither know much nor give any fucks about underground rap music. The stuff that gets noticed might as well be poison, in my eyes. The people who give rap a bad name (the wiggers) only listen to the trash of the genre anyway, and even my friend who constantly tries to get me to understand how "deep" his music is just listens to stuff about growing up in the ghetto and dealing drugs (he's a suburban white boy.)

Yeah, I haven't even been impressed by underground rap I've heard.

And I don't see why people keep lauding this Macklemore fellow. I couldn't understand a lyric of Thrift Shop, but it sounded like shitty generic party music to me. Am I wrong and the lyrics are actually really smart/well thought out? I dunno', I just know a bunch of idiots I associate with like it, along with crap like 50 Cent and Lil' Wayne.

So yeah, when the rappers on TV and on the radio are making something that has good lyrics, meaning and doesn't encourage 12 year old dipshits to act "hard as fuck", I'll give ya'll an apology, but I'm not digging around in a genre that just sounds unpleasant to me so that I can tell you your music isn't crap. Not like anybody needs me to validate them, anyway. I'm only 19, I'm from a generation that obsesses over rap, and by all rights I should like it. But I can't. It's terrible, it makes decent people turn into terrible people, and I can't even respect my own age group because of it (and Jersey Shore.) This is probably the only generation where a large group of people are defaulting to their parents' music. Why? Because our music sucks!

Macklemore is alright. Thrift Shop is extremely annoying though. I know it's meant to be tongue in cheek, but I hate that that was the song that made him big. If anything should've been Wings. That's a brilliant song, and it actually has a good message to it.




As far as modern day music goes, I hate when people just dismiss it, and that all the good music was released in the past. There's plenty of brilliant music being released all the time these days, and the internet has created a golden generation of sorts as it's allowed an immense variety of genres and creativity to get a platform and reach fans, unlike before when bands would have to satisfy the conditions of record labels and TV Music channels to then gain exposure. It's put the control of music right back into the hands of the artists. Of course, that means you have to look harder to find the stuff you enjoy, but that's another thing that irks me and that you've just exemplified - you judge the genre based on what you've been exposed to and you commit yourself to judging it but you then refuse to look deeper into it to actually validate your opinion. You can't have it both ways. It isn't my fault you haven't heard the good stuff.


Also, hip hop's been around for decades. If anything it was bigger in the 90s/early 00s than it is now. And I don't even know what a wigger is. Never heard of them.

 

[Cheesepower5]

I don't listen to Manson, so I don't follow anything he does or says. I just know a bit of his older work and couldn't think of any other extremely famous Metal artists. And again, I'm addressing the most popular people in these genres because I neither know much nor give any fucks about underground rap music. The stuff that gets noticed might as well be poison, in my eyes. The people who give rap a bad name (the wiggers) only listen to the trash of the genre anyway, and even my friend who constantly tries to get me to understand how "deep" his music is just listens to stuff about growing up in the ghetto and dealing drugs (he's a suburban white boy.)

Yeah, I haven't even been impressed by underground rap I've heard.

And I don't see why people keep lauding this Macklemore fellow. I couldn't understand a lyric of Thrift Shop, but it sounded like shitty generic party music to me. Am I wrong and the lyrics are actually really smart/well thought out? I dunno', I just know a bunch of idiots I associate with like it, along with crap like 50 Cent and Lil' Wayne.

So yeah, when the rappers on TV and on the radio are making something that has good lyrics, meaning and doesn't encourage 12 year old dipshits to act "hard as fuck", I'll give ya'll an apology, but I'm not digging around in a genre that just sounds unpleasant to me so that I can tell you your music isn't crap. Not like anybody needs me to validate them, anyway. I'm only 19, I'm from a generation that obsesses over rap, and by all rights I should like it. But I can't. It's terrible, it makes decent people turn into terrible people, and I can't even respect my own age group because of it (and Jersey Shore.) This is probably the only generation where a large group of people are defaulting to their parents' music. Why? Because our music sucks!

Macklemore is alright. Thrift Shop is extremely annoying though. I know it's meant to be tongue in cheek, but I hate that that was the song that made him big. If anything should've been Wings. That's a brilliant song, and it actually has a good message to it.




As far as modern day music goes, I hate when people just dismiss it, and that all the good music was released in the past. There's plenty of brilliant music being released all the time these days, and the internet has created a golden generation of sorts as it's allowed an immense variety of genres and creativity to get a platform and reach fans, unlike before when bands would have to satisfy the conditions of record labels and TV Music channels to then gain exposure. It's put the control of music right back into the hands of the artists. Of course, that means you have to look harder to find the stuff you enjoy, but that's another thing that irks me and that you've just exemplified - you judge the genre based on what you've been exposed to and you commit yourself to judging it but you then refuse to look deeper into it to actually validate your opinion. You can't have it both ways. It isn't my fault you haven't heard the good stuff.


Also, hip hop's been around for decades. If anything it was bigger in the 90s/early 00s than it is now. And I don't even know what a wigger is. Never heard of them.

Forgive my use of a slur, but wigger refers to "wannabe ******." Basically, somebody who's lived a sheltered, ordinary life rebelling against their parents by pretending they're a "gangsta" who grew up "in the hood." Bear in mind, I didn't come up with the term.

I'll have a habit of dismissing modern music, but when I do, I really mean what you'll see on MTV and TMZ and all of that garbage. I'm into some of the weirder modern genres, like Goa PsychoTrance, so I really can't say anything.

Also, remember that I have friends into lesser known rap, and have some experience with it to myself. I haven't only heard Minaj and Fitty', I've heard rap songs I love like "No Handlebars", more tolerable funny rap like "Fuck Shit Stack" and Benny Truong and more serious, underground rap like Vinny Paz and Eyedea. Or at least, my friend says they're underground. I can tell that some of it has depth, or ideals, but it isn't the stuff that receives attention like Pink Floyd or The Doors did. I haven't heard every rock song. I've probably heard more little known rap than little known rock. The facts, as far as I can see, are that rock music simply had more depth to be made popular and marketable than rap ever did. I have no data to back this up, I don't think you have any to disprove it. There's not an easy way to quantify this. But from all my experience, the good and the bad taken side by side...

I still see wigger kids who like Tupac when I think rap, and I still think people with strongly held, valid ideals listening to The Clash or The Beatles when I think rock. In my mind, that can only mean that rap has less good in it. Or at least, more shit.

 

[Smeatza]

Well, marketing never found out how to make wiggers before rap music came along. Even if it made that the most prevalent form of rap music, without the genre, none of the damage it's done would have happened. So I think you're trying to blame marketing for doing what it does (make cash) while rap is the one turning kids into obnoxious little failures with no respect for their culture, their family or even life. I'd trade all the good, meaningful rap songs like No Handlebars just to get rid of the wigger fad. Seriously, can I say this enough? Fuck wiggers.

Marketing makes crap things popular.
This has an effect on the surrounding culture.
I would also question what comes first, the desire to be a delinquent, or the music. I'm pretty sure it's the former. And the latter reinforces the former, not inspires it.

I've never heard of Hopsin. None of my friends who like rap music have ever mentioned Hopsin. I'm sure he's a swell guy, but at least in my are, he ain't popular. And again, I'd gladly sacrifice him to whatever god is willing to erase rap music from the annals of time. I don't think anybody could show me a song to change my mind on that.

Well his youtube videos get like 12 million hits a piece.
So you're blaming rap for the ignorance of you and your friends.

And again, I've never said there's no good rap. I've name-dropped like three rap songs or artists I've enjoyed. I just solemnly believe that the genre has done more harm than good, and dreck like Nikki Minaj and 50 Cent are simply that bad. Even if I liked the sound of repetitive drum beats and talking really quickly in an urgent tone, I would still hate everything most modern, popular rap artists stand for. It's a matter of taste and principle, not how many people who I've never heard of you can name.

So basically you're happy sitting in a pool of your own ignorance and blaming it on external factors?

I just solemnly believe that the genre has done more harm than good

Again, complete ignorance.
Maybe if things carry on the way they are for the next 30 years or so, maybe at that point the genre will have done the same amount of harm as good.
But to say that now? Well you clearly don't know the history of rap and hip hop.

So let's get this straight, rap is crap because:
-You don't know anything about those who perform it, new or old
-You don't know anything about the history of the genre and its cultural influence
-You have some extremist christian vendetta against it
I get you might not actually be a christian, but I'm highlighting the fact that your complaints are exactly the same as those leveled at rock n roll by christians when that was new.

My best suggestion to you would be to head down to your local library, pick up a book, and actually learn something about rap and hip hop, before making wildly inaccurate, outlandish statements.

 

[AnarchistFish]

I don't listen to Manson, so I don't follow anything he does or says. I just know a bit of his older work and couldn't think of any other extremely famous Metal artists. And again, I'm addressing the most popular people in these genres because I neither know much nor give any fucks about underground rap music. The stuff that gets noticed might as well be poison, in my eyes. The people who give rap a bad name (the wiggers) only listen to the trash of the genre anyway, and even my friend who constantly tries to get me to understand how "deep" his music is just listens to stuff about growing up in the ghetto and dealing drugs (he's a suburban white boy.)

Yeah, I haven't even been impressed by underground rap I've heard.

And I don't see why people keep lauding this Macklemore fellow. I couldn't understand a lyric of Thrift Shop, but it sounded like shitty generic party music to me. Am I wrong and the lyrics are actually really smart/well thought out? I dunno', I just know a bunch of idiots I associate with like it, along with crap like 50 Cent and Lil' Wayne.

So yeah, when the rappers on TV and on the radio are making something that has good lyrics, meaning and doesn't encourage 12 year old dipshits to act "hard as fuck", I'll give ya'll an apology, but I'm not digging around in a genre that just sounds unpleasant to me so that I can tell you your music isn't crap. Not like anybody needs me to validate them, anyway. I'm only 19, I'm from a generation that obsesses over rap, and by all rights I should like it. But I can't. It's terrible, it makes decent people turn into terrible people, and I can't even respect my own age group because of it (and Jersey Shore.) This is probably the only generation where a large group of people are defaulting to their parents' music. Why? Because our music sucks!

Macklemore is alright. Thrift Shop is extremely annoying though. I know it's meant to be tongue in cheek, but I hate that that was the song that made him big. If anything should've been Wings. That's a brilliant song, and it actually has a good message to it.




As far as modern day music goes, I hate when people just dismiss it, and that all the good music was released in the past. There's plenty of brilliant music being released all the time these days, and the internet has created a golden generation of sorts as it's allowed an immense variety of genres and creativity to get a platform and reach fans, unlike before when bands would have to satisfy the conditions of record labels and TV Music channels to then gain exposure. It's put the control of music right back into the hands of the artists. Of course, that means you have to look harder to find the stuff you enjoy, but that's another thing that irks me and that you've just exemplified - you judge the genre based on what you've been exposed to and you commit yourself to judging it but you then refuse to look deeper into it to actually validate your opinion. You can't have it both ways. It isn't my fault you haven't heard the good stuff.


Also, hip hop's been around for decades. If anything it was bigger in the 90s/early 00s than it is now. And I don't even know what a wigger is. Never heard of them.

Forgive my use of a slur, but wigger refers to "wannabe ******." Basically, somebody who's lived a sheltered, ordinary life rebelling against their parents by pretending they're a "gangsta" who grew up "in the hood." Bear in mind, I didn't come up with the term.

I'll have a habit of dismissing modern music, but when I do, I really mean what you'll see on MTV and TMZ and all of that garbage. I'm into some of the weirder modern genres, like Goa PsychoTrance, so I really can't say anything.

Also, remember that I have friends into lesser known rap, and have some experience with it to myself. I haven't only heard Minaj and Fitty', I've heard rap songs I love like "No Handlebars", more tolerable funny rap like "Fuck Shit Stack" and Benny Truong and more serious, underground rap like Vinny Paz and Eyedea. Or at least, my friend says they're underground. I can tell that some of it has depth, or ideals, but it isn't the stuff that receives attention like Pink Floyd or The Doors did. I haven't heard every rock song. I've probably heard more little known rap than little known rock. The facts, as far as I can see, are that rock music simply had more depth to be made popular and marketable than rap ever did. I have no data to back this up, I don't think you have any to disprove it. There's not an easy way to quantify this. But from all my experience, the good and the bad taken side by side...

I still see wigger kids who like Tupac when I think rap, and I still think people with strongly held, valid ideals listening to The Clash or The Beatles when I think rock. In my mind, that can only mean that rap has less good in it. Or at least, more shit.

Dunno, I see a lot of crap in rock. A couple of years ago it was all I listened to, but these days I probably listen to more hip hop. There's definitely good and bad in both, but I disagree with the notion that rock is mostly good and hip hop is mostly bad.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Also, you have to remember hip hop is just as much about the music as it is the lyrics. You can have some lyrics which you think are obnoxious and shitty, and dismiss the music completely on that, but at the same time be completely ignoring the production and flow which could be really creative and inventive.

 

[Cheesepower5]

Well, marketing never found out how to make wiggers before rap music came along. Even if it made that the most prevalent form of rap music, without the genre, none of the damage it's done would have happened. So I think you're trying to blame marketing for doing what it does (make cash) while rap is the one turning kids into obnoxious little failures with no respect for their culture, their family or even life. I'd trade all the good, meaningful rap songs like No Handlebars just to get rid of the wigger fad. Seriously, can I say this enough? Fuck wiggers.

Marketing makes crap things popular.
This has an effect on the surrounding culture.
I would also question what comes first, the desire to be a delinquent, or the music. I'm pretty sure it's the former. And the latter reinforces the former, not inspires it.

I've never heard of Hopsin. None of my friends who like rap music have ever mentioned Hopsin. I'm sure he's a swell guy, but at least in my are, he ain't popular. And again, I'd gladly sacrifice him to whatever god is willing to erase rap music from the annals of time. I don't think anybody could show me a song to change my mind on that.

Well his youtube videos get like 12 million hits a piece.
So you're blaming rap for the ignorance of you and your friends.

And again, I've never said there's no good rap. I've name-dropped like three rap songs or artists I've enjoyed. I just solemnly believe that the genre has done more harm than good, and dreck like Nikki Minaj and 50 Cent are simply that bad. Even if I liked the sound of repetitive drum beats and talking really quickly in an urgent tone, I would still hate everything most modern, popular rap artists stand for. It's a matter of taste and principle, not how many people who I've never heard of you can name.

So basically you're happy sitting in a pool of your own ignorance and blaming it on external factors?

I just solemnly believe that the genre has done more harm than good

Again, complete ignorance.
Maybe if things carry on the way they are for the next 30 years or so, maybe at that point the genre will have done the same amount of harm as good.
But to say that now? Well you clearly don't know the history of rap and hip hop.

So let's get this straight, rap is crap because:
-You don't know anything about those who perform it, new or old
-You don't know anything about the history of the genre and its cultural influence
-You have some extremist christian vendetta against it
I get you might not actually be a christian, but I'm highlighting the fact that your complaints are exactly the same as those leveled at rock n roll by christians when that was new.

My best suggestion to you would be to head down to your local library, pick up a book, and actually learn something about rap and hip hop, before making wildly inaccurate, outlandish statements.

You certainly are fond of the word ignorant. Perhaps you should look it up in a thesaurus. It would make your post more entertaining to read.

Now then, if I'm so unknowledgable about this messianic history of rap music, why don't you enlighten me? If it's done so much good, compared to the people who've become squalid assholes because of the messages it spreads, then what exactly was it? I'd be genuinely interested to know.

Rather than tell me I'm ignorant, I'd get a much better impression of the supposedly "intelligent" fans of the genre if you were to explain your point of view. I'm not wasting my time reading about it in a public library to do you a favour.

I'll address any other actual arguments when you have one. And for the record, I'm not Christian, I'm anti-censorship and any time I suggest eliminating rap from the annals of history, I'm making a purposeful exaggeration with the intent of humour.

Also, again, I'll say that marketing has never made anything quite as bad as wiggers or guidos without the aid of rap music and Jersey Shore. I'd say this reflects more poorly on the messages of these things and the attitudes of the people who consume it, not on the simple, profit hungry nature of marketing. After all, Pink Floyd was popular. Also, seriously... Compare a hippy or a Punk Rock hooligan to a wigger or an actual modern gangster. Who's worse? Definitely not the hippy, and probably not the hooligan. Do you actually think wiggers and gangsters are the voice of the future? I bloody hope not.

@AnarchistFish: Yeah, there's crappy rock songs. Hell, most of The Beatles' popular music is their shittier, lovey-dovey nonsense. What sells isn't necessarily what's good. Nothing's perfect. My experiences just point toward Rock as the generally more respectable genre.

I understand some people like the sound of rap, I just don't. I like Psycho Trance though, so I can't really say that my tastes aren't questionable. The genre might as well be called Cacophony.

 

[Smeatza]

You certainly are fond of the word ignorant. Perhaps you should look it up in a thesaurus. It would make your post more entertaining to read.

It was not the intention of my post to entertain. The repeated use of the word "ignorant" highlighted there are many different facets of ignorance that make up the diamond that is your cluelessness.
Entertaining enough for you yet?

Now then, if I'm so unknowledgable about this messianic history of rap music, why don't you enlighten me? If it's done so much good, compared to the people who've become squalid assholes because of the messages it spreads, then what exactly was it? I'd be genuinely interested to know.
Rather than tell me I'm ignorant, I'd get a much better impression of the supposedly "intelligent" fans of the genre if you were to explain your point of view. I'm not wasting my time reading about it in a public library to do you a favour.

Combating your own ignorance would be doing me a favour?
You should do yourself the favour.
If you're too lazy/stubborn to do a quick google search on the relevant history, I'm certainly not going to do it for you.
I will tell you two things though.
1. Rap is a medium, to say you do not like it is the equivalent of saying you don't like singing.
2. Everything you've written only applies to Gangsta' rap (and arguably at that). You are holding the medium accountable for a subgenre, within a genre, within said medium.

I'll address any other actual arguments when you have one.

Oh you will, will you?
Because the following points have all been in my previous posts yet have remain unaddressed by yourself.
- The genre is not to blame for what the television or radio choose to play. You wrote "when the rappers on TV and on the radio are making something......" and then listed your demands. So your issue is with the TV channels and radio stations, not with the medium.
- The genre/medium does not encourage delinquency, it may attract those partial to it, but it's probably just down to the fact that it's a very popular music and the chances are that your average person (delinquent or not) listens to it.

And for the record, I'm not Christian, I'm anti-censorship and any time I suggest eliminating rap from the annals of history, I'm making a purposeful exaggeration with the intent of humour.

Yet you make no attempt to separate this supposed humour derived from exaggerated views from your actual extreme views.

Also, again, I'll say that marketing has never made anything quite as bad as wiggers or guidos without the aid of rap music and Jersey Shore. I'd say this reflects more poorly on the messages of these things and the attitudes of the people who consume it, not on the simple, profit hungry nature of marketing. After all, Pink Floyd was popular. Also, seriously... Compare a hippy or a Punk Rock hooligan to a wigger or an actual modern gangster. Who's worse? Definitely not the hippy, and probably not the hooligan. Do you actually think wiggers and gangsters are the voice of the future? I bloody hope not.

Guido's pre-date Jersey Shore. White delinquents pre-date rap. Your comparison is invalid.
The fact that you think that punks were "probably not worse" than wiggers (or whatever you want to call them), again shows how little you know of the subject.
Wiggers don't spit at bands they like. Punks do.

It's getting to the point now where yours posts are so misinformed it's getting difficult to know where to start.
You seem to have some vendetta against educating yourself as well so all I can really say is good luck with your snobbery.

 

[Johanthemonster666]

I like most old school rap and a lot of the political themes throughout up til recent years. It's hard to defend a lot of it, but that's what happens when record labels and corporate music industry fatcats exploit something the quality delines dramatically.

Edit: Rap is a genre, very diverse and not something you can stereotype or pigeonhole. The garbage that seems popular is just a testament to all the other 'popular' bad music rap critics pretend doesn't exist or represent their tastes.

 

[the Dept of Science]

Tonality is very similar, vocally a lot of rappers sound exactly the same. Play me Mick Jagger, Axl Rose, Ozzy Osbourne, Liam Gallagher, Kurt Cobain, Robert Plant, Micheal Jackson, James Brown, Freddy Mercury, Johnny Rotten, Meat Loaf, even pop dross like Robbie Williams etc. and from the natural tone their voices have (because they are singing) I can instantly recognize who it is. With the majority of rap artists it's far harder to define. I'm not saying you can't define them, but it's nowhere near as clear or instantaneous.

Well, firstly, you are choosing a sample of artists from very different genres. Punk, metal, hard rock, brit pop, funk... If you were to compare singers within just one of those, then I don't think that you would find the variety that you are talking about.

Secondly, look at a group like NWA or Odd Future with 5 rappers, or Wu-Tang Clan, with 9. The fact that you can tell who is rapping at any time goes against your theory. They all have very distinctive accents or vocal ticks, which are the sort of things that tend to get smoothed over with singing training.


Anyway, one thing I've noticed about rap threads is how much opinion has changed over the past few years. I remember if you started a rap thread on a site like this, the majority would say that they couldn't stand it and it would be just a small minority helplessly trying to defend it. Now it seems like the opposite, with a lot of defenders, a number who are open to it but largely indifferent and just a few saying that they can't stand it.

 

[Cheesepower5]

Smeatza: You're an asshole. I'd be glad to listen to your reasoning of why rap has been a positive influence, either on culture or on music, moreso than the popularisation of gangster culture. But no, you're just gonna be a prick. So fuck it, fuck you and fuck this whole damned forum. The only people I even like on it are barely active anyway.

I'm done with this stupid fucking forum and its snobby, pretentious assholes of a userbase.