what if developers shut down used game sales completely?

[Epona]

Okay, wait just a second here. Devs can't even make a DENT in piracy, yet you think they might actually manage somehow to completely shut down used game sales? HA HAHAHAHAHHAAAHA *snort* cough cough

Well, if that day ever does come, I'm going to use my massive telekinetic superpowers to relocate to Mars where I will rule eternally over an empire of dudes straight from a Boris Vallejo painting.

In any case I buy pretty much all of my games new and never trade them in, so who cares.

They used DRM to kill the used PC market and they can and will do the same with consoles. The reason this tactic doesn't work for piracy is because pirates just strip or go around the DRM. You ever heard the phrase "When you outlaw guns, only the criminals will have them"? That's because the law only affects law-abiding citizens. In this case, only honest customers are affected by DRM.

People still pass used PC games around all the time--just not necessarily via stores who have to worry about various people throwing a fit. The used PC games market was virtually nonexistant LONG before DRM came along--heck even twenty years ago you still couldn't RETURN a game you'd bought, much less sell it used to a store, even if you had all the bits.

When was DRM non existant? Those old copy protection schemes were a form of DRM. Those PC games people are passing around are older ones that don't have online activation. Newer games have no value once the activation code is used and registered to an online account. This is what they will do with consoles.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I see no problem with that exact situation happening. In fact, it would probably be a good thing. It certainly wouldn't change my buying habits much at all. I already study up on games I want to buy and wait until the ones I'm not sure of are cheap enough that I don't feel they're a waste even if they don't turn out to be masterpieces. It could also encourage publishers to finally look into a proper pricing of games as opposed to just throwing everything they make on the market for the same amount even when there is a clear disparity in quality/value.

 

[Neverhoodian]

All it would do is encourage piracy further. Why buy a game you can't trade in later if you don't like it?

It would also hurt the legacy of gaming as a whole. There's been several occasions where I've bought old used games that aren't produced anymore because I missed them the first time around. A friend recommends it to me, my interest is piqued, I try to find a used copy.

Finally, what happens if your console breaks down? Is the game no longer playable now even though you bought it fair and square? Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

 

[teisjm]

It's not just about trading your games in.
I see this all the time in threads like this, and starts to wonder, am i really the only one, who borrows game discs to and from my friend?
Am i the only one who will bring a game to a friends house to play a game i've bought, while we're at his place, without having to bring my console as well?

Locking it to one console would suck if your console broke as well, imagine having to re-buy your entire collection if your 360 RROD'ed

You're allowed to read a book owned by someone else if you borrow it, you're allowed to bring a movie to a friend, and watch it at his place, you can borrow your friends car, his frying pan etc. why should games be any different?

whats next? locking the controller to your fingerprints to prevent friend coming over and playing your games at yoru plafce on your console, cause they didn't pay for it?

 

[Toriver]

The day publishers murder the used game market (and I use that word deliberately) is the day I sell or throw away all my game consoles and stick to free flash games. I'm sorry, publishers. I'm sorry I have a life and other bills to pay and can only afford maybe one new game a year, two if I'm lucky. Used game sales make the hobby affordable for working class schmucks like me. If I had the money, I'd sue under the Sherman Antitrust Act, which seems to be the bane of so many software companies.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

I usualy don't buy used games, I just buy games from Wal Mart for 20$ or under 'cause they're old as heck. xD You'll get my money, by the time you're finished your next big game.

 

[FalloutJack]

-Snip-

Let's change the state of your question to "What would it take for PEOPLE to only buy new?", since sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.

The answer is that the prospect is not really possible. As I always say, the harder they push, the louder the pirates laugh. Alright, I don't always say those precise words, but I have indeed been saying it overall. The louder developers shout, the less anyone will listen.

More importantly, the used game market? Literally, it can't shut down. You're making more and more games, year after year, evolving and accumulating more and more. It is completely impossible to halt the influx of used games because the pile of games that exists is overwhelming, like a monster.

In fact, it is a monster with regeneration and an ever-increasing amount of HP, even while you fight it. It's a tidal wave, a volcanic eruption, etc. And companies don't have an Infinity-Plus-One Sword big enough.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Okay, wait just a second here. Devs can't even make a DENT in piracy, yet you think they might actually manage somehow to completely shut down used game sales? HA HAHAHAHAHHAAAHA *snort* cough cough

Well, if that day ever does come, I'm going to use my massive telekinetic superpowers to relocate to Mars where I will rule eternally over an empire of dudes straight from a Boris Vallejo painting.

In any case I buy pretty much all of my games new and never trade them in, so who cares.

They used DRM to kill the used PC market and they can and will do the same with consoles. The reason this tactic doesn't work for piracy is because pirates just strip or go around the DRM. You ever heard the phrase "When you outlaw guns, only the criminals will have them"? That's because the law only affects law-abiding citizens. In this case, only honest customers are affected by DRM.

People still pass used PC games around all the time--just not necessarily via stores who have to worry about various people throwing a fit. The used PC games market was virtually nonexistant LONG before DRM came along--heck even twenty years ago you still couldn't RETURN a game you'd bought, much less sell it used to a store, even if you had all the bits.

When was DRM non existant? Those old copy protection schemes were a form of DRM. Those PC games people are passing around are older ones that don't have online activation. Newer games have no value once the activation code is used and registered to an online account. This is what they will do with consoles.

So Fallout 3 is an "older game"? My housemate and I shared my copy of that. We couldn't both play at once, mind you, but we had no problems installing it and playing it on both of our computers. And, in fact, companies aren't much concerned with this sort of thing. They still sold a copy, after all, and my housemate went out and bought DLC I wasn't going to buy--so they actually sold 2 games even though both of us only really played one of them. What they are really worried about is the people who mass-copy and mass-distribute.

If console developers really want to circumvent the used games market, they won't start instituting draconican measures that lock games to a specific console. They'll simply deliver their games strictly via download. You can't re-sell a game that never exists other than as a stream of 1's and 0's.

 

[Epona]

Okay, wait just a second here. Devs can't even make a DENT in piracy, yet you think they might actually manage somehow to completely shut down used game sales? HA HAHAHAHAHHAAAHA *snort* cough cough

Well, if that day ever does come, I'm going to use my massive telekinetic superpowers to relocate to Mars where I will rule eternally over an empire of dudes straight from a Boris Vallejo painting.

In any case I buy pretty much all of my games new and never trade them in, so who cares.

They used DRM to kill the used PC market and they can and will do the same with consoles. The reason this tactic doesn't work for piracy is because pirates just strip or go around the DRM. You ever heard the phrase "When you outlaw guns, only the criminals will have them"? That's because the law only affects law-abiding citizens. In this case, only honest customers are affected by DRM.

People still pass used PC games around all the time--just not necessarily via stores who have to worry about various people throwing a fit. The used PC games market was virtually nonexistant LONG before DRM came along--heck even twenty years ago you still couldn't RETURN a game you'd bought, much less sell it used to a store, even if you had all the bits.

When was DRM non existant? Those old copy protection schemes were a form of DRM. Those PC games people are passing around are older ones that don't have online activation. Newer games have no value once the activation code is used and registered to an online account. This is what they will do with consoles.

So Fallout 3 is an "older game"? My housemate and I shared my copy of that. We couldn't both play at once, mind you, but we had no problems installing it and playing it on both of our computers. And, in fact, companies aren't much concerned with this sort of thing. They still sold a copy, after all, and my housemate went out and bought DLC I wasn't going to buy--so they actually sold 2 games even though both of us only really played one of them. What they are really worried about is the people who mass-copy and mass-distribute.

If console developers really want to circumvent the used games market, they won't start instituting draconican measures that lock games to a specific console. They'll simply deliver their games strictly via download. You can't re-sell a game that never exists other than as a stream of 1's and 0's.

Didn't Fallout 3 have Games for Windows Live? Yeah, no DRM on that game. Oh yeah, and the disc had Securom on it.

I have the GOTY version of Fallout 3 and I had to input a code for the GFWL service and I'll bet that the code is now tied to my GFWL account and so I couldn't resell it if I wanted to.

Well, if the games are only available via digital download, then retailers won't carry the consoles anymore so you'll have to have the console shipped to you. It'll happen but not yet, right now it's about locking games to a console or account just like they do with XBLA games and DLC.

 

[Gaiseric]

I'd end up buying less games maybe even close to half as many. I sometimes buy a used games because I don't have the money or don't think the game is worth full price and at times I count on the trade in value to get other games(new or used).

For me to buy a game I couldn't trade in they'd need to drop the price and be high quality polished titles with replay value beyond collectibles and multiplayer.

 

[twistedheat15]

If they killed used game market then they had better cut the prices of new games down to $40 or so, since they've taken away their major profit syphons out of the picture. Would be no excuse for continued high priced games.

 

[ks1234]

I have absolutely no issue with it, whatsoever. When games are resold it takes away from very valuable revenue from developers who could use it to make even better games. People are going to buy video games regardless, so the more you can cut down on profit loss, the better.

 

[octafish]

Didn't Fallout 3 have Games for Windows Live? Yeah, no DRM on that game. Oh yeah, and the disc had Securom on it.

I have the GOTY version of Fallout 3 and I had to input a code for the GFWL service and I'll bet that the code is now tied to my GFWL account and so I couldn't resell it if I wanted to.

Well, if the games are only available via digital download, then retailers won't carry the consoles anymore so you'll have to have the console shipped to you. It'll happen but not yet, right now it's about locking games to a console or account just like they do with XBLA games and DLC.

Just an FYI there is a mod for Fallout 3 that removes GFWL. It doesn't do anything about securerom, just disables GFWL. GFWL is just awful, I wish people would create this mod for all GFWL games.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Okay, wait just a second here. Devs can't even make a DENT in piracy, yet you think they might actually manage somehow to completely shut down used game sales? HA HAHAHAHAHHAAAHA *snort* cough cough

Well, if that day ever does come, I'm going to use my massive telekinetic superpowers to relocate to Mars where I will rule eternally over an empire of dudes straight from a Boris Vallejo painting.

In any case I buy pretty much all of my games new and never trade them in, so who cares.

They used DRM to kill the used PC market and they can and will do the same with consoles. The reason this tactic doesn't work for piracy is because pirates just strip or go around the DRM. You ever heard the phrase "When you outlaw guns, only the criminals will have them"? That's because the law only affects law-abiding citizens. In this case, only honest customers are affected by DRM.

People still pass used PC games around all the time--just not necessarily via stores who have to worry about various people throwing a fit. The used PC games market was virtually nonexistant LONG before DRM came along--heck even twenty years ago you still couldn't RETURN a game you'd bought, much less sell it used to a store, even if you had all the bits.

It's funny really, because around where I live, I was surprised to find that Gamestation (one of our two major games retail chains) was selling quite a few used PC games.

(To say nothing of the store next door that dealt exclusively in second hand games...)

It seems DRM doesn't stop them selling this stuff. Though I did notice there were no expensively priced second-hand PC games...

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

I only buy new games and I haven't traded in a game in almost a decade. This is a good solution to the GameStop problem if you ask me.

The less used game sales there are, the more money developers make, the more they can spend on new games. That's something everyone can appreciate. Well... except for GameStop. But seriously, fuck those guys.

 

[Epona]

Didn't Fallout 3 have Games for Windows Live? Yeah, no DRM on that game. Oh yeah, and the disc had Securom on it.

I have the GOTY version of Fallout 3 and I had to input a code for the GFWL service and I'll bet that the code is now tied to my GFWL account and so I couldn't resell it if I wanted to.

Well, if the games are only available via digital download, then retailers won't carry the consoles anymore so you'll have to have the console shipped to you. It'll happen but not yet, right now it's about locking games to a console or account just like they do with XBLA games and DLC.

Just an FYI there is a mod for Fallout 3 that removes GFWL. It doesn't do anything about securerom, just disables GFWL. GFWL is just awful, I wish people would create this mod for all GFWL games.

Thanks, yeah GFWL is awful.

 

[Epona]

I only buy new games and I haven't traded in a game in almost a decade. This is a good solution to the GameStop problem if you ask me.

The less used game sales there are, the more money developers make, the more they can spend on new games. That's something everyone can appreciate. Well... except for GameStop. But seriously, fuck those guys.

If people can't trade in their old games two things will happen to hurt new sales:

1) People will be less likely to buy a game at full price knowing the risk is higher. No one wants to get stuck with a $60 turd.

2) People gain money with trade-ins that they put back into more games when they trade in games. Even if people are willing to buy the same amount of $60 games, they will have less money to do so because they can't get a return on their old games.

The game industry is letting it's greed lead them off a cliff.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I have absolutely no issue with it, whatsoever. When games are resold it takes away from very valuable revenue from developers who could use it to make even better games. People are going to buy video games regardless, so the more you can cut down on profit loss, the better.

OK, several parts of that make no sense, but primarily, stopping second hand sales is ridiculous. When did we all become beholden to game developers?
Willing to support any old crazy move they make?

Can you name even a single other industry that not only gets away with trying to cripple used sales, but actively has people cheering them on? Like you seem to?

It's bad enough that intellectual monopoly laws allow people that create such things to get away with insanity that was never intended when those laws were first devised, you now want to actively encourage them to ignore the first sale doctrine as well?
(Or for that matter, at what point exactly did computer software become exempt from consumer protection laws, which state amongst other things, that a product sold should be 'fit for purpose', otherwise you are well within your rights to demand your money back...)

Seriously. Not caring is one thing. But actively encouraging the continual erosion of any and all consumer rights is not a good thing.

You seem to be saying that screwing over everyone that buys computer games is alright if it makes the people that make them slightly more money...

 

[Epona]

I have absolutely no issue with it, whatsoever. When games are resold it takes away from very valuable revenue from developers who could use it to make even better games. People are going to buy video games regardless, so the more you can cut down on profit loss, the better.

OK, several parts of that make no sense, but primarily, stopping second hand sales is ridiculous. When did we all become beholden to game developers?
Willing to support any old crazy move they make?

Can you name even a single other industry that not only gets away with trying to cripple used sales, but actively has people cheering them on? Like you seem to?

It's bad enough that intellectual monopoly laws allow people that create such things to get away with insanity that was never intended when those laws were first devised, you now want to actively encourage them to ignore the first sale doctrine as well?
(Or for that matter, at what point exactly did computer software become exempt from consumer protection laws, which state amongst other things, that a product sold should be 'fit for purpose', otherwise you are well within your rights to demand your money back...)

Seriously. Not caring is one thing. But actively encouraging the continual erosion of any and all consumer rights is not a good thing.

You seem to be saying that screwing over everyone that buys computer games is alright if it makes the people that make them slightly more money...

They believe that they will get better games this way. Don't know why they think a monopoly would produce a superior product but no one said they were thinking rationally.

 

[-Dragmire-]

This is referring to the blanket statement of ALL used game sales are wrong.

Please people, understand the used game market also covers games that are no longer in production. Why are you against people like me buying 6th gen and under games. Many old games are unavailable new. Also, certain publishers of niche games send a very limited supply of games to North America, traded in used games are sometimes the only option available. I only purchase my games from a physical store or digital distribution rather than ordering a physical disk online.


I buy new, if available(though I won't hunt from store to store looking for a new copy if the only available copy is used at the store I'm at), and have never traded in any games.