Fine, you're ignoring the whole reason why civilisation exists (grouping together makes life easier, safer and better) but I agree we're fundamentally opposed.mindlesspuppet said:
What is Obamacare?
- Thread starter PureChaos
- Start date
Yep I'm positive about that.Stryc9 said:
?Congress specifically did not allow the use of liens and seizures of property as methods of enforcing the penalty. Non-compliance with the mandate is also not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Tax Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay the penalty in a timely manner, according to the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.? ? MSNBC.com ? Jun 28, 2012
So yeah, it's a big toothless waste of time. The entire tax is built around the honor system. It's laughable.
As a Canadian, I find it incomprehensible that it seems so many Americans will fight to the death to have to pay massive fees for proceedures that most people with a NHS would deem almost trivial. Sure, there are issues with Canada's health care service, but on the whole, in my opinion, the pros far outweigh the cons. Americans need to forget about the cold war and McCarthyism and realize socialism works well for many services.
Trust the guy with the sister who's had significant uteral pain for TWO AND A HALF YEARS, and has been strung around by the system for just as long... it really is.Da Orky Man said:
I waited 20 minutes last time. It depends on what you're there for, and how busy the emergency room is. And even then, if you're bleeding or have chest pain, you go right to the front of the line. The problem is there are people who go there because they have a cold, and that adds an unnecessary drain to things.lacktheknack said:
My pleasure.AwkwardTurtle said:
Admittedly, you're not too far off on your intuition regarding the political parties, but it's a little more lop-sided than most can handle:
Republicans have been shifting their political spectrum to more Conservative extremes for about 30 years (at least according to Poole and Rosenthal of University of Georgia and New York University, respectively). With extremism comes the trend towards a binary "You're either with us or against us" system.
Take the info for what you will.
Many Americans will fight to the death so that they aren't told what they must do.Eldrig said:
Though admittedly, there are many more who are simply uninformed and think the government is trying to rid of or somehow undermine private insurers.
As far as socialism is concerned for every argument for it there's an equally important one against it. Hard to say who is right or wrong when practically the whole damn world is in economic crisis.
Could have just left it at "I agree we're fundamentally opposed." but you really had to throw the last word in there... I hate the internet sometimes.Evilpigeon said:
Can't help it, sorry that's the thing with strong opinions. To be fair, the worst I called you was callous, I think I'm doing pretty damn well by internet standards.mindlesspuppet said:
As far as I understand it in the UK, the NHS docs are like bin men or any other council jobs (I guess Americans would call them districts or counties) they get paid by that council.Bertylicious said:
It isn't an exactly perfect system as there is such a thing as a postcode lottery, there have been many programmes about NHS and schooling.
Person A lives in an area where he can get a drug he needs to extend his life by a few years for free, person B with the same condition but lives just a few miles away with the same condition but has to pay for the exact same drug 'cos his post code is different and that council doesn't fund that drug.
I guess in that sense we are like America but honest I would rather be constantly paying a little bit over many years and maybe never use "my share" than to suddenly get something and have to find £50,000 to feel better.
We also get eye tests, trips to the dentist for free as long as we are unemployed.
My country (Denmark) has tried to alleviate that by installing certain time frames for when you have to get treated, so when you pass that time limit for fx. cancer, you can go to a private hospital and the state will cover the cost. This has helped a bit, but there's still long lines of course =)
Still I feel that a line and taxes are better than some people not getting treated because they chose another path in life which doesn't give off that much cash.
Anyway, it's nice to get to know a bit more about obamacare =)
No, all states do not require car insurance but they do require financial responsibility to operate a vehicle on the roadway. While not all states require drivers to buy Liability insurance to show financial responsibility, 49 states (plus the District of Columbia) do. New Hampshire is the only state that does not have compulsory auto insurance liability laws, as of June 2010.Aulleas123 said:
So a Federally mandated auto insurance bill wouldn't change much.
The FDA is a government funded food service that protects consumers from eating potentially hazardous food. Their standards are a big reason why (while it's not recommended by any means) you can - if you so choose - eat raw bacon without getting intestinal parasites. American food is some of the safest in the world because of the FDA, and it is also the sole reason why the United States has avoided things like the Thalidomide debacle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide
Because the FDA doesn't regulate supplements, it's not uncommon for the producers of supplements (whether vitamins or herbal) to not follow any sort of standard procedure, which can result in stuff like this:
Protein Powder having too much heavy metals (Consumer Reports):
Supplements containing wildly variable amounts of vitamins.
Supplements based on "Herbal Remedies" which can be very dangerous: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/prevention/alternative/herbals_theheart.aspx
As for dating services?
I think you're on your own.
This is pretty much the core of the issue. Some people have different ideas of what healthcare is or should be.
Luckily, we live in a Democracy where people can vote to elect people who will hopefully act or not-act on certain issues.
Obama never said he wouldn't raise taxes. Even if he did, every other President who has made similar claims also broke their promises.
Obama did say, once, that Obamacare wasn't a tax - but hasn't explicitly said it wasn't since.
May I suggest that all these people who are ready to pack up and go to Canada are the same ones who are mad as hell at 'all these damn Mexicans coming into America!' ? 
I'd also suggest that when that damn muslim socialist president is taking away your freedoms to die horribly, it's one of those freedoms you can live without.
I get the feeling that people have been so sold by Romney that Obama's stealing something in some way, that they'd happily have a leg amputated, if only they could be sure that someone poorer than them is having both off.
Stop worrying that other people are benefiting from Obamacare and look into what advantages there are for you.
I do accept that, if it's true and you're going to get fined for not having enough money, then that's idiotic. If however, you're being made to choose between healthcare and donuts n beer, then that's different.
I'd also suggest that when that damn muslim socialist president is taking away your freedoms to die horribly, it's one of those freedoms you can live without.
I get the feeling that people have been so sold by Romney that Obama's stealing something in some way, that they'd happily have a leg amputated, if only they could be sure that someone poorer than them is having both off.
Stop worrying that other people are benefiting from Obamacare and look into what advantages there are for you.
I do accept that, if it's true and you're going to get fined for not having enough money, then that's idiotic. If however, you're being made to choose between healthcare and donuts n beer, then that's different.
Because Republicans believe that taxes were invented by the Devil (and Democrats are his minions). Seriously, people value their own wealth here more than they do the problems of others.TwiZtah said:
The key is to link websites that have some legitimacy. Prariepundit, heartland news, city-journal.. sorry, not credible sources. The World Health Organization smacks of a bit more credibility to anyone with half a functioning brain.Xanthious said:
I agree with the insurance side, but the bigger picture is far more grim. We do not have a national health care system in place currently, and as such many hospitals and clinics are privatized to allow for greater profit margins. Another thing that Obamacare will do is cut those profit margins to crap and enforce a standard pricing scheme. That means if you go in for an open heart surgery, and you have zero complications requiring more treatment, you will be charged a median price that is higher than you deserve to pay. At the same time the reverse is also true. By itself this isn't much of an issue, but they are also enforcing limits on doctors such as how many patients they can have, as well as the hours they keep (anyone related to a Doctor can tell you, that a Doctor pretty much works all the time if they have a full patient load.
These changes, along with the insurance plans, are intended to help the population. As such, I think it will short term. America's healtcare system will be great... for the next decade or so. The effect nobody talks about, is that Doctors specifically come to America from other countries so they can make more money. This means we lose our influx of Doctors. We also raised the prices of student loans, and consolidated them to a national loan office. So funding becomes more of an issue if you plan on going to medical school. Since Doctors retire daily (not to mention the ones being arrested by the DEA/FDA for "over prescribing") we will lose a fair share of our health care providers.
Those of you in Canada know what comes next. In a country where there is a shortage of doctors vs patients you end up only being able to treat the most sever cases in a timely manner. Everyone else will be forced to have months of delay before they can be seen. Granted America has too many hypochondriacs, we still have legitimate concerns that may not seem like emergency issues to us, but could be life threatening if left untreated.
So I guess what I'm saying is, since this passed, maybe we need an ObamaMD plan.
These changes, along with the insurance plans, are intended to help the population. As such, I think it will short term. America's healtcare system will be great... for the next decade or so. The effect nobody talks about, is that Doctors specifically come to America from other countries so they can make more money. This means we lose our influx of Doctors. We also raised the prices of student loans, and consolidated them to a national loan office. So funding becomes more of an issue if you plan on going to medical school. Since Doctors retire daily (not to mention the ones being arrested by the DEA/FDA for "over prescribing") we will lose a fair share of our health care providers.
Those of you in Canada know what comes next. In a country where there is a shortage of doctors vs patients you end up only being able to treat the most sever cases in a timely manner. Everyone else will be forced to have months of delay before they can be seen. Granted America has too many hypochondriacs, we still have legitimate concerns that may not seem like emergency issues to us, but could be life threatening if left untreated.
So I guess what I'm saying is, since this passed, maybe we need an ObamaMD plan.
Well, one reason is that there's about nine million of us, but a buttload more Americans, which means our system would be much more difficult to implement.TwiZtah said:
Plus, our system is based on evil, nasty socialism.
Naw, its more along the lines of "14 trillion dollars in debt, and rising every day"TwiZtah said:
A extra tax of "a few percent" would cripple economic growth.