What is Obamacare?

[DiMono]

People who can't afford healthcare, will be fined...

*sigh

Canada is looking better every day!

What do they do in Canada? Is it state run medical facilities or private?

State, although it's a bit of a mess right now. Centralization of the operations has resulted in hilarious wait times at any given hospital, three hours if you're lucky and two days if you're not.

I waited 20 minutes last time. It depends on what you're there for, and how busy the emergency room is. And even then, if you're bleeding or have chest pain, you go right to the front of the line. The problem is there are people who go there because they have a cold, and that adds an unnecessary drain to things.

 

[SciMal]

Snip

I don't know who you are, but thank you. That was really really fucking informative. I've seen this issue plastered all over the news, but I had no idea what the bill actually entailed other than it having something to do with health insurance.

That last point you mentioned about the "marketing" by the Republicans really reminds me of the things I don't like about the current American political situation (from my bare knowledge of it). The very idea of "Republican vs. Democrat" gives me a weird feeling because I feel like the initial ideal of having a two-party system is to have some varying viewpoints on things. However, the end result of that seems to be the creation of a completely binary system in which all Republicans must hate anything the Democrats want to do and vice versa and the average citizen is encouraged to simply pick a side. It simply strikes me as madness. Excuse my random ramblings.

I love you for teaching me about something political while being concise and to the point. <3

My pleasure.

Admittedly, you're not too far off on your intuition regarding the political parties, but it's a little more lop-sided than most can handle:



Republicans have been shifting their political spectrum to more Conservative extremes for about 30 years (at least according to Poole and Rosenthal of University of Georgia and New York University, respectively). With extremism comes the trend towards a binary "You're either with us or against us" system.

Take the info for what you will.

 

[saintdane05]

<youtube=JPZOaPg1fqo>

I love how quickly these things start.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

As a Canadian, I find it incomprehensible that it seems so many Americans will fight to the death to have to pay massive fees for proceedures that most people with a NHS would deem almost trivial. Sure, there are issues with Canada's health care service, but on the whole, in my opinion, the pros far outweigh the cons. Americans need to forget about the cold war and McCarthyism and realize socialism works well for many services.

Many Americans will fight to the death so that they aren't told what they must do.

Though admittedly, there are many more who are simply uninformed and think the government is trying to rid of or somehow undermine private insurers.

As far as socialism is concerned for every argument for it there's an equally important one against it. Hard to say who is right or wrong when practically the whole damn world is in economic crisis.

snip...

Fine, you're ignoring the whole reason why civilisation exists (grouping together makes life easier, safer and better) but I agree we're fundamentally opposed.

Could have just left it at "I agree we're fundamentally opposed." but you really had to throw the last word in there... I hate the internet sometimes.

 

[Evilpigeon]

As a Canadian, I find it incomprehensible that it seems so many Americans will fight to the death to have to pay massive fees for proceedures that most people with a NHS would deem almost trivial. Sure, there are issues with Canada's health care service, but on the whole, in my opinion, the pros far outweigh the cons. Americans need to forget about the cold war and McCarthyism and realize socialism works well for many services.

Many Americans will fight to the death so that they aren't told what they must do.

Though admittedly, there are many more who are simply uninformed and think the government is trying to rid of or somehow undermine private insurers.

As far as socialism is concerned for every argument for it there's an equally important one against it. Hard to say who is right or wrong when practically the whole damn world is in economic crisis.

snip...

Fine, you're ignoring the whole reason why civilisation exists (grouping together makes life easier, safer and better) but I agree we're fundamentally opposed.

Could have just left it at "I agree we're fundamentally opposed." but you really had to throw the last word in there... I hate the internet sometimes.

Can't help it, sorry that's the thing with strong opinions. To be fair, the worst I called you was callous, I think I'm doing pretty damn well by internet standards.

 

[omega 616]

People who can't afford healthcare, will be fined...

*sigh

Canada is looking better every day!

What do they do in Canada? Is it state run medical facilities or private?

Publicly funded health care. Or as some 'people' in the states may call it, evil socialist communism. Everyone pays a little in taxes, and you (for the most part) don't have a bill when you visit a doctor.

But who owns the hospitals? Do the Doctors work for Doctor Corp. or do they work for the state?

As far as I understand it in the UK, the NHS docs are like bin men or any other council jobs (I guess Americans would call them districts or counties) they get paid by that council.

It isn't an exactly perfect system as there is such a thing as a postcode lottery, there have been many programmes about NHS and schooling.

Person A lives in an area where he can get a drug he needs to extend his life by a few years for free, person B with the same condition but lives just a few miles away with the same condition but has to pay for the exact same drug 'cos his post code is different and that council doesn't fund that drug.

I guess in that sense we are like America but honest I would rather be constantly paying a little bit over many years and maybe never use "my share" than to suddenly get something and have to find £50,000 to feel better.

We also get eye tests, trips to the dentist for free as long as we are unemployed.

 

[Brodre]

]snip

The problem is the wait times. Don't get me wrong, I love my countries healthcare system, but it tends to get bogged down with technicalities. I'd still rather have free healthcare, but it's not perfect.

My country (Denmark) has tried to alleviate that by installing certain time frames for when you have to get treated, so when you pass that time limit for fx. cancer, you can go to a private hospital and the state will cover the cost. This has helped a bit, but there's still long lines of course =)

Still I feel that a line and taxes are better than some people not getting treated because they chose another path in life which doesn't give off that much cash.


Anyway, it's nice to get to know a bit more about obamacare =)

 

[SciMal]

I can't wait for government mandated car insurance, food services, or dating services. I think that we'll definitely be a lot better with the government telling me who to date and what car insurance I should buy.

No, all states do not require car insurance but they do require financial responsibility to operate a vehicle on the roadway. While not all states require drivers to buy Liability insurance to show financial responsibility, 49 states (plus the District of Columbia) do. New Hampshire is the only state that does not have compulsory auto insurance liability laws, as of June 2010.

So a Federally mandated auto insurance bill wouldn't change much.

The FDA is a government funded food service that protects consumers from eating potentially hazardous food. Their standards are a big reason why (while it's not recommended by any means) you can - if you so choose - eat raw bacon without getting intestinal parasites. American food is some of the safest in the world because of the FDA, and it is also the sole reason why the United States has avoided things like the Thalidomide debacle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Because the FDA doesn't regulate supplements, it's not uncommon for the producers of supplements (whether vitamins or herbal) to not follow any sort of standard procedure, which can result in stuff like this:

Protein Powder having too much heavy metals (Consumer Reports):

Supplements containing wildly variable amounts of vitamins.

Supplements based on "Herbal Remedies" which can be very dangerous: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/prevention/alternative/herbals_theheart.aspx

As for dating services?

I think you're on your own.

To me, it comes down to a very basic question: is health care a right or a privilege? I, for one, believe that it's more of a privilege and so I generally disagree with Obamacare.

This is pretty much the core of the issue. Some people have different ideas of what healthcare is or should be.

Luckily, we live in a Democracy where people can vote to elect people who will hopefully act or not-act on certain issues.

This contradicts what Obama said numerous times during his campaign. Both Obamacare's survival and it's rewording are going to hit his campaign hard in the next few months.

Obama never said he wouldn't raise taxes. Even if he did, every other President who has made similar claims also broke their promises.

Obama did say, once, that Obamacare wasn't a tax - but hasn't explicitly said it wasn't since.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

May I suggest that all these people who are ready to pack up and go to Canada are the same ones who are mad as hell at 'all these damn Mexicans coming into America!' ?

I'd also suggest that when that damn muslim socialist president is taking away your freedoms to die horribly, it's one of those freedoms you can live without.

I get the feeling that people have been so sold by Romney that Obama's stealing something in some way, that they'd happily have a leg amputated, if only they could be sure that someone poorer than them is having both off.

Stop worrying that other people are benefiting from Obamacare and look into what advantages there are for you.

I do accept that, if it's true and you're going to get fined for not having enough money, then that's idiotic. If however, you're being made to choose between healthcare and donuts n beer, then that's different.

 

[Dangit2019]

Why in the fuck don't they just go with the scandinavian system (I think it is the whole of scandinavia) and tax everyone a few percent and then everyone gets free healthcare. If your medicine costs go over about 1000 SEK (about 140$) you get that money back and won't have to pay for medicine or hospital. Why would anyone have anything against a system like this?

Oh wait, Republicans... Why are they still alive?

Because Republicans believe that taxes were invented by the Devil (and Democrats are his minions). Seriously, people value their own wealth here more than they do the problems of others.

 

[Pandabearparade]

Yep I am pretty sure. . . . . and can link websites too!

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2007/01/01/canadians-wait-longer-medical-care

http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2008/03/horrors-of-rationed-health-care-in.html

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/41396

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

The key is to link websites that have some legitimacy. Prariepundit, heartland news, city-journal.. sorry, not credible sources. The World Health Organization smacks of a bit more credibility to anyone with half a functioning brain.

 

[barbzilla]

I agree with the insurance side, but the bigger picture is far more grim. We do not have a national health care system in place currently, and as such many hospitals and clinics are privatized to allow for greater profit margins. Another thing that Obamacare will do is cut those profit margins to crap and enforce a standard pricing scheme. That means if you go in for an open heart surgery, and you have zero complications requiring more treatment, you will be charged a median price that is higher than you deserve to pay. At the same time the reverse is also true. By itself this isn't much of an issue, but they are also enforcing limits on doctors such as how many patients they can have, as well as the hours they keep (anyone related to a Doctor can tell you, that a Doctor pretty much works all the time if they have a full patient load.

These changes, along with the insurance plans, are intended to help the population. As such, I think it will short term. America's healtcare system will be great... for the next decade or so. The effect nobody talks about, is that Doctors specifically come to America from other countries so they can make more money. This means we lose our influx of Doctors. We also raised the prices of student loans, and consolidated them to a national loan office. So funding becomes more of an issue if you plan on going to medical school. Since Doctors retire daily (not to mention the ones being arrested by the DEA/FDA for "over prescribing") we will lose a fair share of our health care providers.

Those of you in Canada know what comes next. In a country where there is a shortage of doctors vs patients you end up only being able to treat the most sever cases in a timely manner. Everyone else will be forced to have months of delay before they can be seen. Granted America has too many hypochondriacs, we still have legitimate concerns that may not seem like emergency issues to us, but could be life threatening if left untreated.

So I guess what I'm saying is, since this passed, maybe we need an ObamaMD plan.

 

[Muspelheim]

Why in the fuck don't they just go with the scandinavian system (I think it is the whole of scandinavia) and tax everyone a few percent and then everyone gets free healthcare. If your medicine costs go over about 1000 SEK (about 140$) you get that money back and won't have to pay for medicine or hospital. Why would anyone have anything against a system like this?

Oh wait, Republicans... Why are they still alive?

Well, one reason is that there's about nine million of us, but a buttload more Americans, which means our system would be much more difficult to implement.

Plus, our system is based on evil, nasty socialism.

 

[Edible Avatar]

Why in the fuck don't they just go with the scandinavian system (I think it is the whole of scandinavia) and tax everyone a few percent and then everyone gets free healthcare. If your medicine costs go over about 1000 SEK (about 140$) you get that money back and won't have to pay for medicine or hospital. Why would anyone have anything against a system like this?

Oh wait, Republicans... Why are they still alive?

Naw, its more along the lines of "14 trillion dollars in debt, and rising every day"
A extra tax of "a few percent" would cripple economic growth.

 

[DaRigger420]

Anyone looking at the $190 fine needs to take a closer look.
It goes up in 2016 to $695 or 2.5% of your income, whichever is greater.

If you can't afford insurance now, how can you afford a $700 fine (or more) on the same pay?

If an employer is found (by the government who collects the money) to not have a complient program, they will be fined anywhere from $100/day to $2000 per employee.

Can you say goodbye small mom and pop businesses?

We are ALREADY paying into the program but will not recieve any benefits untill 2014.
That equals paying in for 10 years for only 6 years of services.

Sorry, I expect to recieve items/services at the time I pay for them, not years later.

And as for those saying that it is now going to be handled through the Tax Code so don't worry, do you really want your healthcare handled by the IRS?
Saying they dont have th eability to inforce this doesn't take into account the 1600 new agents they have just hired and (oh yeah) ARMED with military grade weapons.

I can see it now, to get your preexisting condition treated you have to fill out form 1040Bio, subtract your age, add the cost of treatment, refer to a table in the back of a booklet and after mailing it all in find that you figured it wrong and are only going to be issued some pain meds so you cant feel the cancer eating your body to death.

These are only a few items.
Folks need to look deeper into the 2700 pages of this bloated beast of a law, but they will no tbe allowed to see the whole thing.
To quote the people who came up with it "We had to first PASS the Law to be able to find out what is IN the Law."

I don't know about all of you, but even to my 13 year old niece obamacare stinks like last weeks sushi in the sahara.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

What's ironic is that people very broadly support each individual tenet of Obamacare, but thanks to a very strong 'marketing' push last year by Republicans (including the 'Obamacare' monicker), most people somehow dislike "Obamacare" but love what it does when dissociated from the word.

Yeah, it's funny what propaganda can do to you.
I would rather we just skip to the socialist system where the government provides free healthcare, but this is a step in the right direction.

Republicans and FOX news try to shove stuff down peoples throats about how public healthcare kills everyone, "Oh what's that you need an operation? Well, you'll die two years before we can cure you!" Not.
Why are we ranked so low in medical care? I think Australia is above us, and they have SNAKE EATING SPIDERS, AND EVERY POISONOUS THING KNOWN TO MAN IN THEIR COUNTRY!
I mean, the platypus is even poisonous! They still have a lower chance of death in the 16-60 catagory. Dafuq?

 

[Aulleas123]

FYI, the first part of what I wrote was somewhat tongue and cheek. But you definitely speak the truth, the government does have a lot of control over what we eat and our car insurance.

This contradicts what Obama said numerous times during his campaign. Both Obamacare's survival and it's rewording are going to hit his campaign hard in the next few months.

Obama never said he wouldn't raise taxes. Even if he did, every other President who has made similar claims also broke their promises.

Obama did say, once, that Obamacare wasn't a tax - but hasn't explicitly said it wasn't since.

As for this, Obama did state that he was not going to raise taxes for households under $250k a year in response to allegations that he was going to raise taxes if president.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8erePM8V5U - presented September 12, 2012 (video posted in February of 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=k8R7XqFd17A - Taking the president both on the campaign in 2008 and in the office, discussing health care

All I'm saying is that the president did make a very clear promise and this ruling violates that. If he wants to keep to his promise, then he should attempt to rework the bill, however I'm skeptical that he will do this.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Republicans and FOX news try to shove stuff down peoples throats about how public healthcare kills everyone, "Oh what's that you need an operation? Well, you'll die two years before we can cure you!" Not.
Why are we ranked so low in medical care? I think Australia is above us, and they have SNAKE EATING SPIDERS, AND EVERY POISONOUS THING KNOWN TO MAN IN THEIR COUNTRY!
I mean, the platypus is even poisonous! They still have a lower chance of death in the 16-60 catagory. Dafuq?

Presumably most of the Australian politicians and media personalities actively out to destroy the country were eaten. The US needs to import more dangerous animals and mail them to Republicans, I guess.

 

[Aprilgold]

I was on Failblog just now for my daily giggle and there were a lot of things on there relating to Obamacare but, being from the UK, I've not heard anything about it. It seems to be a subject of a lot of debate whether or not it is a good idea but...what is it?

Essentially it creates Health-Care for people who can't actually afford Health-Care. A lot of people on the Republican side say that "The government should not interfere with our health coverage" but, as most stereotypes and people show. This is the old, white men and women saying this.

One of the republican candidates recently said that he would work to appeal Obama Care. My father was in the car and the first thing I said about this was "Because fuck the poor". Oh I'm sorry little Tiny Tim. Are both your legs broken? Well Mr. President just got rid of coverage that would help you heal better, so your just going to have to sport these neat little crutches for your whole entire life. Ya see? They have little spinners on them.

The biggest problem about Obamacare is the fact that it raises the taxes but in honesty we were needing this to happen, granted not to poor people but to the old, super rich guys who can afford seven brand-new-hummers and a years worth of gas for each one.

In conclusion, while this is a major step up from our old health care, its not as good as others yet.

Why in the fuck don't they just go with the scandinavian system (I think it is the whole of scandinavia) and tax everyone a few percent and then everyone gets free healthcare. If your medicine costs go over about 1000 SEK (about 140$) you get that money back and won't have to pay for medicine or hospital. Why would anyone have anything against a system like this?

Oh wait, Republicans... Why are they still alive?

Well, for every one person that dies of age then seven more will come to that age.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama-Care is a step up from our old healthcare, but certainly isn't as good as other places.

Also, fuck you republic candidates that want to take Obamacare out of action. You may have never understood what its like to be poor but nothing sucks more then being denied the ability to get your limb you broke from a fall healed up because you can't afford to pay out-of-pocket for it, lose your job due to the broken limb then end up as a hobo because of losing everything because of one, smedging broken limb.

That is why one of my brothers friends had to come live with us. He broke his leg, barely afforded to get it fixed up but lost his job because of it, gets kicked out of his Sisters house because his parents died in a car-crash and we had to give him a place to stay and I would be damned if we didn't. Poor mate, that must have been a tough year.

 

[runic knight]

Why in the fuck don't they just go with the scandinavian system (I think it is the whole of scandinavia) and tax everyone a few percent and then everyone gets free healthcare. If your medicine costs go over about 1000 SEK (about 140$) you get that money back and won't have to pay for medicine or hospital. Why would anyone have anything against a system like this?

Oh wait, Republicans... Why are they still alive?

Naw, its more along the lines of "14 trillion dollars in debt, and rising every day"
A extra tax of "a few percent" would cripple economic growth.

As opposed to the in-place infrastructure that removes disposable income from the majority of americans in order to accumulate wealth into the top tier fraction of the nation, who do not encourage growth to the same degree, since the decrease in demand (thanks to lack of disposable income) means even though they have the money, they are less likely to invest in in productions, instead preferring to deal with banks and investing in established companies, be damned how that affects our economic growth?

Yeah...I'd rather more people be more willing to spend then live with the constant fear that any injury will bankrupt them. Demand tends to be what fuels growth after all...