What is Obamacare?

[Treewarf]

This is a bit off topic, but I saw this image posted on the official facebook page for Ohio's governor John Kasich. Unfortunately I cannot find the photo the website that published it (its a very poorly put together .gov site) See if you can find a difference in what the poster claims, and what the graph it displays shows. It is posters like this that evidence why nobody in America properly understands Obamacare, and it should not be legal for a government institution to display such blatantly misleading posters.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150872698020933&set=a.10150241036600933.328337.77590795932&type=1

 

[Dryk]

While you don't have a bill though, the health care system in Canada...kinda...really sucks. The wait times are huge even for simple visits and the doctors tend to be highly rushed and stressed. Most visits come down to 'What are your symptoms? Here's a prescription". And that's for a simple visit. If you have more complex issues, like cancer, people have died waiting to get in to see a specialist.

We have pretty long waiting times in Australia too (4-6 hours is pretty common, especially at night), in public hospitals anyway.

I've really never been able to fathom how people can be against something like this unless they were both quite selfish and thought they were going to lose out monetarily.

Yeah, I've never been able to understand that sentiment either.

That last point you mentioned about the "marketing" by the Republicans really reminds me of the things I don't like about the current American political situation (from my bare knowledge of it). The very idea of "Republican vs. Democrat" gives me a weird feeling because I feel like the initial ideal of having a two-party system is to have some varying viewpoints on things. However, the end result of that seems to be the creation of a completely binary system in which all Republicans must hate anything the Democrats want to do and vice versa and the average citizen is encouraged to simply pick a side. It simply strikes me as madness. Excuse my random ramblings.

We're having the same problem, a whole bunch of asylum seekers just died and both the government and oppositions responses can be summed up as "Yeah, we should work towards a compromise on this" "You first"

HBut since everything in America must be profit-driven, that's never going to fly down there, because the GOP has put it in people's minds that getting health care without paying an arm and a leg for it is somehow a bad thing.

I see what you did there

 

[GoddyofAus]

What is Obamacare? The sanist thing to happen to the United States in a VERY long time.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Obamacare has a few major parts to it.

First off Insurance Companies can no longer deny you service because of a pre-existing condition.

It's for that reason alone I begrudgingly support it. You know how hard it is to get good insurance when you have hemophilia?

In the year 2014 you will be required to get health insurance or be forced to pay a fine (I think its $190).

If you do not get private insurance you can get health insurance through your state. This is because your state is required to offer you 3 different levels of coverage at "reasonable" prices.

Theres a bunch more, but thats what I know off the top of my head. You should try wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

Oh I am an American... though I work at a news station so I saw Obama's Speech yesterday.

... Sometimes I feel like Obama just WANTS to make this pill as hard to swallow as possible. Well he and his cabinet, I'm sure it's not JUST him.

I mean, what do they do if you can't AFFORD the health care? Still try to fine you? Trying to squeeze blood from a stone, yeah?

-shrug- Don't kill the messenger. I don't exactly agree with all of it either.

If you can't afford, it based on how much you make a year, then you don't have to buy it. There are certain groups of people (ie the poor, prisoners, etc) who can opt out of it or are not included.

Ah well there yeah go. Thanks for the Info.

 

[Do4600]

Simply put, it's a collection of things that nearly everybody in my country wants but hates because the television told them to.

 

[SanguineScale]

This is probably the most civil discussion of this issue i have seen anywhere.

I know right? It's kind of weird actually. I'm so used to the knee-jerk flame wars around this.... This thread feels like a calm, air-conditioned debate hall, rather than a high school cafeteria during a food fight.....

 

[Stripes]

People who can't afford healthcare, will be fined...

*sigh

Canada is looking better every day!

What do they do in Canada? Is it state run medical facilities or private?

Publicly funded health care. Or as some 'people' in the states may call it, evil socialist communism. Everyone pays a little in taxes, and you (for the most part) don't have a bill when you visit a doctor.

While you don't have a bill though, the health care system in Canada...kinda...really sucks. The wait times are huge even for simple visits and the doctors tend to be highly rushed and stressed. Most visits come down to 'What are your symptoms? Here's a prescription". And that's for a simple visit. If you have more complex issues, like cancer, people have died waiting to get in to see a specialist.

Because all those people who could be seen in the states yet die because they cant afford it are so much better off. People against nationalisation of healthcare always try and highlight the horror stories when the fact of the matter is it tends to be a highly efficient service. For example: people opposed to anything like the NHS or whatever you call it in Canada argued that Steven Hawking would have died on the NHS had he been British, he is British and says he owes his life to the NHS. Just an idea of the lies people are fed over this.

In the UK we have the NHS, one of the most efficient services in the world (considering the amount of funding compared to population id say its an impressive feat). We have some horror stories but look at it this way, no one faces bankruptcy over the costs of treating illness. Furthermore private healthcare is much much cheaper than in the USA because it faces some real competition rather than the oligopolies in fully privatised markets.

From personal experience of a similar service I can tell you that wait times are rarely longer than in the private market in the US for urgent treatment. Whilst you might get a slightly better service, though having life support denied once you could no longer afford it from your funds/your insurer found a way to excuse themselves from paying doesnt strike me as a good service, in terms of waiting times you will be sorely out of pocket and thats if you can afford it. Plus, would you really want your welfare in the hands of someone whos main interest is profiting from you, especially when they get paid when you need treatment not when you dont?

 

[Elamdri]

People who can't afford healthcare, will be fined...

*sigh

Canada is looking better every day!

People who can't afford the healthcare system will be able to qualify for an exemption to the tax for not having healthcare. Those who don't qualify for an exemption but are too poor to be able to afford health insurance on their own may qualify for government subsidies. So no, it's not fining people who can't afford healthcare.

 

[BaronUberstein]

This [http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare_and_what_did_it/c530lfx] explains it better than I ever could. You only get taxed for not having insurance if you can afford it, but don't want it. If you can't afford it you are exempt from the tax.

Spoiler: Proof

EXEMPTIONS.?No penalty shall be imposed under subsection (a) with respect to?
??(1) INDIVIDUALS WHO CANNOT AFFORD COVERAGE.?
??(A) IN GENERAL.?
Any applicable individual for any month if the applicable individual?s required contribution (determined on an annual basis) for coverage for the month exceeds 8 percent of such individual?s household income for the taxable year described in section 1412(b)(1)(B) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. For purposes of applying this subparagraph, the taxpayer?s household income shall be increased by any exclusion from gross income for any portion of the required contribution made through a salary reduction arrangement

Oh wonderful, a summery that explains it in simple terms!

I'll be reading this over the weekend for sure. Sometimes I like having things explained to me like a 5 year old...seriously, it can help with these hideously complicated government bills.

 

[runic knight]

Why in the fuck don't they just go with the scandinavian system (I think it is the whole of scandinavia) and tax everyone a few percent and then everyone gets free healthcare. If your medicine costs go over about 1000 SEK (about 140$) you get that money back and won't have to pay for medicine or hospital. Why would anyone have anything against a system like this?

Oh wait, Republicans... Why are they still alive?

Naw, its more along the lines of "14 trillion dollars in debt, and rising every day"
A extra tax of "a few percent" would cripple economic growth.

As opposed to the in-place infrastructure that removes disposable income from the majority of americans in order to accumulate wealth into the top tier fraction of the nation, who do not encourage growth to the same degree, since the decrease in demand (thanks to lack of disposable income) means even though they have the money, they are less likely to invest in in productions, instead preferring to deal with banks and investing in established companies, be damned how that affects our economic growth?

Yeah...I'd rather more people be more willing to spend then live with the constant fear that any injury will bankrupt them. Demand tends to be what fuels growth after all...

I didn't say i liked the current situation, but that's where we are. America is strapped for cash, that's part of the reason that this bill is meeting resistance. How will the US pay for these changes? I don't know

I don't either, though I do dislike the notion of passing the buck off to the next generation like every generation before us has done. I'd rather grit my teeth, get this in place (Maybe raise taxes on the upper 10% of income bracket disproportionately), and get some resolution on health care. the longer we drag our feet and try to impose this worse of all worlds approach, the worse it will be in the long run and the worse it will be now.
To be honest, I doubt it is the cash part that people dislike the most. The republican echo chamber and misinformation machine is the primary reason. From Palin's "death panels" to Rush's constant fear mongering to Romney's pandering to the right's fringe...I just can't believe it is a matter of worry about cost that causes popular opinion to be against it so much. The average american is not that aware of the political system and the goings on there-in. Instead they listen to the news and politicians and gauge opinions based on their rhetoric. and when they blatantly lie about things... well, as someone else brought up, the main reason people are against obamacare is because it is CALLED obama care, with all the BS lied about attached to it.

"know your rights"? I do capcha, I do...

 

[Evilpigeon]

Yes, I did read his comment. It's not charity and the whole point of a government is to babysit you.

Government exists to enforce rules and standards, in other words to turn an anarchy into a society. To do this it actually has to look after the people in its society (what do you think laws are for, do you count them as charity as well? How about roads, state funded schooling, public sector jobs etc...).

In a functional society people have basic rights and priviledges, I'd say that the right to be generally healthy is fairly central to the whole concept of a functioning society. You're entitled to your own opinion on the matter of course, I'd just call it extremely callous.

It's not as callous as it is practical. The government's job isn't to feed us, it's to make sure that food of a reasonable quality is being produced at an affordable rate for everyone in the country to eat. This healthcare system (which I admit I'm woefully ignorant of) seems like the government handing us our meals instead of just making sure we can get our own meals.

Over the last 2 years, I've been unemployed or working for minimum wage. I don't have a lot of extra spending cash. One of my saving graces is that I don't need to visit the doctor almost ever. Being forced to spend money on insurance kinda pisses me off. Not enough to directly oppose Obamacare, but I don't see it as the right solution. It seems to me the right solution would have pissed off Big Business (insurance companies), and so the laws were made to not piss them off.

Whilst it's rare that literally handing out food becomes the answer to the governments duty of care (I hate to put it like that due to the connotations you're going to read into it) there is a reason why the government gives out benefits.

The government's job is to feed us

Is the same as:

It's to make sure that food of a reasonable quality is being produced at an affordable rate for everyone in the country to eat.

It's nitpicking really. That you're allowed to choose not to eat is up to you but making food affordable and available for everyone is the same as feeding everyone. You will only have to spend money on Obamacare is you can afford to do so. I absolutely agree with you though: The idea was warped so as to annoy health insurance providers less, it's flawed but it'll still help a lot more than it's going to hurt.

Maybe the US will get a good system going eventually, for the amount they spend (I posted a link a few pages back, the gist was the government spends twice as much for worse results nationally in terms of life expectancy and a few other catagories) they could probably have a better national healthcare system than most other countries.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I think it's like a baby sitting service, where people hire clones of Obama to look after their kids

 

[MyNameIsNowNotMyName]

To avoid a flame war, I shall just say it is the new Healthcare system being implimanted by the President. Both good and bad will come from it.

That is all I am going to say. Goodbye.

By trying to avoid a flame war you just stated the obvious. Oh well, all I know is that +what everyone else says, it forces you to have healthcare, but some people can only get shitty healthcare to begin with.

 

[BlueMage]

Obamacare is basically the American version of a universal healthcare system, which is a government alternative to private health insurances. With approximately 45 million Americans without any health insurance at all, it's about time really.

Universal healthcare is, in my opinion, a human right which is also way it's utilized in virtually any developed country in the world. America has finally been added to that list.

Exactly. America finally joins the rest of the civilised world in no longer forcing people to choose between seeing a doctor or paying the rent.

We have pretty long waiting times in Australia too (4-6 hours is pretty common, especially at night), in public hospitals anyway.

Truly sir? I work at the Royal Brisbane. When I went to the ER complaining of pain around my right eye, I was seen to in less than 20 minutes. Hell, I hadn't even gotten into the swing of one of my favourite apps.

 

[Dryk]

Truly sir? I work at the Royal Brisbane. When I went to the ER complaining of pain around my right eye, I was seen to in less than 20 minutes. Hell, I hadn't even gotten into the swing of one of my favourite apps.

Maybe just Adelaidean public hospitals then, or maybe my family and friends have awful luck.

 

[Wicky_42]

People who can't afford healthcare, will be fined...

*sigh

Canada is looking better every day!

You are looking at this all wrong. You see yeah sure there is a tax. However, unlike every other tax on the books this tax can not be enforced through liens and seizures and non compliance will not be subject to criminal penalties. This reduces the associated tax to something akin to the charity stands that sell 50 cent lolipops on the honor system. This is a good thing I promise.

Just think about it. You can go without healthcare and ignore the penalty, because the IRS is powerless to enforce it under the law, then when the time comes you need insurance (I suggest waiting until you are in the back of an ambulance personally. No need to waste money after all) you just sign up then since you can't be denied for pre existing conditions. Then if you can't find a private company that will insure your sickly self for a price you deem fit you can simply turn to the government.

Hell, this is awesome news if you ask me. I can go totally uninsured while thumbing my nose at the tax penalty with no worry that I will be able to pick up some insurance should the time come when I need it. Hooray socialism!

. . . . Of course this is all under the presumption this thing stays around long enough to be put into law, which I think is a bit less likely than most people think. First the actual tax can be brought in front of the courts. You see you can't sue the government over an unlawful tax until you actually pay it so you can bet people are salivating to pay that thing to get Obamacare back in front of the courts. Then once it gets back in front of the courts again who the hell knows how that will turn out. However, even that won't be needed if Romney (aka the lesser of two evils) gets elected as I would wager doing away with Obamacare is number 1 through 101 on his list of things to do if elected.

... But, why don't you want socialised healthcare? You just talked through a scheme that would allow you to get as much medical care as you needed for, at most $190, and yet for some reason you think this is a bad thing whilst people in the States go bankrupt trying to pay for a broken arm or dialysis! If the US can provide universal healthcare for as little as $190 a year tax per citizen, why would you oppose that?! It boggles my mind that people can be so introverted as to think that it's a bad thing...

 

[AMMO Kid]

EDIT: Forget it. I don't want to get into this discussion.

 

[SteamboaTravis]

Obamacare is a term coined by the conservative advocacy group Freedomworks used to make Pres. Obama's unpopularity among conservatives the central issue in the healthcare debate.

 

[ShadowKatt]

From personal experience of a similar service I can tell you that wait times are rarely longer than in the private market in the US for urgent treatment. Whilst you might get a slightly better service, though having life support denied once you could no longer afford it from your funds/your insurer found a way to excuse themselves from paying doesnt strike me as a good service, in terms of waiting times you will be sorely out of pocket and thats if you can afford it. Plus, would you really want your welfare in the hands of someone whos main interest is profiting from you, especially when they get paid when you need treatment not when you dont?

Yes, because that's TOTALLY how US health care goes. If you have a heart attack and you're on life support, you have until the money runs out or they pull the plug on you. And that's if you even get that far, because if you stumble into the ER in the middle of a coronary and forget your wallet at home, they'll just leave you to die in the middle of the hallway.

You wanna talk about horror stories in other countries, I know what other countries think of our health care system. I'm not that ignorant. But people seem to forget that just because america is capitalist doesn't mean that we threw out every last shred of decency and morality. Hospitals are mandated and doctors take an oath to help those in need, and any person that walks into a hospital in the US and needs treatment GETS IT. That would be why the US doesn't have people dying in the streets. The only think you can be turned away for in a hospital is if you come in with the sniffles because it's not life threatening. And if it becomes an issue later on that requires treatment, they'll take care of it then.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

Frankly, I don't like it because it's going to be extremely taxing for doctors. We're expected to take on hundreds more patients, considerably restricting our time with current patients and lessening patient care, but cheapening it at the same time, making more people want to go to the doctor for stupid things, lengthening lines to the ER, etc.