What is the "Citizen Kane" of Video Games?

[Bad Jim]

[~snip~

PS2 is backwards compatible, you've got to get MGS1 and play it. Quickly, here may still be time to undo the damage done by MGS2! You can also download it for PSP, that version seems good enough, what are you waiting for? Graphics don't matter, this game nails it in every way a game needs to be great! You'll see what I mean by Citizen Kane of gaming.

MGS1 should be required gaming if you want to have any dialogue about game narratives.

Perhaps you should mention to this PC gamer that there was a PC version and it was pretty good. There are a few tiny things missing but you can set a higher screen resolution, which is a reasonable tradeoff IMO. PC conversion of MGS2 was trash though.
____________________________________________________________

Back on topic, the movie industry has always been dominated by big companies with big budgets, so the number of movies would always be fairly small. Thus, it is not terribly surprising that one movie should show a large amount of innovation.

Video games, on the other hand, were only dominated by big players at roughly the turn of the millenium. In the 80s, many top games were made by students and one man studios. You still got plenty of innovation, it was just spread over a larger number of games.

I don't see the lack of a 'Citizen Kane' to be a problem. Games have developed quite well without one and the craft has advanced a lot. Books don't really have a 'Citizen Kane' either.

 

[Treblaine]

[~snip~

PS2 is backwards compatible, you've got to get MGS1 and play it. Quickly, here may still be time to undo the damage done by MGS2! You can also download it for PSP, that version seems good enough, what are you waiting for? Graphics don't matter, this game nails it in every way a game needs to be great! You'll see what I mean by Citizen Kane of gaming.

MGS1 should be required gaming if you want to have any dialogue about game narratives.

Perhaps you should mention to this PC gamer that there was a PC version and it was pretty good. There are a few tiny things missing but you can set a higher screen resolution, which is a reasonable tradeoff IMO. PC conversion of MGS2 was trash though.

Thanks for the recommendation, but unfortunately I couldn't recommend that as I don't know enough about that version so couldn't really recommend it myself.

What was it missing by the way? Items? Boss fights? Certain cutscenes?

 

[Treblaine]

The problem, as you've seen, is that Citizen Kane despite being an astounding movie, doesn't always rank as a number one film. It's basic premise, that of a valiant man torn down by his own hubris, has been repeated many many times; and CK itself is not without its gaping plot holes.

Spoiler

Who actually heard him say "Rosebud"? There was no-one around who could have.

Actually that scene was a way of showing that Kane saying rosebud was part of a fantasy, and the guy who claimed to know about rosebud only said he said it for money.

Duh duh DAAAAAH!

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Animal Crossing is the Citizen Kane of video games

 

[shadyh8er]

Citizen Kane is the Citizen Kane of movies because it was the first to use the the unique technical attributes of the medium in an expressive way that enhanced the power of the narrative, and in doing so invented modern film. The only time I've seen this happen with games, where the way the game was played was connected with the story in a way that made the story have a greater impact was "would you kindly" in Bioshock, which was probably the single greatest moment of creative genius that I have ever seen in a game.

Hmmm. Well-said, I agree.

Oh, and Citizen Kane is hailed as the best AMERICAN movie made. Matter of fact that's one of the qualifications to appear on the AFI's list.

 

[seraphmaclay]

Simply put, it doesn't exist yet. I'd like to say it did loving games as I do, but as of yet, we're still in the pulp serials of the 1920's and 30's equivalent phase. Essentially, the way I see it, gaming has progressed in a very similar fashion to the way film did. At the beginning, they were very simplistic...maybe one or two things, very short. No where is this more apparent than Pong and "Sallie Gardner at a Gallop". Things in the seventies and eighties slowly progressed till we got to early silent film. Here, Mario is Charlie Chaplin. I can't really better word the equivalence than at that point. Slowly, film and games added voices, something many games are having trouble with. By all counts, games are nearing the point where we will see things reminiscent of Citizen Kane, The Ten Commandments, The Wizard of Oz, or even, Gone With The Wind...but we haven't reached that point yet. How soon is really relative, but once we do...oh hell, the rapid progression we'll have in the way games can tell stories will be phenomenal.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

When it happens we'll know it.

 

[Bad Jim]

What was it missing by the way? Items? Boss fights? Certain cutscenes?

Spoiler

Psycho Mantis doesn't look at your memory card and comment on the save files. The joypad swapping thing is replaced by putting down the joypad and using the keys instead, which you were probably using anyway, which spoils the puzzle. He doesn't blank the screen or make your joypad rumble either, though I think the game does support force feedback.

That's about it as far as I am aware. Just a few console specific jokes that wouldn't work on a PC.

 

[TailsRodrigez]

The problem, as you've seen, is that Citizen Kane despite being an astounding movie, doesn't always rank as a number one film. It's basic premise, that of a valiant man torn down by his own hubris, has been repeated many many times; and CK itself is not without its gaping plot holes.

Spoiler

Who actually heard him say "Rosebud"? There was no-one around who could have.

Actually that scene was a way of showing that Kane saying rosebud was part of a fantasy, and the guy who claimed to know about rosebud only said he said it for money.

Duh duh DAAAAAH!

the opening scene of Kane dying is a fantasy, not Rosebud itself.

 

[Metaknight55]

The only game I'd consider as the CK of games would be Shadow of the Colossus. Not because it is the best game out there, only because it is one of the classiest and most sophisticated examples of video games as art.

 

[almostgold]

For all of you who do not know, Citizen Kane is often regarded as the greatest film of all time and was one of the first films to be universally recognized as Art. Has their been a game like this? If so, what was the game and explain it's impact on Video Games as an art form.

You are asking for a game that truly shows itself as an art. Frankly, I don't think we've had any game that even comes close to that point. And tho i do theorize it will be possible to make a game worthy of art, I think it will be difficult as fuck for any game to get to that point- not just the first artworthy game, but every artworthy game to ever be attempted will be hell to create. to quote Roger Ebert,
<quote=Roger Ebert>There is a structural reason for that: Video games by their nature require player choices, which is the opposite of the strategy of serious film and literature, which requires authorial control.
Tho I believe there is a small possibility we'll someday create true videogame art, it won't be easy. But videogames as a medium are still in its infancy, so we likely have room to grow. When films as a medium were in their infancy in the early 20th century during the silent film era, and even part of the beginning of the era of sound in films, its fairly clear that they still had not yet mastered their medium. The films that came out in these periods were far from art, and quite immature in their true nature. And just as the early medium of film, video games are still at a very immature age. Game designers are still only just beginning to play with ideas of how to use the medium, and are still just beginning to grow in technique.

I think that years from now, the videogames of today will be viewed in the same light as how we view the early silent films today. I'm excited to see where this medium will take us once it has truly matured.

This post is awesome. Congrats sir.

 

[Layz92]

Baldur's Gate if I had to choose one. One of the best games I have played and a whole lot of room for choice. And quite a number of fun characters.

 

[ChupathingyX]

I never understood how Citizen Kane is the greatest movie of all time. To me it's just like games, no game or movie is perfect unless they include all genres and do them all perfectly. If a game or movie is perfect then shouldn't everyone love it?

Does Citizen Kane have awesome kung fu fight scenes? Or giant radioactive monsers? Or hilarious comedy?

 

[lacktheknack]

It's a toss up between Silent Hill 2's incredible characterization and psychological messing around or Day of the Tentacle's loony excellence.

 

[nokori3byo]

I'm inclined to say Portal, which was probably the only perfect game I've ever played and a major innovator to boot(though not, by any means, my favourite game of this generation). That comment about the "would you kindly" bit in Bioshock was also right on the money, though I thought it was a brilliant pearl wrapped in a flawed game.

(edited once for spelling)

 

[Judgmentalist]

First, let me just give my take on Citizen Kane. I don't think it's regarded as the greatest film of all time. If you watch it today, you will probably be able to enjoy it but more so you will appreciate what it did for movies as a medium, and you will be able to appreciate its mastery of cinematic techniques: lighting, cuts, etc. I think there are a lot of movies that have come out since that are hailed as better (in IMDB's top 250 movies of all time, Citizen Kane doesn't even make the top 25.)

Yes. Because the world cares what the random paying dicks on IMDB think. It's still the AFI's #1, so maybe we should leave it at that.

As a semi-distant observer, Final Fantasy VII seems to be the hallmark of bygone perfection and success every other game tries to live up to, not the least of which are FF's descendants themselves. The music, the story, the fact that the characters have some types of personalities and storylines of their own, the changing story arc, the benchmark animation, it's all of a package that, even to the most jaded of gamers, still reminds anyone playing what the medium itself can accomplish in the right hands.

 

[nokori3byo]

Simply put, it doesn't exist yet. I'd like to say it did loving games as I do, but as of yet, we're still in the pulp serials of the 1920's and 30's equivalent phase. Essentially, the way I see it, gaming has progressed in a very similar fashion to the way film did. At the beginning, they were very simplistic...maybe one or two things, very short. No where is this more apparent than Pong and "Sallie Gardner at a Gallop". Things in the seventies and eighties slowly progressed till we got to early silent film. Here, Mario is Charlie Chaplin. I can't really better word the equivalence than at that point. Slowly, film and games added voices, something many games are having trouble with. By all counts, games are nearing the point where we will see things reminiscent of Citizen Kane, The Ten Commandments, The Wizard of Oz, or even, Gone With The Wind...but we haven't reached that point yet. How soon is really relative, but once we do...oh hell, the rapid progression we'll have in the way games can tell stories will be phenomenal.

You make a valid point, but for me, the fact that games are still evolving into an art form is part of what gives them their appeal. Each year brings new innovations on the road to a fuller, deeper gaming experience, and I still have a lot of room to be amazed at what the future holds. I remember the moment when I first dropped onto the deck of the cargo ship in COD4 and machine gunned those guys in the control room. It took my breath away. I immediately realized that action films would have to start working a lot harder to bring the visceral thrills or risk irrelevance. While the game itself is far from perfect, with whole segments marred by lazy design, it opened my eyes to ways in which gaming could surpass cinema, not simply achieve parity with it. The future, as you say, will be exciting.

 

[ranger19]

Spoiler: snip

First, let me just give my take on Citizen Kane. I don't think it's regarded as the greatest film of all time. If you watch it today, you will probably be able to enjoy it but more so you will appreciate what it did for movies as a medium, and you will be able to appreciate its mastery of cinematic techniques: lighting, cuts, etc. I think there are a lot of movies that have come out since that are hailed as better (in IMDB's top 250 movies of all time, Citizen Kane doesn't even make the top 25.)

Yes. Because the world cares what the random paying dicks on IMDB think. It's still the AFI's #1, so maybe we should leave it at that.

As a semi-distant observer, Final Fantasy VII seems to be the hallmark of bygone perfection and success every other game tries to live up to, not the least of which are FF's descendants themselves. The music, the story, the fact that the characters have some types of personalities and storylines of their own, the changing story arc, the benchmark animation, it's all of a package that, even to the most jaded of gamers, still reminds anyone playing what the medium itself can accomplish in the right hands.

Wow. You're the second person to pick on my use of IMDB without really explaining why. And if you had read a little further, you would have found I had already responded to such remarks.

But I'll summarize: I was just using IMDB as some basic evidence to back up what I believe is a commonly held belief: that Citizen Kane is one of the most influential movies ever, but not one of the best; many films since have built on its foundation, and few people would list Kane as their top movie to watch these days. So are you disagreeing with my claim about Kane, or just angry about IMDB and directing that anger this way because I mentioned it?

On top of that, your example would seem to agree with what I've said so far. FFVII, wonderful in its time, hasn't aged amazingly well; the graphics look clunky and don't retain the beauty of 16-bit predecessors, and the gameplay, while revolutionary at its time, has been honed since. You could even argue that this gen's popularization of WRPGs has made JRPGs more obsolete too, if you wanted. I loved FFVII, but it's not a game I would want to play much any more. (In my opinion, a better game to play today would be FFV or FFVI, one of the capstone iterations of the 2D era.)

 

[tseroff]

I didn't bother to read all these posts, as many of them seem to be ripping on Citizen Kane and I can't take that. (I'm a film student, and this movie is one of my favorites)

Out of video games, though, there are very few games that capture true character like Citizen Kane does. If I had to choose, though, I believe that BioShock is one of the most artistic games that has been released. The intuitive gameplay, fantastic artwork, and overall immersive experience make this a great all around game. However, BioShock's strength is its character. By the end of the game, you feel like you experienced the ongoing war between Ryan and Fontaine, even though you started at its end. The snippets of small, unimportant characters still add to the story, showing the effect that the two most powerful figures of Rapture had on its people.