What made Skyrim so good?

[Clive Howlitzer]

Skyrim isn't great. It is decent. I put about 90 hours into it, which might seem like a lot except I put a lot more into Morrowind and even Oblivion.
Skyrim just felt like a missed opportunity every step of the way. It seems great at first but the more you get into it, the more you realize there is no depth beyond the surface. This makes for an increasingly bland experience. I only got a lot of enjoyment out of it after I installed about 30 or so mods to improve the immersion in the game. However, since it is broken at the core level in places; there isn't much that can be done.

 

[Lethos]

Interesting advice. I'll take a look. I started Skyrim on DVD but Steam allowed me to use its utility. I'll have to look in a couple of different folders for the right ini file.

Ini should be located under My Documents/My Games/Skyrim

 

[SpAc3man]

I really enjoyed the skill system. Something I always lose interested in with RPGs is assigning points to different stats. With Skyrim the leveling system naturally progressed depending on what you actually did in the game. I didn't have an issue with chosing perks as they were very specific on what they added. It felt more like leveling abilities like one would in a MOBA game.

Also the mods. The game was good in it's stock state but the mods made it fantastic. Bethesda and Valve did a spectacular job integrating them into Steam too.

 

[SpAc3man]

EDIT: Double post

 

[gorfias]

Interesting advice. I'll take a look. I started Skyrim on DVD but Steam allowed me to use its utility. I'll have to look in a couple of different folders for the right ini file.

Ini should be located under My Documents/My Games/Skyrim

Thanks! I will take a look.

As it is, I went through the game once already and was about mid way through when I ran into this issue. I have about 150 hours into it! To contrast, Saints Row the Third was complete, with LOTS of faffing about, in more like 40. Now I'm looking for mods for Far Cry 3. I hope I spend a good 150 hours on that too.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

snip

I agree.

I've spent a lot of my time just faffing about and just wandering around the whole entire world. I have 100 hours logged in before I even started the main quest again, and I only did that because I was done with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood missions, which were a blast.

I ran into side missions from exploring that I would've never done before if I didn't do that, and I had some of the craziest shit happen to me too while dungeon crawling. Trying to fight a Dragon Priest to end the quest is really hard when a bear and dragon come and invade it your little fight. Probably my favorite side quest is where my character did a drinking contest with this guy, got completely drunk and passed out, and I had to fix the aftermath. I don't want to ruin the whole thing, but it was hilarious. XD

Lol, as I said I've played over 120 hours, and I forgot that I haven't even done the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood stuff. I've killed at least 5 Dark Brotherhood Assassins so far though.

You mean the drinking game in Whiterun? Yup, did that.

One time I was fighting a giant and a mammoth and a Dragon swooped in, picked up the giant and killed it by dropping it, did the same to the mammoth and then finally it was ready to do battle with me. I said, "thank you for taking care of those two for me", then I promptly killed him.

I've also had some funny glitches. One, one of my friend's witnessed and it was hilarious. I had just got back form turning in a quest at Dragonsreach and I was heading back to my house, when I saw something weird in the distance. It turned out that the ground under and around Warmaiden's had disappeared. I then saw the two girls in town playing tag and they both ran straight to the missing ground and dropped right out of sight. As the situation unfolded I hammed it up, I noticed the Blacksmith woman siting at and using the grindstone as she floated above the blue colored nothingness. I said, "just stay there miss, don't make any sudden movements off your seat", then she stopped what she was doing, stood up, and fell down into the nothingness, disappearing as well.

I then backed off to the right near the Drunken Huntsman, saw to my left as the guy who works for Belethor going to deliver a pile of wood to Warmaiden's. He said that oh so precious line, "I work for Belethor at the general goods store", then he continued onward as I shouted, "No don't go that way!!!", then he dropped and disappeared into the nothingness as well. After that, I said as I ran along the edge of the nothingness and into my house, "Screw Dragons!! The land underneath us is disappearing, that is the real end of the world!!" Finally, after waiting inside my house for a minute laughing(almost crying too), I poked my head outside and saw the ground was back and everybody that had fallen into the nothingness was back too, oblivious to what had just happened to them.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I know a lot of people love morrowind and content wise there's a lot there, but if you take off the nostalgia glasses it reeeeeaaaly hasn't aged well. I tried it after I had played oblivion and it looks and feels so bad to play that I couldn't do it.

Anyways, I think with all of those games the main appeal is that pretty much everything is dynamic and happens in game. Granted it's not totally realistic, but I honestly feel like bethesda games are the most consistently immersive nonlinear games on the market. At any point you can talk to, attack, pickpocket, etc anybody, and everyone seems to do things while the player isn't around. It feels like the world continues to exist around you regardless of what you do.

There are games with more compelling characters and narratives, for sure, but honestly I haven't played anything with the same openness as a bethesda game.

As for skyrim specifically? I'd just say that's a case of it being the newest one and it also has a lot to do with the fact that they're using a new engine from oblivion and fallout that just feels nicer to play.

 

[Milkman]

Skyrim is very multi-faceted. There's a lot it does right, but a lot it does wrong. There's a lot of mistakes and oversights, but it's also very ambitious and certainly has more than enough content to justify a purchase.

I can't really say if Skyrim is good or bad. In the end, it's just... big.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

snip

I agree.

I've spent a lot of my time just faffing about and just wandering around the whole entire world. I have 100 hours logged in before I even started the main quest again, and I only did that because I was done with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood missions, which were a blast.

I ran into side missions from exploring that I would've never done before if I didn't do that, and I had some of the craziest shit happen to me too while dungeon crawling. Trying to fight a Dragon Priest to end the quest is really hard when a bear and dragon come and invade it your little fight. Probably my favorite side quest is where my character did a drinking contest with this guy, got completely drunk and passed out, and I had to fix the aftermath. I don't want to ruin the whole thing, but it was hilarious. XD

Lol, as I said I've played over 120 hours, and I forgot that I haven't even done the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood stuff. I've killed at least 5 Dark Brotherhood Assassins so far though.

You mean the drinking game in Whiterun? Yup, did that.

One time I was fighting a giant and a mammoth and a Dragon swooped in, picked up the giant and killed it by dropping it, did the same to the mammoth and then finally it was ready to do battle with me. I said, "thank you for taking care of those two for me", then I promptly killed him.

I've also had some funny glitches. One, one of my friend's witnessed and it was hilarious. I had just got back form turning in a quest at Dragonsreach and I was heading back to my house, when I saw something weird in the distance. It turned out that the ground under and around Warmaiden's had disappeared. I then saw the two girls in town playing tag and they both ran straight to the missing ground and dropped right out of sight. As the situation unfolded I hammed it up, I noticed the Blacksmith woman siting at and using the grindstone as she floated above the blue colored nothingness. I said, "just stay there miss, don't make any sudden movements off your seat", then she stopped what she was doing, stood up, and fell down into the nothingness, disappearing as well.

I then backed off to the right near the Drunken Huntsman, saw to my left as the guy who works for Belethor going to deliver a pile of wood to Warmaiden's. He said that oh so precious line, "I work for Belethor at the general goods store", then he continued onward as I shouted, "No don't go that way!!!", then he dropped and disappeared into the nothingness as well. After that, I said as I ran along the edge of the nothingness and into my house, "Screw Dragons!! The land underneath us is disappearing, that is the real end of the world!!" Finally, after waiting inside my house for a minute laughing(almost crying too), I poked my head outside and saw the ground was back and everybody that had fallen into the nothingness was back too, oblivious to what had just happened to them.

There's a drinking game in Whiterun? Mine happened in Riften. Was a goat involved in that one?

Nothing like that happened for me and it seems like every time I'm fighting a dragon either a bear or a swarm (!!!) of spiders would come out the woodwork.

I've had a few funny stuff happen to me. One was where I was leaving Windhelm and I was fighting a dragon just as I left the bridge and for some reason Lydia decided to fight the city guards. So after the dragon was killed I had to kill the guards because they were now attacking me because of Lydia and her blood thirst. What sucked was that I had to go back to that city later because of a side mission, but that was now really hard because of me killing almost all of the guards.

Another time I was doing one of the quests for the Imperials and I had to go after a cart and take out some people. I decided to be all stealthy and take them out with my bow, and just as I was about done and had like three left one of the Imperial soldiers ran straight for the group I was killing and rambo'ed the whole thing. I remember just sitting there and watching the whole thing and laughing to myself because I imagined my Khajiit just sitting there in the bushes being dumbfounded. XD

The horse I got from the Dark Brotherhood is just my favorite part of the whole game because I swear that horse does not give a shit and can't die. I remember I was attacked by a frost and blood dragon at the same time and I thought I was so screwed, but my horse just attacked them and just hove punched them both to death. The dragons completely forgot about me which was a good thing because I was too busy laughing. At the very end my horse just shook itself off and just trotted over to me like, "Well that was a minor inconvenience, shall we continue on?" I've nicknamed my horse Hove Puncher after that little episode.

 

[Xdeser2]

Horrible clunky combat

I keep hearing this, but no one backs that up with examples WHY its bad. To me its fine. Not great, but more than serviceable.

OT: Honestly (for me), what makes Skyrim so good is its setting. While it's questionable whether or not Bethesda is good at designing gameplay, its undeniable that they're some of the best in the business at creating a great atmosphere. From the Music, to the general aesthetic of the world, to the expertly crafted Lore of the ES world, and there's a lot of little things (minutia)that help. It sells itself well enough to look past most of the flaws in the game in my opinion. (That's not to saw it dosen't have Flaws, It has MANY of them)

Though overall I'd say Skyrim is last on my list of Favorite TES games list, that's because of what they decided to take out that makes it feel like less of an RPG, but that's neither here nor there in this conversation.

 

[LostCrusader]

I love all of the Elder Scrolls games because of the lore for the worlds and because the games do not force you into a specific class. I really get annoyed when a game forces me into a specific role and be stuck there the whole game.

 

[Tono Makt]

Now, before someone goes ahead and says ''Another one of X thread talking about popular AAA title...'' I do not hate Skyrim. I like Skyrim, it's a good game, but am I the only one that finds it overrated?
The game has many glaring issues. From horrible clunky combat, tons of bugs, lack of impact and choices on the world *I give a Stormcloak city to the Empire...what I get are different colored guards. Even bloody Talos statues are still around*.
The game also suffers from pretty bad characters and storyline. But even then, I still enjoy it. The world they crafted is pretty awesome, and I enjoyed the new UI, and also the new organic skill system. Also, the dungeons were a much needed improvement over Oblivion, even if they still are a bit repetitive at times.

So, I ask, what do people enjoy so much about Skyrim? what makes it so good to deserve those 9's and 10's?

I'm one of those funny folk who gave Skyrim a 6 to begin with, but after a bit more playthrough and a good 6 months without touching it, I'm up to a 7 for it. Initially I was bored to tears, and rather annoyed that I never actually accomplished anything - my first play through I became a Thane of 4 of the holds, the Arch-Mage (without having a single Magic skill above 40)and the Harbinger of the Companions before I just got bored because no matter what I did, nothing seemed to change. I had 6 skills at 100, 3 or 4 more in the 90's, I was killing Elder Dragons with a single swipe of my Daedric Warhammer - without invoking my Orc bloodrage ability! - and it was just plain boring.

While I still have those same reservations, I've started to enjoy it more on my second playthrough. I'm level 50 and have almost entirely ignored the Main storyline. I've decided to talk to every NPC in the game to get as many of the quests started "properly" as possible, as opposed to going to every black spot on my compass-thingie to see what's there, and I've decided to go for the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood this time instead of Companions and Mages. It's slightly more interesting trying to do it in a sneaky way, and listening to all of the NPC conversations, many of which are quite amusing. And it's nice to have quests that I can't finish by simply beating bad guys to death; the minor jobs for the Thieves Guild is pretty much what has driven my liking for the game up by that full point since you HAVE to be a decent sneaky character to complete them.

Don't get me wrong, it's never going to be in my top 5 games of all time. It might not make it into my top 10. The downsides still outweigh the upsides. For example, there's little to no sense of accomplishment to many of the tasks - particularly becoming the Arch-Mage, which I became by smashing things with my hammer. I didn't bother learning Magic because beyond a few scripted events, I didn't need magic to become an archmage! (I probably wouldn't need to use armour or weapons to become the Harbinger of the Companions either, if I cared enough about the Magic in the game to try it.) And even once you do become the Harbinger or the Arch-mage, there aren't any decent changes; you still get stupid little 300 gold reward animal hunts for the Companions, you still get asked to fetch books for the Orcish Librarian, for the Thieves guild you still get asked to steal 500 gold worth of stuff from the holds, etc. The guards still say things like "Keep out of trouble, Orc/Elf/etc." even as you're known far and wide as the Harbinger of the Companions. And you don't have to cast a single stupid spell as an Arch-mage.

The glitches are immensely aggravating; I quit the game the first time when I was stuck as a Werewolf AND unable to recruit another follower, which lead to my character being unable to get married. In this game I haven't been able to find about 10 NPC's to get quests from or return items to, I've got one quest stuck in my inventory that just won't go away no matter how many times I finish it and I still haven't figured out why my soul crystals have random values. The voice acting is all over the map and there aren't enough different voices - I can understand not wanting to pay more voice actors, but there are about a dozen characters per voice actor who sound identical. Not including how the Argonians and Khajit have 2 voice actors each for the entire species in Skyrim, so every male Khajit sounds the same, etc.

I'm not planning on getting any of the extras beyond Hearthfire, and only that because I was quite interested in making a Greenhouse and seeing what it would be like to adopt children. It's nice, it's boring, it's easy and it's time consuming - which pretty much sums up Skyrim for me. A nice way to waste a few hours at a time.

 

[bug_of_war]

Nice to meet a fellow offliner

I dare say I'll pick it up again in 5 or so years when a low-end PC can run it, and there's also a more organized, refined and established set of mods for it. I just don't feel as if upon release it was worth anywhere near the amount of praise it received, and when I pay top dollar for a new game I don't expect to have to wait several months or do half the legwork myself getting that game up to speed.

I'm an old school gamer who's only just recently returned to gaming (I've kept my toe in the water, but haven't really spent more than 1-2 hours a week gaming since the SNES days up until this past year) and the amount of money and effort which some game companies take as a given that I'll invest in bringing their games up to speed is laughable IMO.

Hey that's fair enough, and I agree a game should be based on it's original content and not the added mods made by other people. Having said that though we have to remember that not every game will appeal to us and that one mans orange is another's ball of filth. At first I thought the game was average at best so I can totally see where you're coming from, but the more I played it the more things I found interested me.

 

[thespyisdead]

the fact that you can kill your first dragon at lvl 16! wait...

 

[Scarecrow]

I think I'll drop a quote from a very good friend of mine on the game, since I agree with him completely on it:

"Hm. Skyrim. Where to begin? It's fun at first, no doubt. The new engine is pretty well designed. The magick system got a huge overhaul, and is now actually fun and easy to use. Smithing your own gear is a fun idea, and it had me digging in the mines for hours. However, the novelty of "OMGTESV" quickly fades, leaving behind quite a few problems. The majority of the quests are boring as hell. "Go here, kill/retrieve/destroy X, return for reward". There was not nearly enough done with werewolves, and being a vampire no longer has real consequences. There is no Fighter's Guild, no Mages Guild, and the Thieves Guild is pathetically easy, even if you're an orc clunking around in heavy armor. There's no attributes anymore, which means that every character starts the same. This means that anyone can do any number of jobs effectively. In short, it's oversimplified, and suffers for it. Morrowind was better, Oblivion was better. Great for the dude-bro crowd, though. That's why it sold so well."

So that's my answer as it why it wasn't amazing or...really any good.

 

[exxxed]

(...) I've yet to see any first person melee combat that plays really well.

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic... the only one too sadly, that would be my dream for the next Elder Scrolls, Bethesda made environments, Obsidian written story/quests and Arkane Studios developed combat, what the hell are these people fucking about for?!

As for the topic, of course you're not the only one, but I for one have enjoyed every Elder Scrolls so far, it's the lore for me and the environments, a little imagination can go a long way in such expansive games, I'm having a ton of fun, especially with mods and stuff, that alone will keep you busy for a long, long time...

 

[Therumancer]

Now, before someone goes ahead and says ''Another one of X thread talking about popular AAA title...'' I do not hate Skyrim. I like Skyrim, it's a good game, but am I the only one that finds it overrated?
The game has many glaring issues. From horrible clunky combat, tons of bugs, lack of impact and choices on the world *I give a Stormcloak city to the Empire...what I get are different colored guards. Even bloody Talos statues are still around*.
The game also suffers from pretty bad characters and storyline. But even then, I still enjoy it. The world they crafted is pretty awesome, and I enjoyed the new UI, and also the new organic skill system. Also, the dungeons were a much needed improvement over Oblivion, even if they still are a bit repetitive at times.

So, I ask, what do people enjoy so much about Skyrim? what makes it so good to deserve those 9's and 10's?

Elder Scrolls games are largely popular due to the concept, having a huge, open world you can run around in and explore. There have only been a few other attempts to create this kind of Sandbox RPG, and none of them have been of quite the same quality. While the series, including Skyrim, has many bugs, the scope of the entire thing is impressive. Of course that DOES mean sacrificing a lot of the story quality and continuity present in more linear games.

The series as a whole seems to keep moving forward in terms of quality to go along with that freedom, with each game being more prodicient, my biggest complaint with them is that it has so far come at the cost of continuous simplification.

To be honest I think the games do benefit from a lack of competition, Bethesda/Obsidian are pretty much the only ones who develop RPGs like this, whether it be Elder Scrolls or Fallout. If they had more solid competition other than the occasional production like Amalur or Two Worlds (both of which died) and other open games of the same scope there might be more measured responses. Right now Bethesda is basically the only game in town for this kind of thing.

That said I kind of suspect Skyrim will be the last game of it's kind. It seems like they are going into the MMO-space with these games, and the best attentions aside, when I look at what happened with Warcraft and Ultima, it seems unlikely that we'll see any more single player games in the series once an MMO launches, no matter what they might say now. Of course only time will tell.

 

[Scarecrow]

I think I'll drop a quote from a very good friend of mine on the game, since I agree with him completely on it:

"Hm. Skyrim. Where to begin? It's fun at first, no doubt. The new engine is pretty well designed. The magick system got a huge overhaul, and is now actually fun and easy to use. Smithing your own gear is a fun idea, and it had me digging in the mines for hours. However, the novelty of "OMGTESV" quickly fades, leaving behind quite a few problems. The majority of the quests are boring as hell. "Go here, kill/retrieve/destroy X, return for reward". There was not nearly enough done with werewolves, and being a vampire no longer has real consequences. There is no Fighter's Guild, no Mages Guild, and the Thieves Guild is pathetically easy, even if you're an orc clunking around in heavy armor. There's no attributes anymore, which means that every character starts the same. This means that anyone can do any number of jobs effectively. In short, it's oversimplified, and suffers for it. Morrowind was better, Oblivion was better. Great for the dude-bro crowd, though. That's why it sold so well."

So that's my answer as it why it wasn't amazing or...really any good.

That hits a lot of it on the head for me. Freedom of choice is all well and good, but as you say there was no real effort required to become whatever you chose. The thief + armor example is a great one - there's no way an orc wearing heavy armor should be able to sneak up on anyone, regardless of how skillfull they are at it!

Sorry to reply late, but I think that sums up all of Skyrim for me. Nothing has meaning or weight. You can do anything and everything, so nothing is special. Power could change between Empire and Stormcloaks, but it doesn't mean anything. Nothing...matters, so to speak.

 

[King Aragorn]

I think I'll drop a quote from a very good friend of mine on the game, since I agree with him completely on it:

"Hm. Skyrim. Where to begin? It's fun at first, no doubt. The new engine is pretty well designed. The magick system got a huge overhaul, and is now actually fun and easy to use. Smithing your own gear is a fun idea, and it had me digging in the mines for hours. However, the novelty of "OMGTESV" quickly fades, leaving behind quite a few problems. The majority of the quests are boring as hell. "Go here, kill/retrieve/destroy X, return for reward". There was not nearly enough done with werewolves, and being a vampire no longer has real consequences. There is no Fighter's Guild, no Mages Guild, and the Thieves Guild is pathetically easy, even if you're an orc clunking around in heavy armor. There's no attributes anymore, which means that every character starts the same. This means that anyone can do any number of jobs effectively. In short, it's oversimplified, and suffers for it. Morrowind was better, Oblivion was better. Great for the dude-bro crowd, though. That's why it sold so well."

So that's my answer as it why it wasn't amazing or...really any good.

I almost forgot about that, too. Most of the quests are really boring, there are a few great ones *Daedric Quests, DBH Assassinations are always fun*, but for most of the time it's fetch quests. And not the fun kind of way, like in Darksiders II, just...boring fetch quests.
And the radiant quests are the most worthless thing ever. They should have added more variety in it if they wanted it to be the main driving force behind ''playing the game forever''.

And oh, as for combat, Dishonored did it right, really, REALLY right. The combat was smooth, it was fun, and it encouraged using everything at your disposal and different strategies.

 

[Rickin10]

I always buy Bethesda games, because they seem to offer so many things I admire in games i.e. freedom, sense of progression in ability, customization, and of course huge fascinating worlds. But i'm always left feeling rather flat. Why? Well I can never get past how incredibly dull and uninteresting the characters are.

Whether it's the dry, robotic voice acting, hearing the same voice actor every 5th person I speak to, or the repetitive character models and their poor posture and animation, or the painfully earnest and uninspired dialogue, I never feel like I'm existing in a real world, talking to real people, and as a result feel that nothing that I do really matters.

As it was for Skyrim. I kept trying to play it, to invest in this beautiful world. Alas I could never care about it.