What makes Dark Souls "good"?

[Hydra Fun]

Eh, I think that by staying mysterious Dark Souls almost lets you "assume" the storyline would have been good if they tried harder, but I doubt that's the case. I think a botched attempt at a storyline would have been a deal breaker if they had emphasized it more. They probably spent most of their budget developing the gameplay and dungeons. If they had spent more to hire better voice actors/writers the game as a whole would probably pissed off a lot of the fans who played Demon Souls and just wanted to play a similar game in new areas.

I get what you mean about Gears needing a storyline though, but they definitely didn't need to take themselves so seriously in a game where you can survive 5-6 shots to the head without even getting downed.

 

[clankwise]

I didnt really use a waltkthrough to get through the game but i can see why people do. games fun just know that

 

[MurderousToaster]

Now, if I were standing on the prow of a ship cresting a mighty wave...

Why, my boy, it's the victory! The fine, incredible feeling of triumph against all the odds! This is the worst the world could throw at you and, after some effort, you spun it around and kicked it in the arse! The powerful feeling of triumph at a hard-earned success, the orgasm-level explosion of human feelings at having finally beaten whichever bastard boss you were fighting! When you win at a game so difficult, you feel it. You feel like you've beaten the best. You feel like success. You feel like victory incarnate.

Also, it controls pretty well and has some solid RPG mechanics behind it, in my opinion.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

See, it could just be my character design that makes me think this (high strength with huge shield and black knight halberd), but I never have to learn attack patterns. I just keep my shield up and have them hit it, then I hit them. Unless they are a slow, strong one. Then, I just walk backwards until they have an opening and then kill them. However, a lot of deaths come from falling (Anor Londo, Blighttown, and escpecially Tomb of Giants because that was a freaking long walk to the first bonfire). The other come from bosses escpecially S & O. Falling and double teaming just seem like stupid ways to die. When I got a partner the fight couldn't be easier (I hit for like 400). Don't say its tactics either because its also a large part luck. Ornstein wouldn't always seperate from Smough and they would end up getting close together. When my jolly compatriot distracted Smough, Ornstein was nothing. He even misses really often like I think his attacks are meant for you to move into them while running from Smough. Then big Smough was a joke, an easily flammable joke.

But that IS your strategy. You are playing a tank, but not every fight or situation is going to work well for one. That's like playing a wizard and complaining that the enemies won't stay far away, or playing a thief and complaining that an enemy doesn't flinch from your shots. If you want to make a highly specialized character, you're going to have to live with the drawbacks of it.

 

[JasonKaotic]

I've only played the first hour or so, so you can probably disregard this. But I really wasn't very impressed by what I played. I know it was only an hour, but I really wasn't enjoying it. And I was getting completely smacked around by one of the first enemies, which didn't leave a good impression on me. And it all felt kind of clunky. I probably would've played more if I didn't get so many games around christmas, maybe when I play it more I'll end up enjoying it. That'll be after I finish the beacon of Squeenix redemption that is FFXIII.
*drools*

Oh God. Now FFXIII is a truly terrible game.

Just because you don't like the game doesn't make it terrible. There was no need for that.

 

[Penitent]

Dark Souls has the tightest group of bros that ever existed.

The Warriors of Sunlight.

http://radbot.net.nyud.net/pix/2798.jpg[img]

[b]Sunbros! Unite![/b][/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/jwdMz.png

Praise the Sun!

 

[Skin]

See, it could just be my character design that makes me think this (high strength with huge shield and black knight halberd), but I never have to learn attack patterns. I just keep my shield up and have them hit it, then I hit them. Unless they are a slow, strong one. Then, I just walk backwards until they have an opening and then kill them. However, a lot of deaths come from falling (Anor Londo, Blighttown, and escpecially Tomb of Giants because that was a freaking long walk to the first bonfire). The other come from bosses escpecially S & O. Falling and double teaming just seem like stupid ways to die. When I got a partner the fight couldn't be easier (I hit for like 400). Don't say its tactics either because its also a large part luck. Ornstein wouldn't always seperate from Smough and they would end up getting close together. When my jolly compatriot distracted Smough, Ornstein was nothing. He even misses really often like I think his attacks are meant for you to move into them while running from Smough. Then big Smough was a joke, an easily flammable joke.

Thats where we differ. I rarely fall off cliffs and I could run circles around S+O without taking a single point of damage. Where I get killed most is by missing a parry, or by missing a backstab because of my weak armor. It is all about playstyle.

And I do agree with you about the luck thing. If Orny decides to use his ranged lightning attacked rather than jump around like a tard and try to melee you, your fucked. If the Stray Demon immediately uses his fire attack once you drop, your fucked.

You seem to have a love/hate relationship with DS, otherwise I can't understand why you are still playing.

 

[gigastar]

I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches

Out of interest how many tries did it take you to get past them?

Also prepare to get brutalised by Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough. Theyre the area boss for Anor Londo and the hardest bosses in the game apart from maybe Lord Gwyn and possibly the Four Kings after that rebalancing patch.

but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

Well as im sure as its been stated about 150 times now, the games true appeal lies in its challenge. This is a game that really is out to get you at every turn, and the fun in this game lies in overcoming this challenge.

Its a bit off topic but heres a table made to state just how hard Dwarf Fortress is, Dark Souls falls into the same category.

Spoiler: Spoilered due to considerable length

 

[Sozac]

See, it could just be my character design that makes me think this (high strength with huge shield and black knight halberd), but I never have to learn attack patterns. I just keep my shield up and have them hit it, then I hit them. Unless they are a slow, strong one. Then, I just walk backwards until they have an opening and then kill them. However, a lot of deaths come from falling (Anor Londo, Blighttown, and escpecially Tomb of Giants because that was a freaking long walk to the first bonfire). The other come from bosses escpecially S & O. Falling and double teaming just seem like stupid ways to die. When I got a partner the fight couldn't be easier (I hit for like 400). Don't say its tactics either because its also a large part luck. Ornstein wouldn't always seperate from Smough and they would end up getting close together. When my jolly compatriot distracted Smough, Ornstein was nothing. He even misses really often like I think his attacks are meant for you to move into them while running from Smough. Then big Smough was a joke, an easily flammable joke.

But that IS your strategy. You are playing a tank, but not every fight or situation is going to work well for one. That's like playing a wizard and complaining that the enemies won't stay far away, or playing a thief and complaining that an enemy doesn't flinch from your shots. If you want to make a highly specialized character, you're going to have to live with the drawbacks of it.

Lol I learned that after the Anor Lando archers. I bought like 200 arrows which helped later against the 2 undead dragons which were pushovers with arrows. However, I can't see how certain areas of the game would be improved with any character type. Most areas of the game obviously were easier with ranged attacks, but those enemies could still be taken on with melee. Right now I'm way past Anor Londo, but that place broke the game for me in a way that makes me notice other really annoying parts. S & O was just a difficulty spike that was stupid and if I didn't have XboxLive I would've quit right there. I found out later you could summon Solaire, but I couldn't find his summon sign when I was looking for it. Another thing that probably kills people a lot regardless of class is the heights. Whenever I am noticeably high up I get so worried because I know I will get fucked over by that. Tomb of Giants really almost broke the game again because of the long walk back every time. Why there was no bonfire in between Catacombs and ToG is confusing to me. The walk was so long just so I could accidentally fall in the dark. Its funny because I died less to Nito(biggest letdown boss fight ever) than that fucking fall. I really wish Nito was hard because the opening built him up to be such a badass.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Dark Souls has the tightest group of bros that ever existed.

The Warriors of Sunlight.

http://radbot.net.nyud.net/pix/2798.jpg[img]

[b]Sunbros! Unite![/b][/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/jwdMz.png

Praise the Sun!

I love that a game as morbid as Dark Souls has produced such an awesome in joke.

Fucking Sunbros for life!

*Sunbro fistbump*

 

[Sozac]

See, it could just be my character design that makes me think this (high strength with huge shield and black knight halberd), but I never have to learn attack patterns. I just keep my shield up and have them hit it, then I hit them. Unless they are a slow, strong one. Then, I just walk backwards until they have an opening and then kill them. However, a lot of deaths come from falling (Anor Londo, Blighttown, and escpecially Tomb of Giants because that was a freaking long walk to the first bonfire). The other come from bosses escpecially S & O. Falling and double teaming just seem like stupid ways to die. When I got a partner the fight couldn't be easier (I hit for like 400). Don't say its tactics either because its also a large part luck. Ornstein wouldn't always seperate from Smough and they would end up getting close together. When my jolly compatriot distracted Smough, Ornstein was nothing. He even misses really often like I think his attacks are meant for you to move into them while running from Smough. Then big Smough was a joke, an easily flammable joke.

Thats where we differ. I rarely fall off cliffs and I could run circles around S+O without taking a single point of damage. Where I get killed most is by missing a parry, or by missing a backstab because of my weak armor. It is all about playstyle.

And I do agree with you about the luck thing. If Orny decides to use his ranged lightning attacked rather than jump around like a tard and try to melee you, your fucked. If the Stray Demon immediately uses his fire attack once you drop, your fucked.

You seem to have a love/hate relationship with DS, otherwise I can't understand why you are still playing.

What was funny was I didn't even know about the Stray Demon until way later. I had already finished the Painting area before I found out there was anything over there. I went back and I'm so glad he didn't hit me with fire at first. The same thing happened with Nito the first time I jumped down, he used some dumb auto hit on me and that just pissed me off. It's a good thing that disappears after you get close or that would be dumb.

 

[Sozac]

I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches

Out of interest how many tries did it take you to get past them?

Also prepare to get brutalised by Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough. Theyre the area boss for Anor Londo and the hardest bosses in the game apart from maybe Lord Gwyn and possibly the Four Kings after that rebalancing patch.

but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

Well as im sure as its been stated about 150 times now, the games true appeal lies in its challenge. This is a game that really is out to get you at every turn, and the fun in this game lies in overcoming this challenge.

Its a bit off topic but heres a table made to state just how hard Dwarf Fortress is, Dark Souls falls into the same category.

Spoiler: Spoilered due to considerable length

Lol you came into this thread a little late. S & O made me so mad I killed Solaire (didn't know he had a summon sign hidding somewhere until the deed was done) It took me like 12 tries at least to get by the Anor Londo douches, but it felt longer because of the long walk over there. What is funny is on my last try I was so mad I killed the firekeeper and was like "okay last try", I did what the strategy guide said and they did fall off and I felt really dirty for that, but even with my best shield they hit me off the ledge, and running up to them only made the one farthest away hit me, or the one closest would knock me off the ledge.
I'm past S & O through the power of jolly co-op because after I made the fight fair with a 2 v 2 it was really easy. So far there have been no hard bosses in the same way they were hard. Haven't gotten to the Four Kings, but it better not be 4 v 1 or I'll get really mad.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Lol I learned that after the Anor Lando archers. I bought like 200 arrows which helped later against the 2 undead dragons which were pushovers with arrows. However, I can't see how certain areas of the game would be improved with any character type. Most areas of the game obviously were easier with ranged attacks, but those enemies could still be taken on with melee. Right now I'm way past Anor Londo, but that place broke the game for me in a way that makes me notice other really annoying parts. S & O was just a difficulty spike that was stupid and if I didn't have XboxLive I would've quit right there. I found out later you could summon Solaire, but I couldn't find his summon sign when I was looking for it. Another thing that probably kills people a lot regardless of class is the heights. Whenever I am noticeably high up I get so worried because I know I will get fucked over by that. Tomb of Giants really almost broke the game again because of the long walk back every time. Why there was no bonfire in between Catacombs and ToG is confusing to me. The walk was so long just so I could accidentally fall in the dark. Its funny because I died less to Nito(biggest letdown boss fight ever) than that fucking fall. I really wish Nito was hard because the opening built him up to be such a badass.

There actually is a bonfire in the Tomb of the Giants. Its just behind where you slide down from the Catacombs, near where you see Patches.

The nice thing about long falls are that, for the most part, if you die from them it's your own fault for not being more careful. Very rarely have I ever been in a situation where an enemy forced me off a ledge from an attack that I could not dodge. Anor Londo and Blighttown are the worst for it, and luckily both of those sections don't really last all that long.

Haven't gotten to the Four Kings, but it better not be 4 v 1 or I'll get really mad.

Prepare to get really mad. It starts 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then 3, etc. If you can kill them fast enough you won't have to worry, but take too long and you'll be looking at a whole lot of ugly.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

My friend absolutely loves dark souls so he let me borrow it, and I'm hating it. I also hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you. He used walkthroughs and tells me to use them and I tell him that a game shouldn't need walkthroughs. He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games. I told him those old school games were simple enough that it didn't require the game to blatantly cheat and their mechanics weren't glitchy. I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

I would like to hear from both sides of the Escapist what they thought of it.

Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either. I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

Opinion. Pretty much that.

 

[Sozac]

Lol I learned that after the Anor Lando archers. I bought like 200 arrows which helped later against the 2 undead dragons which were pushovers with arrows. However, I can't see how certain areas of the game would be improved with any character type. Most areas of the game obviously were easier with ranged attacks, but those enemies could still be taken on with melee. Right now I'm way past Anor Londo, but that place broke the game for me in a way that makes me notice other really annoying parts. S & O was just a difficulty spike that was stupid and if I didn't have XboxLive I would've quit right there. I found out later you could summon Solaire, but I couldn't find his summon sign when I was looking for it. Another thing that probably kills people a lot regardless of class is the heights. Whenever I am noticeably high up I get so worried because I know I will get fucked over by that. Tomb of Giants really almost broke the game again because of the long walk back every time. Why there was no bonfire in between Catacombs and ToG is confusing to me. The walk was so long just so I could accidentally fall in the dark. Its funny because I died less to Nito(biggest letdown boss fight ever) than that fucking fall. I really wish Nito was hard because the opening built him up to be such a badass.

There actually is a bonfire in the Tomb of the Giants. Its just behind where you slide down from the Catacombs, near where you see Patches.

The nice thing about long falls are that, for the most part, if you die from them it's your own fault for not being more careful. Very rarely have I ever been in a situation where an enemy forced me off a ledge from an attack that I could not dodge. Anor Londo and Blighttown are the worst for it, and luckily both of those sections don't really last all that long.

Haven't gotten to the Four Kings, but it better not be 4 v 1 or I'll get really mad.

Prepare to get really mad. It starts 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then 3, etc. If you can kill them fast enough you won't have to worry, but take too long and you'll be looking at a whole lot of ugly.

The standing skeleton's kicks push me farther when I have my shield up than when I just let them hit me, but luckily there is only one that's really high up. Also, I was talking about getting to that first bonfire. I knew there was one somewhere, but it was at the bottom of a long fall. It took like 5 deaths before I found the ladder. It was after that when I found Patches who knocked me right into the God Lamp. Just finding that made me so happy I didn't kill him when I got back to the top.

Also, that gives me the chills thinking about it. I guess I'll save that for last. Even though they will die fat because my guy can hit for a lot.

 

[Sozac]

Aww. That was sad. I killed this wolf Sif without context again. It was awfully easy and the poor thing started limping when you got down its health. Like the killing blow was after it swung the sword and fell over. Anyone want to tell me why a huge ass wolf just attacked me with a sword.

 

[Guy Montag]

I think the foremost reason for the game's popularity is how different it is.

Whereas almost all RPGs are relatively straightforward, story-intensive and relatively easy, Dark Souls emphasizes gameplay, infers a rather minimalist story, and makes killing you an amusingly important game mechanic. As a big fan of plot and story, I generally found playing through it to be like 'living' a sort of Arthurian myth. It's funny reading something like Theseus killing the minotaur, which goes into no detail about the actual killing part, and then fighting the Taurus Demon and imagining what a frantic and hellish time he had. I also find the game has an overarching theme of desolation. Of course, this is all just me.

Really, the popularity of Dark Souls can be written off to the same reason all games end up popular - because they're fun. That being said, your friend is rather silly for thinking the game to be infallible.

 

[Gorilla Gunk]

Ahh. I remember my experience in the Undead Burg. I chose the thief class and fucked myself solid due to that choice. Don't pick thief on your first time through. Just don't.

The thief class is actually pretty good if you know how to use him. The trick is to trade your dagger for something better first chance you get. I pick up the mace in Firelink Shrine and just use that until I get the Drake Sword. Plus already having the Master Key and being able to pick another gift is a nice bonus. I got the black bombs and killed that first boss guy and got his hammer. The Undead Burg was a piece of cake too.

 

[Burst6]

Aww. That was sad. I killed this wolf Sif without context again. It was awfully easy and the poor thing started limping when you got down its health. Like the killing blow was after it swung the sword and fell over. Anyone want to tell me why a huge ass wolf just attacked me with a sword.

Basically there was a really awesome knight who managed to figure out how to not die in an empty abyss. You're after the ring that let him do that so you don't die instantly at a certain boss.

That wolf is his pet, guarding his grave.

 

[gigastar]

I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches

Out of interest how many tries did it take you to get past them?

Also prepare to get brutalised by Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough. Theyre the area boss for Anor Londo and the hardest bosses in the game apart from maybe Lord Gwyn and possibly the Four Kings after that rebalancing patch.

but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

Well as im sure as its been stated about 150 times now, the games true appeal lies in its challenge. This is a game that really is out to get you at every turn, and the fun in this game lies in overcoming this challenge.

Its a bit off topic but heres a table made to state just how hard Dwarf Fortress is, Dark Souls falls into the same category.

Spoiler: Spoilered due to considerable length

Lol you came into this thread a little late. S & O made me so mad I killed Solaire (didn't know he had a summon sign hidding somewhere until the deed was done) It took me like 12 tries at least to get by the Anor Londo douches, but it felt longer because of the long walk over there. What is funny is on my last try I was so mad I killed the firekeeper and was like "okay last try", I did what the strategy guide said and they did fall off and I felt really dirty for that, but even with my best shield they hit me off the ledge, and running up to them only made the one farthest away hit me, or the one closest would knock me off the ledge.
I'm past S & O through the power of jolly co-op because after I made the fight fair with a 2 v 2 it was really easy. So far there have been no hard bosses in the same way they were hard. Haven't gotten to the Four Kings, but it better not be 4 v 1 or I'll get really mad.

Hey, i live off being late to the party

Well i had the (dis)pleasure of facing S&O solo, i can seriously tell you that its not a pleasnt fight otherwise. In a solo fight the AI adjusts the agressiveness of the one youre not targeting, so keeping on Ornstien will likely get you blindsided by Smoughs hammer, and visa versa with Ornstiens spear.

Also the trick for getting past the dragonbow douchebags (legitimately) is not getting hit by thier arrows. Dodgerolls were added for a reason. head to the one on the right, when you get close to him the one on the left cannot see you due to a pillar being in the way. Roll under the arrows as you approach, then when they switch to melee theyre like any other silver knight in Anor Londo.

Also the Four Kings is a 4v1 fight, and Solaire isnt on hand to help you. But each King spawns one at a time, in addition each have realatively little health for a boss and most of what you need to do is murder the one thats attacking you right away before the next one spawns. Also keep close to them, thier ranged attacks fucking hurt and that was before Iron Flesh got nerfed.

Also a fair tip, if you intend to challenge Gwyndolin in Anor Londo, do it offline. I cant think of words to describe my experience at the hands of the Blades of Darkmoon in Dark Anor Londo.

Also when you get to Lost Isalith, bring a Dragonslayer Greatbow and as many Dragonslayer arrows as you can afford from the Giant Blacksmith in Anor Londo. Quite frankly the area immeadiately after the real final boss of the Demon Ruins made me want to cry.