What makes the Illusive Man evil?

[soren7550]

Really? He's evil because:
- he will do anything to make humanity rule over the alien races
- ordered the attack on the Migrant Fleet
- wanted the Collector Base to be kept so that human dominance would be gauranteed
- implanted Paul Grayson with Reaper technology
- conducted experiments on children
- Akuze
- had Corpral Toombs tourtured and experimented on for several years
- is the head of Cerberus

and on and on and on.
//masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Illusive_Man

1) Our own US government has done anything to make us rule over other nations; in particular those with resources (like oil) we can use
2) Our own US government has ordered attacks on countries that have made no aggressive moves towards us.
3) Our own US government has done much to make sure US dominance will be guaranteed
4) Our own US government experimented on blacks (The Tuskegee syphilis experiment) in order to advance medical technology
5) Our own US government has tortured and detained people in Guantanamo for years

Is the US government then evil? And we're talking other humans here, not just aliens. If you're not from the US look to the atrocities your own government has participated in; most countries in the world don't exactly have saintly track records.

1.) While we are at war with Iraq and Afghanistan, we don't 'rule over them' as you've said.
2.) The United States attacks countries that are a threat to other nations that either can't defend themselves or need help from a more powerful nation. Seeing as the U.S. loves to play thr role of problem solver (regardless if it actually helps), it's our duty to help.
3.) The U.S. takes steps to make sure that those that greatly misuse power on a global (or potentially global) scale are brought down, and to bring democracy to everyone and bla bla bla, all that jazz.
4.) That was conducted between 1932 and 1972 IN ALABAMA. In other words, the very time period and state where African Americans have been treated like shit and wasn't really out of the norm for the time/place.
5.) Yes, terrorist and other assorted highly dangerious criminals were held then, and the tourture done to them is light considering what many other nations do to their criminals/POWs.

TIM seeks for the ahnialation of aliens and for a Cerberus led humanity to rule over the galaxy. How is that not evil?
Go read Mass Effect: Retribution to truly understand what a sicko he is.

 

[Tdc2182]

He just seemed like a douchebag to me.

I found nothing crazy wrong with him except the fact that I was kind of his *****.

 

[AT God]

Hes evil because he has bitchin eyes.

Also he is like humanities Hitler, kill screw everyone else except who he thinks is superior, but mostly its the bitchin eyes.

 

[A_who]

Well good and evil is kinda subjective. The Quarians who had the big encounter with him over whatever, I forgot what had happened, will see him as evil. But when he saves everybody's ass in ME3 they won't be calling him evil then.

 

[Avatar Roku]

He was never meant to be strictly evil, he's much more complex than that. I could see his point, but I still disagreed with his sentiments, and more importantly, with his methods.

And therein lies the thesis of the entire Mass Effect series. Do the ends justify the means, particularly when everyone's survival is at stake? Or do you refuse to let fear compromise your ideals?

It is worth noting that Bioware has always been clear that, no matter how you play Shepard, he is good. The choice between Renegade and Paragon is the same choice mentioned above, but it is NOT a choice between good and evil. I believe that is the point they were making with TIM. While I personally see his actions (especially those on Akuze and Pragia) abhorrent and unforgivable, I am, by ME's definition, Paragon, whereas he is most assuredly renegade. I can see his intentions, but the methods are awful.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Really? He's evil because:
- he will do anything to make humanity rule over the alien races
- ordered the attack on the Migrant Fleet
- wanted the Collector Base to be kept so that human dominance would be gauranteed
- implanted Paul Grayson with Reaper technology
- conducted experiments on children
- Akuze
- had Corpral Toombs tourtured and experimented on for several years
- is the head of Cerberus

and on and on and on.
//masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Illusive_Man

This. Does no one remember ME or the novels (okay, I can see not knowing the novels)? Him and Cerberus are terrorist xenophobes who will do anything to give humanity a leg up in the race for intergalactic supremacy. Anything.

 

[StormShaun]

He puts humans first and other races last and he wants to rescue humanity anyway possible....I wanna shoot him so bad..

 

[Zaik]

Evil is a bit of a silly term. He's not some mustache twirling mastermind out to take over the universe or anything.

But, what he tells you he'll do and what he actually does tends to wildly differ. He's more or less interested solely in his own ideas and motivations, for the better or worse of anyone involved.

 

[dagens24]

He's not evil, persay, just very unethical and xenophobic. He's willing to fuck over anybody to ensure that humans come out on top; even other humans.

It's be like a country invading another country to steal it's resources in order to protect it's own people. Sure, that's great for IT'S people, kinda sucks for everyone else though.

 

[mr.mystery]

evil is a subjective term..

 

[MiracleOfSound]

The game never implies he's evil, just extreme in his methods like a reflection of Renegade Shepard.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I personally don't like him very much. It's nice that he wants humanity to be all powerful but if Shepard shows anything its that the galaxy is alot stronger when everyone works together. He gives me the impression that once he had gotten rid of the reaper threat he would start taking out aliens and alien sympathisers like some sort of crazy ethnic cleanser.

The fact that he basically orders you to go and get aliens to help you take out the collectors makes him a hypocrite.

Also he made Shep work with Miranda and Jacob who I can't stand... hes lucky he recruited Joker or my Shep would have been out there as fast as a long tailed cat out of a rocking chair factory. Oh and I just thought of somthing Jacob's bio in the shadow broker base basically says he was put there because of his reassuring personality. Theres somthing a bit manipulative about that methinks.

His eyes also put across that he's more than what he lets on.

 

[Lesd3vil]

The fact that none of you people have yet questioned the notions of 'good' and 'evil' amuses me.

What are 'good' and 'evil'? Words that people made up. Good means we agree with you, evil means we don't. Simple as that.

 

[Monsterfurby]

He is Machiavellian and decides that the end justifies the means.
He's actually just like a political leader or warlord.

But that sort of considered evil by the public.

He believes the ends justify the means, exactly. I personally don't consider him evil, just ruthless.

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

He is Machiavellian and decides that the end justifies the means.
He's actually just like a political leader or warlord.

But that sort of considered evil by the public.

He believes the ends justify the means, exactly. I personally don't consider him evil, just ruthless.

Exactly. I see the Illusive man not so much being about good or evil. It's all about the rights of the few, vs the needs of the many.

For example:
Would you choose 10 people to die or 1? Logically, people would choose the 1 person to save the 10.
Would you kill 1 person, to save 10 people? Apparently, people don't, because know we believe that to murder a person is evil.

Even though in the former case, you're still the exact reason that 1 person dies, you're not actually directly killing him, which makes a huge ethical difference for us now.


The Illusive man sets him above this. He WILL kill that one person, he WILL choose the needs of the many over the rights of the few.

Asa a famous anthropologist once said:

?Leaders are not the virtuous people they claim to be; they put politics before statesmanship; they distort facts and oversimplify issues; they promise what no one could deliver; and they are liars. But leaders, if they are to be effective, have no choice in the matter: they could not be virtuous and leaders at the same time. They most have the -paradox- moral courage to set themselves above established values and believes, to attain their ends."
F.G. Bailey

 

[Zantos]

He seems pretty legit. Bioware did well to classify actions as paragon and renegade rather than good and evil, since it's hard to argue that any action that keeps you on the path to saving the galaxy could be defined as evil.

 

[Booze Zombie]

That he lies to you at every chance, personally sanctioned all of the actions you fought against in the first game and if you look on YouTube, if you hand him the *maguffin* he smiles in an evil manner, as if he has just been handed his own Reaper making machine.

 

[CommanderKirov]

He is evil 'cause Bioware will make him one of the side "bosses" in ME3. And we cannot have any actuall dillemas in our evil characters now can we? He will soon propably turn on humanity as well and sit on a large throne made out of skulls. Just so the thicker of the gaming people would get the hint.

 

[SamStar42]

He's the personification of "the end justifies the means". Which may not be outright evil, but is certainly an ethically dubious position which quickly leads to all manner of corruption and tyranny here in the real world.

I like this reasoning.

To be fair, everyone in the Mass Effect world has moral ambiguity behind them. The council have genetically altered a race so they can handle them better. Jack...let's not get started on Jack.

The man only has interest for his own race and in a universe which seems to be [well, is] facing impending attack, it's not really that good to only protect your own.

 

[Bobbity]

Well that's the thing. Taken on his own, he is, yes, a perfectly good guy. The problem is that his organization is a real *****, as you see in both ME games.

It's difficult to assimilate the extremist terrorist organization and Martin Sheen, but it's the only way to gain a proper perspective on the character.