What medieval melee weapons would we observe in an alien civilisation?

[Thomas Barnsley]

One of my casual hobbies is thinking up original, feasible, and distinctly non-human alien species. It's rather fun, would recommend! I'm thinking of throwing all the ones I've got so far into a sci-fi space opera novel at some point.

One such alien of mine is fairly humanoid from the chest down - two arms, two legs, flesh, blood, hands and feet - but has a very different cranial and facial sort of lay out. And the most drastic of these differences is the location of the brain, which sits in a dense cartilage semi-skull at the base of the neck, with the spine extending down the back to the rest of the body, but ALSO up the neck to where the eyes and mouth are located. Therefore, decapitating one of these fellas would serve only to rather excessively blind them.

This leads me to my question in the subject heading; what hand-to-hand combat tool would these guys develop to best kill each other, seeing that decapitation or head trauma are off the table and the chest is heavily cartileged? Would they be much the same as what we used, swords and spears and clubs, or would they favour one above the other? I don't really know enough about medieval weapons to judge, so I'd love to hear from you guys.

If you can't think of anything specific to my scenario, perhaps bring up a different example, or discuss another funky theory on non-human development. Aliens are cool man.

 

[Saelune]

Unless they are super different from us, Id wager most sentient intelligent species making tools of war will make alot of what we do. Bows, spears, clubs, maces, and swords all developed in most civilizations on their own. Variations obviously exist, such as curved vs straight, and distribution, but really its more about the materials available rather than who uses them.

 

[Level 7 Dragon]

Well, if decapitation and slashing is off the table, they would probably rely on piercing and blunt weapons to reach vital organs.

I would imagine blunt weapons such as hammers and maces being the main offensive tool, with halberts and spears being used for defensive purposes.

Personally, I think that the easiest way to kill one of them would be to shatter the skull or the spinal collumn or attemp to pierce the heart.

 

[Thomas Barnsley]

Unless they are super different from us, Id wager most sentient intelligent species making tools of war will make alot of what we do. Bows, spears, clubs, maces, and swords all developed in most civilizations on their own. Variations obviously exist, such as curved vs straight, and distribution, but really its more about the materials available rather than who uses them.

To better phrase my question slighty: while we do observe the same weapons in a lot of cultures, what I notice with humans is that it's the sword which is most prominent in the majority of places it developed (I'm pulling that one out my arse a bit). Do you think that prevailing weapon would change with a difference in physiology? Having yours brain in your neck, in particular?

I do realise that you're certain to see all permutations on the same basic human weapons concepts, as dictated by the available resources. If a funky alien sees a rock, its not going to say 'I could try to kill that guy with this, but no, I can only use sharp objects to kill in my civilisation!' They're not going to arbitarily limit themselves.

 

[Thaluikhain]

As Saelune said, lots of cultures on Earth came up with similarish weapons.

But for that reason, the question becomes largely unanswerable, except in the most general terms. There's no simple answer to "What medieval melee weapons did humans use?" (if you expand that to beyond the medieval period).

This leads me to my question in the subject heading; what hand-to-hand combat tool would these guys develop to best kill each other, seeing that decapitation or head trauma are off the table and the chest is heavily cartileged?

Why off the table? Even if the brain isn't there...suppose a human with a sword in one hand gets the arm they weren't using cut off. That's a serious, possibly quickly fatal injury, even if there's no important organ or weapon there.

If you can't think of anything specific to my scenario, perhaps bring up a different example, or discuss another funky theory on non-human development. Aliens are cool man.

What I'd find interesting is something more different, even subtly. Suppose a creature could move quickly forwards, but couldn't turn as fast as humans (say something centaur like). How would that have affected warfare?

Or an intelligent underwater creature, that couldn't use fire or electricity, how would they develop?

 

[Saelune]

Unless they are super different from us, Id wager most sentient intelligent species making tools of war will make alot of what we do. Bows, spears, clubs, maces, and swords all developed in most civilizations on their own. Variations obviously exist, such as curved vs straight, and distribution, but really its more about the materials available rather than who uses them.

To better phrase my question slighty: while we do observe the same weapons in a lot of cultures, what I notice with humans is that it's the sword which is most prominent in the majority of places it developed (I'm pulling that one out my arse a bit). Do you think that prevailing weapon would change with a difference in physiology? Having yours brain in your neck, in particular?

I do realise that you're certain to see all permutations on the same basic human weapons concepts, as dictated by the available resources. If a funky alien sees a rock, its not going to say 'I could try to kill that guy with this, but no, I can only use sharp objects to kill in my civilisation!' They're not going to arbitarily limit themselves.

Im no swordfighter, but I dont see decapitation as the primary attack method, so if they are still flesh, Id imagine swords would still be popular. Perhaps bug aliens might prefer blunt weapons like maces though, but you didnt say anything about natural armor or exoskeletons.

 

[Megalodon]

No real reason to think anything would change. Decapitation wasn't actually all that common on medieval battlefields (hard to pull off, especially when men are in formation, and it's just far easier to inflict less flashy, but still lethal trauma). Eyes would still be a valid target, blinding an opponent is always useful, and damage to the eyes/mouth are quite likely to result in shock and potentially suffocation (you don't specify how these chaps breathe). Either way you're taking the opponent out of the fight, or creating an opening for the coup de grace.

Brain trauma would still be a viable option, you'd just need to swing at a different place. Cartilage is a lot weaker than bone, so would be inherently less protective. Even if you made the not-skull substantially thicker (no idea how thick you'd need to match the protection of a bone skull) then concussion etc. would still be a risk, as the brain can be damaged without penetrating the skull.

So yeah, while you may get some alien designs (just looks at the weapon variety we saw in humans, thanks to available materials, environment and culture) the basic injury methods of 'sharp thing' and 'kinetic energy focussed on a small area' should be just as effective on the alien you described. So no reason to suppose they'd do anything particularly funky with their weaponry.

 

[hermes]

Most of the melee weapons are evolution over clubs, that is weapon 101 of every civilization. Add an edge and you have a sword or an axe, add a pointy end and you have a spear... We could see different shapes and techniques (parts like hilts could vary wildly depending on the shape of their members), but the functions would be very similar.

 

[Thomas Barnsley]

This leads me to my question in the subject heading; what hand-to-hand combat tool would these guys develop to best kill each other, seeing that decapitation or head trauma are off the table and the chest is heavily cartileged?

Why off the table? Even if the brain isn't there...suppose a human with a sword in one hand gets the arm they weren't using cut off. That's a serious, possibly quickly fatal injury, even if there's no important organ or weapon there.

If you can't think of anything specific to my scenario, perhaps bring up a different example, or discuss another funky theory on non-human development. Aliens are cool man.

What I'd find interesting is something more different, even subtly. Suppose a creature could move quickly forwards, but couldn't turn as fast as humans (say something centaur like). How would that have affected warfare?

Or an intelligent underwater creature, that couldn't use fire or electricity, how would they develop?

Yes, not off the table entirely I guess. But you can't go for the jugular, for instanct, since the neck don't got one. Surely that would factor into a decrease of use in slashing weapons, as Level 7 Dragon possets? If everything is wrapped up in cartilege then slashing may not do much good.

On the subject of water creatures (because it is a very interesting question) I personally don't believe something aquatic can evolve sentience as we know it. Look at orcas. Very intelligent creatures, can't do shit because they lack opposable thumbs. Even if they were more octapus like, with tentacles and stuff, it's going to be hard to get any decent technology. No metals (unless, possibly, maaaaybe, they can exploit some sort of mid-Atlantic ridge phenomenon), no fire, probably not even much light. That's a lot of things that we had that they wouldn't have, ao I don't know.
You could have some sort of agriculture though, maybe... Agriculture is important.

 

[Thomas Barnsley]

No real reason to think anything would change. Decapitation wasn't actually all that common on medieval battlefields (hard to pull off, especially when men are in formation, and it's just far easier to inflict less flashy, but still lethal trauma). Eyes would still be a valid target, blinding an opponent is always useful, and damage to the eyes/mouth are quite likely to result in shock and potentially suffocation (you don't specify how these chaps breathe). Either way you're taking the opponent out of the fight, or creating an opening for the coup de grace.

Brain trauma would still be a viable option, you'd just need to swing at a different place. Cartilage is a lot weaker than bone, so would be inherently less protective. Even if you made the not-skull substantially thicker (no idea how thick you'd need to match the protection of a bone skull) then concussion etc. would still be a risk, as the brain can be damaged without penetrating the skull.

So yeah, while you may get some alien designs (just looks at the weapon variety we saw in humans, thanks to available materials, environment and culture) the basic injury methods of 'sharp thing' and 'kinetic energy focussed on a small area' should be just as effective on the alien you described. So no reason to suppose they'd do anything particularly funky with their weaponry.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention they have blow-hole sort of things. They don't breathe from the hole they use for eating.

You're right though. A stab is a stab, no matter how you spin it. It doesn't matter where your brain is, if you get stabbed, then you've been stabbed, and then you're probably fucked because you've been stabbed.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yes, not off the table entirely I guess. But you can't go for the jugular, for instanct, since the neck don't got one. Surely that would factor into a decrease of use in slashing weapons, as Level 7 Dragon possets? If everything is wrapped up in cartilege then slashing may not do much good.

I'm led to believe that many (possibly most) injuries from that sort of fighting weren't on places that were important so much as places you could hit. Reach out to hit an enemy and you've brought your arm dangerously close to their weapon, that's an easy target suddenly (especially in a shieldwall, where someone else other than the person you are attacking can attack you, be may leave themselves open to someone on your side doing the same).

Likewise, spear injuries to the lower leg were common because a shield didn't reach that far down. The chest is not an easy target.

On the subject of water creatures (because it is a very interesting question) I personally don't believe something aquatic can evolve sentience as we know it. Look at orcas. Very intelligent creatures, can't do shit because they lack opposable thumbs. Even if they were more octapus like, with tentacles and stuff, it's going to be hard to get any decent technology. No metals (unless, possibly, maaaaybe, they can exploit some sort of mid-Atlantic ridge phenomenon), no fire, probably not even much light. That's a lot of things that we had that they wouldn't have, ao I don't know.
You could have some sort of agriculture though, maybe... Agriculture is important.

A technology would be hard, yes, but sentience I could see happening, it just wouldn't be able to express itself so much. It'd also have to deal with a 3d environment with strange properties.

 

[Zhukov]

Do you think that prevailing weapon would change with a difference in physiology? Having yours brain in your neck, in particular?

No.

Weapons generally aren't designed to attack one particular part of the body. They're designed along more general lines of bludgeon/cut/pierce etc. I'm trying to think of a single anatomy-specific weapon in all of human history and coming up with nothing. The closest I can think of is caltrops being used to specifically damage feet and hooves, and those aren't really a weapon in the way you mean, certainly not a melee weapon.

So just shuffling around the vital organs wouldn't change much.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'm trying to think of a single anatomy-specific weapon in all of human history and coming up with nothing.

Garrotte? But, yeah, not melee in the same sense.

Alternatively, IIRC there was a period in which the two handed German sword was employed almost exclusively to attack the enemies face. But that's a particular variant of a weapon being used in a specific way, it's not designed from scratch for that one purpose. For that matter, armies issuing bayonets and training soldiers to stab at the enemies abdomen.

 

[Baffle]

Rocks. And maybe sticks.

 

[the December King]

What I'd find interesting is something more different, even subtly. Suppose a creature could move quickly forwards, but couldn't turn as fast as humans (say something centaur like). How would that have affected warfare?

Or an intelligent underwater creature, that couldn't use fire or electricity, how would they develop?

This is a fun one, often how I approach thinking up new challenges in inhuman characters to roleplay. As an example, the idea of a creature that is super capable of killing humans, for example, but how? Does it have hands? Is it bipedal at all? And what about eliminating or switching up vulnerabilities- like no spinal column for an octopus-like being, but getting terribly tired in an air environment with holding it's structure together. Or a super durable exoskeleton, but it makes running impossible?

All of those would factor into what weapons they themselves developed to fight each other (assuming they, at some point in their history, fought amongst themselves, of course).

 

[Erttheking]

The only way I can see them having major deviations is if there's something truly radical, like natural armor. Even then we'd probably just see similar designs that have been tweaked to work around it.

 

[LostCrusader]

I'm trying to think of a single anatomy-specific weapon in all of human history and coming up with nothing.

Garrotte? But, yeah, not melee in the same sense.

Alternatively, IIRC there was a period in which the two handed German sword was employed almost exclusively to attack the enemies face. But that's a particular variant of a weapon being used in a specific way, it's not designed from scratch for that one purpose. For that matter, armies issuing bayonets and training soldiers to stab at the enemies abdomen.

I remember seeing a polearm that was designed for cutting off limbs around shields that was used against the roman legions. Not sure if that would count, but I can't remember the name of the weapon. I do remember it was supposed to be used with a pulling motion. Pretty sure it was in the first rome total war.

Edit: Looked it up, was called a Falx.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I remember seeing a polearm that was designed for cutting off limbs around shields that was used against the roman legions. Not sure if that would count, but I can't remember the name of the weapon. I do remember it was supposed to be used with a pulling motion. Pretty sure it was in the first rome total war.

Edit: Looked it up, was called a Falx.

The falx wasn't solely for that, though. It was also good at cutting through armour.

This is a fun one, often how I approach thinking up new challenges in inhuman characters to roleplay. As an example, the idea of a creature that is super capable of killing humans, for example, but how? Does it have hands? Is it bipedal at all? And what about eliminating or switching up vulnerabilities- like no spinal column for an octopus-like being, but getting terribly tired in an air environment with holding it's structure together. Or a super durable exoskeleton, but it makes running impossible?

All of those would factor into what weapons they themselves developed to fight each other (assuming they, at some point in their history, fought amongst themselves, of course).

There's also stuff like senses that tend to get overlooked. The human eye isn't well put together, a creature could easily have much better eyesight. Alternatively, most placental mammals other than primates can't distinguish between red and green. If the enemy is red/green colourblind, you can have red uniforms so your tropps can see each other but remain camouflaged in forests, red landmines etc

 

[FalloutJack]

I think that body is not the only factor here, insofar as the alien being physically different from a human. The mindset works as well. For instance, I have a race that rarely used weapons in its more primitive times at all, being a wholey predatory species known for powerful leaping and claw/jaw maneuvers. You wouldn't bother with a weapon if your body and mind were geared towards unarmed combat.