What should gaming developers do in terms of feminism and self-censorship?

[Burnouts3s3]

I like to write stories. One day, I hope to be able to write for a video game company, mainly in RPGs. But, the question of women's representation vs artistic freedom has always lingered on the back of my mind, and I'm not sure how I should approach it.

I'm wondering if I should let feminism 'affect' my writing. I mean, I get the criticisms: objectification, mass media affecting depiction of women, little girls being pressured into looking a certain way, I get it. I certainly don't want any women to experience rape or harassment.

But, I see my specific characters as male or female. At best, I would be willing to gender swap some characters, but even then, I feel like I would be making the "Fighting Fuck Toy" (not coined by me but someone else). I just like explosions and fight scenes. I don't want to give any negative impression on a female what-so-ever: my characters are individuals based on my imagination. Is my imagination based on patriarchal wish-fulfillment? Sure, but I don't mind. But, then again, I speak from male privilege.

Mainly, I take Bob Chipman's accounts when he mentions that women are largely missing from popular culture (specifically in video games) and that game developers should attempt to put more female protagonists. However, he also says that that self censorship is wrong and uses the quote from David Cronenberg "As an artist, that's where the paradox is - your responsibility is to be irresponsible. As soon as you talk about political or social responsibility, you've amputated the best limbs you've got as an artist.?

Obviously, all works of art are open to criticism. I accept that. However, I don't understand what a game developer 'should' do. I certainly do not wish for negative representation of women to continue, but how should a game developer approach feminism without being labeled as 'self-censored' especially considering feminism wasn't part of the game developer's agenda to begin with?

 

[MrSir231]

If I was a game developer, I would just not care until people can come together on what a "good women character" is. I've seen people criticize women who have breasts, even if they're not that large(which by the way, does happen in real life, so it's not an inaccurate representation of women). They then refuse to look past that character's appearance and then judge that character and the game developers solely by her breasts, and not by her actual character, which is more objectifying than the people whom they're criticizing. Then when you don't have a character with large breasts, and whose character is not dependent on a man, they get criticized for being a woman written as a man, so i'm not quite sure what people want from these developers. I do agree that we need more female characters, especially non-white females, as they get even worse representation, but people need to stop criticizing every aspect of a female character that comes out.

Anyway, just write the game the way you want to. Don't feel the need to cave into pressure, be it from feminists, MRAs, or any other group for that matter.

 

[Zhukov]

I can understand not wanting to feel pressured to include more females or 'strong female characters'.

I guess a good way to approach it would be to avoid the opposite. That is to say, if you do happen to come up with a good idea for a female character then go ahead and do it rather then self-censoring her out of existence in order to meet the marketing department's checklist.

...

Really, I'm not sure it's worth worrying about. Artistic integrity or artistic freedom or whatever you want to call it, is something of a myth anyway. Good stuff is not created in some pure vacuum of inspiration. Social baggage and financial concerns and every other damn thing are going to have an impact whether you like it or not and whether you're aware of it or not.

 

[Phasmal]

All I'd want is for game developers to realise that they have a female audience that matters.

Think of your female characters as people first, women second. Consider what has shaped them as a person, why are they acting this way? What are their motivations? Are they realistic? Do they make sense in the world around them? Are they relatable?

Developers are ALREADY made to self-censor- do you think every developer just happens to want to make blank white dude number 999999?

No developer or creator is free from outside influence and it's hypocritical to demand that they have no outside influence just when it comes to this.

Just do your best and keep your mind open to criticism, especially in regards to things you personally have not experienced.

 

[lacktheknack]

Ideally, gaming developers would do whatever pleased them.

Really, the main problem we currently have is that developers have to bow to the Word Of God that is the marketing department.

Sure, I criticized the hell out of Vanillaware when they put out Dragon's Crown, but if I'm really honest, I think I'd take what they had to offer over, say, a palette swap of Uncharted because that's what sells well (and if you're about to bring up my love of the new Tomb Raider: That's not a palette swap. At all.).

Anyways, I've had a super"hero" story churning in the back of my mind for a while. One of the characters is female, and she is faced with how women are "supposed" to behave and the niches they're "supposed" to fill and she struggles with her inability/unwillingness to fill them. That's a conflict that people nowadays can relate with, male and female alike. That, I think, is what makes a good female character: she appeals to all readers, but can't be easily swapped out with a guy with no changes.

 

[Burnouts3s3]

If I caused any confusion with my wording, I apologize. To clarify, sometimes, I feel morally obligated to add a woman to my first all male cast or whenever I think of racy material, I sometimes hesitate to write it, because I'm afraid of showing women as sex objects.

 

[Angelblaze]

Ideally, gaming developers would do whatever pleased them.

Really, the main problem we currently have is that developers have to bow to the Word Of God that is the marketing department.

Sure, I criticized the hell out of Vanillaware when they put out Dragon's Crown, but if I'm really honest, I think I'd take what they had to offer over, say, a palette swap of Uncharted because that's what sells well (and if you're about to bring up my love of the new Tomb Raider: That's not a palette swap. At all.).

Anyways, I've had a super"hero" story churning in the back of my mind for a while. One of the characters is female, and she is faced with how women are "supposed" to behave and the niches they're "supposed" to fill and she struggles with her inability/unwillingness to fill them. That's a conflict that people nowadays can relate with, male and female alike. That, I think, is what makes a good female character: she appeals to all readers, but can't be easily swapped out with a guy with no changes.

I agree with you on Dragon's Crown - but I'd say it was more of a matter of lack of communication/knowledge of appeal etcetc.

Example: Everyone who didn't like it stateside ganged up on and focused on the over-sexualization of the Sorceress, not realizing that the original artist's sort of 'marking' for female necromancers was large breasts. If Atlus had put up the video concerning releasing Wizard first, and having him more sexualized would have helped greatly with the original scandal. It erks me when you look at him in comparison to the rest of the class. He's so bland in comparison and so SAFE where this was a chance to really go absolutely nuts on head with it and make him the male sorceress. And in the current day and age of popular media, looking at social networking, you can't tell me that you can't research what women enjoy in male characters.

Essentially, you can do whatever you want with your female characters - it'd be unfair of anyone to censor your work to begin with. Free speech and all that jazz.

 

[Eve Charm]

Generally your target audience should be more of a concern then what people that probably won't play your game will think about it. People as a whole will never agree on the same thing and trying to appease it is a useless endeavor. On point writing and pandering to the people MOST likey to give you money is a better option the being any sort of correct.

 

[deathbydeath]

When you are creating stories, games, etc., just don't be a dick.

I believe we can end the thread now.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

My advice is do whatever you want. I want all levels of game making to be free to make what they want.
If people criticise you, and they will, then so be it.

I don't feel like there needs to be a checklist for diversity, or such. I just appreciate it if there is diversity.

Feminism, and I'm no expert on the subject, nor do I want to be, is multi-faceted. You'll never appease them all, but on that note you'll never appease everyone, feminist, or not.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

If I caused any confusion with my wording, I apologize. To clarify, sometimes, I feel morally obligated to add a woman to my first all male cast or whenever I think of racy material, I sometimes hesitate to write it, because I'm afraid of showing women as sex objects.

I think I'll step in here. Just write your story how you want. If there is no reason to have a Female character, don't. A tacked on Token Woman is worse than no woman.

As long as you ask yourself "Is my character doing this for plausible reasons, relevant to Her, or am I doing this because I should take a time - out and watch some Porn?"

Because "HARD TRUTH" Women LIKE to feel sexy. But most male-written Female Characters make women feel Inferior to the Morrigans, Cammys, and Jessica Rabbits, rather than sharing in their Power. If you write a well-rounded female character, and allow her to be confident, without Flaunting how Hot she is, I can think more women will get behind her. Perhaps if her confidence with her attractiveness can be part of her story Arc? Realising that she CAN wear clothes that Highlight her looks while still being respected, and gaining a sense of self empowerment from Feeling Like A Sexy Diva. Or not. Perhaps she decides that since she IS attractive, she doesn't need to give a rats ass about what she wears.

I will Quote Wonder Woman from "Justice League War." She shows up to the White House to find an Anti-Wonder-Woman rally in Progress. She asks what is wrong, and is told that She and other Super Heroes are Bankrupting America with Property Damage, and even WORSE, "You dress like a Whore!" She then hits him with the Lara it of Truth and asks his real motivation. He replies "I cross-dress in a Wonder Woman outfit because it makes me feel Powerful." She then pats him on the back, smiles and says "It makes me feel powerful too!"

If your characters are well written, they will shine, so write how you want to.

 

[omega 616]

I just like explosions and fight scenes. I don't want to give any negative impression on a female what-so-ever: my characters are individuals based on my imagination. Is my imagination based on patriarchal wish-fulfillment? Sure, but I don't mind. But, then again, I speak from male privilege.

See, that's your problem. It's all about your imagination, it's not for peoples reading pleasure. That's sounds far more aggressive than I want it to.

Write to build great characters and a world around them, not to put an idealized version of yourself as the main protagonist, who thwarts the bad guys evil plan and makes off with the beautiful woman ... mainly 'cos that is the plot of just about every action film (from James Bond to XXX). Also, doing what the hunger games did, doesn't make for a powerful female lead (in my opinion) that is just a gender swap ... Katfish Jellybean is basically Rambo but she obviously has to have a love triangle.

I think there are way too many male hero's that a good female role would be good, using an actual female psychology. I mean, women a more likely to kill through poison ... it is less personal and is far more sneaky, a guy is much more likely to stab or shoot, it's very direct and instant.

Why not write a female character that doesn't charge in like Lara Croft but seduces, tricks, manipulates and just when they think they have her trapped, she always slips the net.

Less Dead space and more outlast, not shooting anything that moves but running and hiding, progressing her story and moving towards goals by subtle manipulation (to get past the big scary guy, you don't bash him with a chair, you attract him, hide and when he moves past you, you sneak past).

Remember that film with George Clooney and Catherine Zeta Jones? She made herself rich by manipulating men to marry her and then divorce them, rather than planning murders and inheriting the money.

 

[Canadish]

It's bad times really. There is enormous pressure on developers to self-censor at the moment from the media (Polygon and Kotaku probably being the worst offenders) in order to appease an outside and increasingly unreasonable political movement. I think the majority of the criticism thrown at games is somewhat unfair, mainly because there isn't anything wrong with what's being made, but just the lack of what isn't getting made. It's the same argument with CoD taking over the market and turning everything into Modern Military Shooters, Call of of Duty itself is innocent, it just tried something new and struck gold. The problem lay with EVERYONE else trying to copy it and steal it's market.

Just like there isn't anything wrong with male focused games, combat, big boobs/revealing outfits and short-brownhaired-white-30something protagonists. It's just that people play follow the leader and you get a lot of the same. They're just following market trends though and secure sales data. Sadly, subverting the formula rarely pays off and usually just causes harm. While it's bigger than it's ever been, the ravenous media-consuming internet dwelling types of people are still a minority and John and Jane's tastes are not reflected by our conversations here. 47% of "gamers" may well be Women, but we all know that it's probably only 10% of that that plays and (more importantly) buys AAA games, and so they're not going to get games focused on appealing to them. Female protagonists don't automatically draw in the female crowd, whether they meet approval from the Feminist sect or not.

The hardcore RPG crowd has argued for years trying to get more games focused on their tastes and their requests fell on deaf ears for a long long time, as franchise after franchise turned into action-shlock. It only really changed when A) the rare title that came out was proven to be a success time and time again and the community worked to show these titles off and make them a financial success and B) The indie scene kicked into overdrive and decided to fill the gap that the AAA ignored, which I personally feel has been the most elegant solution.

If I was to tout a solution here, I'd say that was it. Look to the independents and the smaller teams who can afford to take some risks. While I think it was massively overblown and over-priced, I think Gone Home is a good example of that non-combat female focused game that's being cried out for. Little projects like these are what the publishers need back up their own risky ventures.

The real key here is that people need to just solve the problem themselves and stop "raising awareness" and trying to bully people with their media clout into making what they want. Two-wrongs don't make a right. While it's a frustrating answer, the best way to deal with this is for people who feel strongly about it to just go out and make the games they want to see and prove they have a place fair and square.
If it's gonna be fixed, it has to be fixed right, or you're just gonna fuel more hatred and fulfill all those fears about Women entering a male space. The fears are all rooted in Women coming in and smashing the Men's stuff down and putting their own things in it's place and taking over one of the only aspects of their lives without that female influence. There isn't any need for that when there is a whole other empty side of the room for them to use. The space can be shared without getting rid of what we have now, which is in itself, innocent.

The real issue here is the more extreme feminism arguments and where the debates come up. I think 90% of us already agree with what I mentioned above, but the decisive issue here is that alleged feminist social theories about the current depictions of Men and Women are directly harmful and need to be censored for moral/social structure reasons. Media sites and game e-celebs sometimes take this line and that is what's causing the rift. The reasonable compromise no long sounds so reasonable when it's just the first inevitable step towards censorship and social engineering towards a future not all of us are entirely convinced is a good one. While we often stand together to prevent censorship of violence, and dispute that the depiction of violence does not directly lead to it, it seems many have flipped over when it comes to Women and now think that the depiction of alleged sexism, or disempowerment of a woman will lead to this kind of thinking in the players.

I'll never compromise on that point. You can't bully your way into getting what you want on a moral matter, whether it's physical, through media coverage or emotional bullying. It's never been easier to go out and make a splash on the market as an individual.

Go be a strong independent game designer, who need no man.

 

[Eamar]

Developers are ALREADY made to self-censor- do you think every developer just happens to want to make blank white dude number 999999?

THIS. Why aren't more people picking up on this?

People go on about self-censorship as if it's being enforced by feminists or "Social Justice Warriors," when in fact the opposite is true. In many, many cases it's the insistence of the publishers that everything revolve around a generic white dude that's stifling artists' own desire to include women and other minorities.

Feminists aren't a credible threat to artistic freedom. They just don't have that sort of power. It's the publishers you want to be looking at.

 

[Tenkage]

How about not doing anything, and just make characters who appeal to whatever audience they want to sell too, or better yet good characters just to make good characters

 

[Eamar]

The moment you stop writing what you want and start writing what everyone else wants you stop becoming an artist and start becoming a panderer.

Guess Michaelangelo was a complete hack then. Along with pretty much every game dev ever.

The idea of the artist as some independent creative force is actually very recent. Throughout history artists, even the great artists like Michaelangelo, have worked to strict commissions (like seriously, Renaissance art contracts specify stuff like which particular type of paint should be used and in what quantities, and the patron got to have the artwork edited until he liked it, even if he knew fuck all about art) or churned out stuff to meet the public demand so they could afford to live.

You can produce what you consider to be the greatest painting/book/game/song of all time, but if no one buys it you're not going to make any money. And if selling your art is your job, it might be terribly noble to stick to your vision no matter what, but you're not going to last very long if you exclusively take that approach.

"As soon as you talk about political or social responsibility, you've amputated the best limbs you've got as an artist.?

I completely disagree. Some of the best pieces of art and literature have been overtly political, promoting the artists' own political message and ideals, their ideas of "political or social responsibility." This view just seems short-sighted to me - of course it's not appropriate all the time, but there are plenty of cases when it is, and indeed where that's the whole point.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

"What should gaming developers do in terms of feminism and self-censorship?"

Gaming developers should do whatever the hell they want, and we'll decide if we like what they've done by buying or not buying the product, it's pretty much as simple as that.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think the most important thing for developers to realize at this point is that the criticism is real and has a real foundation to it. It's not just a small chorus of extremists that are shouting from the rooftops about things that only impact a very small minority. There's something real there to consider when crafting your worlds and characters.

That said, I also feel that while it's important for developers to take all criticism on board, they are ultimately at the helm of their own creative ship (well, as much as is possible under a publishing contract assuming they are in one). They should be allowed to make the creative choices they want to make.

At the end of the day, I think what the feminist/equalist/etc. viewpoints bring to the table is that developers actually have more freedom as opposed to less. The easy assumption is that "woah feminism, I have to X!" but I don't see that as being the case at all. What the current environment really shows is just there is a large and vocal market out there for games that feature different types of protagonists in different types of storylines and settings. Developers should use the current environment to fuel their creativity rather than be restricted by it.

 

[Fireaxe]

People calling the fact that developers are mostly making white male characters self-censorship need to consider that if they make anything else it won't sell as well, that's not censorship though, that's just targeting the best demographic for their product.

Frankly I don't think developers should need to do anything beyond what they think is right for the story they're writing, with the caveat that people can vote with their wallets if they don't like something (or just aren't interested).