What Would The Reaction To A Female Bond (007, that is) Be?

[Tilly]

Oh I see, you thought I meant that it would be the exact same people throwing the exact same hissy fit. I didn't mean that- I meant it would be similar people throwing a similar hissy fit and there would be some overlap.
Either way, I'm kinda done debating James Bond. Though I didn't realise how many people see him as some sort of perfect masculine ideal- I don't really see it myself.

I don't think it's that people think it's a perfect masculine ideal. But it's the fact that it's deliberately supposed to be a male power fantasy of a sort that if you change that, people are inevitably gonna read some political statement into it.
I'm generally against changing established characters. There's something disingenuous about it. It feels like people are saying. "We see this character has built up a following and reputation. Lets use that for something those followers didn't support." It's a way to try and get more attention for your new idea than you think you'd get if you just tried it as a new IP.
Saying that people are just against you doing a woman version is manifestly untrue when they'd be happy for you to start a new series based on that. They just don't want you messing with established characters.

 

[Creator002]

"Wow, they've really done it. They've totally run out of ideas."

That'd be my reaction too.

I really don't get this current trend of gender swapping everything. "But, but representation! Female characters in media!" Well is it really a female character if you just take a formerly male character and put him in a woman's body? I think it's total bullshit.

Again, same thoughts. A female James Bond with hardly any character change is like playing a 007 game with a female skin DLC for Bond. Changes nothing but the gender, voice and possible love interests (though they could just make female Bond a lesbian or bi to get around that and get more minority points while at it).

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

007 exists as his own microcosm of the quintessential male power fantasy. Bond is not a 'character' so much as he is an idea; a globe-trotting, morally ambiguous, enigmatic, sexual tyrannosaur --who just happens to be the only man for the job of saving the world. He's the embodiment of masculinity, which is why he's worked so well.

As I said before in this thread, that's precisely why I think it would be interesting - a female expression of the icon would let a writer explore what that masculinity means and has meant in/to pop-culture, from era to era.

It's like...why? Why not make your own badass super-spy who happens to be female? Why nip at 007's heels?

A new character could be viewed as nothing but an insubstantial clone, whereas an actual gender switch would expressively come with the cultural value/associations of the icon that is Bond. The comparisons and discussions about gender and gender roles would be valuable in themselves.

I'm not exactly pushing for it, mind, but I do think it'd be a fascinating project and I'd prefer it over just another blokey Bond. Gimme a Black Widow MCU film first, though...

 

[sumanoskae]

Are you asking how I would feel about it? Because I see no issue with it. I mean, there's also no real reason for it, but the nature of the character wouldn't really change.

But as for the general public? Oh, you can be fucking sure that the unwashed masses would be all kinds of butthurt. You'd have closet chauvinists complaining about the loss of a "Masculine" icon; you'd have pseudo-feminists on one side arguing that a woman openly and regularly enjoying noncommittal sex is (somehow) demeaning to her own gender; you'd have psychotic puritans calling Jane Bond a whore, who was encouraging their daughters to have consensual sex with attractive men (This is a bad thing, you see; you're only allowed to have sex when other people approve of it)...

It would be glorious, and they should do it!

 

[Keiichi Morisato]

i wouldn't mind a black James Bone or a female Jane Bond if they didn't continue the Daniel Craig Bond. they would have to reboot the series again, but this time make it so that James Bond is actually a code name, not the name of the spy himself. personally, i have always that is how it should be done period, it would explain the actor change both in gender and race.

 

[Banana Cannon]

What Would The Reaction To-

Stop right there. Bad.

I don't get it? Its a legit question.

If that's a legit question, let us have a look at why it is commonly believed as such, or at least muse why it's now a thing to turn every classic male character female. Such as what Marvel did with Thor. Because that wasn't reminiscent of pandering to a social ideology. at. all.

You want a Female Bond? I counter your Female Bond with a Male Wonder Woman! And follow up with a Male Elizabeth from BioShock!

Now, since that kind of logic has been ascertained & satirised by my ridiculous counter demands, I can only hope that it screws with people's minds a little who'd push for that kind of thing.

Beyond all that; I wouldn't watch it. People have had spy women films. And self-actualised female characters are in fiction long before this kind of thinking became a standard. Have you all forgotten about Hit Girl? Look up Vin from The Final Empire by Brandon Sanderson, too. Because wow, at least that fine author didn't drop the realist viewpoint that to be a goddamn hero in the proper sense of the word, with the skills to pull the lifestyle off too, you'd have to have some stark & horribly cruel conditioning in your past, or even a few screws loose.

And the more modern interpretation of Bond? A gritty kind of real, so I doubt having a gender swap or a race swap would up the stakes for the next batch of films. It'd detract from the substance of the character, infact, because we wouldn't get to appreciate any other kind of change on him. The biggest change would literally be skin deep. And that's all people would be forced to engage with on a social level when talk of it comes up. Such is Identity Politics, & all it is ever capable of doing for people.

So there. You have a legit answer to your legit question.

 

[EHKOS]

Better than Craig. I hate that guy.

But I think if she were the dominant, "powerful", kind of woman, it wouldn't be a problem. I'd actually kind of like to see that.

But I wouldn't want to see the trope where she uses her sexiness to distract a guard or something like that. It seems like it would be a fine line and extremely easy to fuck up.

 

[Auron225]

The idea of taking an established franchise and simply gender flipping it has got to be the laziest, most insincere, dumbest way to write anything. Especially if you're doing it to appear more politically correct and accommodating of other demographics.

Really, rather than writing new, interesting characters, people are just saying "screw it, let's just make the same thing again but with a chick instead of a dude. That will shut people up with very little actual work on our behalf."

That's what I think any time I hear people suggesting stuff like "hey, let's make Zelda with a female Link" or "Let's remake 007 with a woman". Just a lazy cop out, and bad pandering. People deserve more.

I agree on most counts... but there is a slight difference regarding the Link scenario. We're not playing as the same character in most Zelda games. They are all green-clad, sword-wielding heroes called "Link", but they live in different time periods (with a few exceptions like Wind Waker + Phantom Hourglass). They are all linked by destiny/fate/legend/whatever-you-wanna-call-it, but there is nothing which has laid down that all of them MUST be male. As Bob said, it can fit very easily into the canon. "On this occasion, the hero of time was born a woman" is all the justification in would need lore-wise.

James Bond on the other hand is an established character. Sure there have been several actors, but they all play the exact same James Bond written by Ian Fleming. The idea of gender-swapping him, or indeed any established character like him/her, does seem lazy to me and I'd just wonder "why do it", but Link is a unique case where it would fit with the story. It's why people are forever questioning whether/when Nintendo will do it with him and not Mario.

 

[SecondPrize]

As long as she's British and true to the character, it could be fun. A few people would flip out in various places on the internet and then we'd get articles about mass outrage from misogynerds and such.

 

[CaitSeith]

Probably the same that to the female Ghostbusters.

 

[Orga777]

I don't see why it would be a problem as long as it is done right.

 

[Ariseishirou]

A bunch of bleating about "SJWs" and "identity politics" ruining everything if the reaction to the idea of Idris Elba as Bond and this thread are anything to go by.

Myself, I think it could be very interesting if done right. She'd have to be as ruthless and dominant as the male Bond and not some fragile femme fatale knock-off for it to really be Bond and not just some other character. Also, about twice as interesting if they didn't age her down for the role and left her in the 40s-60s range that her male counterparts are. As other people have pointed out in some of the few legitimate complains about a female Bond idea, the sexy 20-30-something female spy who seduces men with her feminine wiles is something we've all seen done before - we've seen it done to death, frankly. But a dominant, imposing "cougar" (as someone else put it)?

Yeah, I'd pay money to see that.

 

[dragoongfa]

I would be down with such a movie, as long it is named Black Widow and stars Scarlet Johansson.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Will she get to bang atleast one person of opposing sex per movie? That is pretty crucial to Bond's identity.

To be honest, that character just seems too ingrained in masculinity to me. Maybe gender swapping could work, but it's still hard to imagine for me.

I'd rather have a black Bond than a female Bond, if only because it fits better with that "James Bond is just a code name" theory.

I'd rather have a black Bond than a female Bond, if only because Idris Elba is suave as fuck. Honestly, at this moment i can't imagine any other succesor to Daniel Craig's role. Shame it most likely won't happen.

 

[Eri]

The idea of taking an established franchise and simply gender flipping it has got to be the laziest, most insincere, dumbest way to write anything. Especially if you're doing it to appear more politically correct and accommodating of other demographics.

Really, rather than writing new, interesting characters, people are just saying "screw it, let's just make the same thing again but with a chick instead of a dude. That will shut people up with very little actual work on our behalf."

That's what I think any time I hear people suggesting stuff like "hey, let's make Zelda with a female Link" or "Let's remake 007 with a woman". Just a lazy cop out, and bad pandering. People deserve more.

I agree on most counts... but there is a slight difference regarding the Link scenario. We're not playing as the same character in most Zelda games. They are all green-clad, sword-wielding heroes called "Link", but they live in different time periods (with a few exceptions like Wind Waker + Phantom Hourglass). They are all linked by destiny/fate/legend/whatever-you-wanna-call-it, but there is nothing which has laid down that all of them MUST be male. As Bob said, it can fit very easily into the canon. "On this occasion, the hero of time was born a woman" is all the justification in would need lore-wise.

James Bond on the other hand is an established character. Sure there have been several actors, but they all play the exact same James Bond written by Ian Fleming. The idea of gender-swapping him, or indeed any established character like him/her, does seem lazy to me and I'd just wonder "why do it", but Link is a unique case where it would fit with the story. It's why people are forever questioning whether/when Nintendo will do it with him and not Mario.

Quoted for truth. Stop trying to change already existing characters for the sake of "inclusion". Piss off with that.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

Most wouldn't care and i doubt it would take off as a franchise.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

I don't think Ian Fleming's James Bond was intended as a male power fantasy. Bond is a miserable human being who is consciously destroying his body with his lifestyle. That's what Thunderball was about. M send Bond to the health retreat, and for a brief period of time, Bond got a taste of what life could be like without the constant hangovers and self-loathing and general ill health. But when duty calls, he lurches right back into his destructive lifestyle because, I think, James Bond needs to drink himself into oblivion and eat large amounts of fried food as a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that Bond actually hates his job. Bond isn't actually having fun most of the time. It's this jaded slog where everyday James Bond pulls on his shoes and drowns out the negative thoughts with more alcohol.

In my view, GoldenEye is the best Bond film precisely because its story is so jaded and Bond is so unhappy and cynical about the world and his job and the people he works for and the people he doesn't work for. None of the other Bond films have such a bitterness underpinning them, I don't think.

I think female Bond is a bad idea. It has this nasty whiff of comic book logic to it. I'm unhappy enough with the dramatic writing changes in Craig-era Bond, where the British-centric material was stripped away to create something more "international".

 

[VanQ]

Leave Bond alone, people like that franchise for how it is.

Make a Kim Possible movie instead.

Then everyone wins. A Kim Possible Movie would be awesome.

 

[Battenberg]

I don't know about the general reaction but mine would be dependent on how good a job she does. After all my enjoyment of the Bond films is not in any way tied in to what genatalia Bond has.

That said I would kind of understand people being upset I guess. Kind of.