What's the appeal with first-person gameplay?

[Owyn_Merrilin]

The problem is that once you go outside the subgenre, it becomes even less true. I mean, try "clicking on other players to win" in an old school Arena FPS. You can't do it, because the guns all have weird properties that you have to work with. It's kind of like Yahtzee's deal with multiplayer. He hates multiplayer games because he hates people, which makes it really obnoxious when gamers start spouting his justifications like they're the gospel truth about videogames.

Basically, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people quote him on stuff like that. Most reviewers have biases against certain genres. On one notable occasion, I actually bought a game[footnote]An old school first person dungeon crawler for the GBA called "Mazes of Fate." It's first person like Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder, though, not like Doom.[/footnote] based on overwhelmingly negative reviews... because the people reviewing it were complaining about features of the subgenre, they just wanted it to be a totally different kind of game. Did not regret it at all. Yahtzee's complaints about a lot of things are like that, he's whining that it's a style of game he doesn't like, and usually doesn't even understand. It could be the best game in the world, but if it either forces him to interact with other people or otherwise hits one of his blind spots, he's gonna trash it, and I mean legitimately trashing it, not just for comedy like he does in pretty much all of his reviews.

Yahtzee, Yahtzee, Yahtzee, Yahtzee, Yahtzee, pet peeve.

So you wouldn't have become sensitive to what I wrote if I didn't say Yahtzee's name, that's all I got out of this. It's way off topic and I don't care for it.

No, I would have recognized the quote even if you hadn't said it was from Yahtzee. If it had been an original thought, it would have still been ignorant, but it would have been less obnoxious. But it wasn't, you were quoting a comedian on something he personally dislikes yet knows very little about and not thinking for yourself. You're hardly alone on this site for doing that, and for more than just FPS titles (his even dumber opinion on multiplayer games is the one I see quoted the most often), and it's obnoxious no matter who does it.

Face it, Yahtzee was wrong and so are you. "Click on things to kill them" doesn't describe first person shooters, let alone first person games in general. If anything it describes RTS games, MOBAs, and RPGs, next to none of which that use that particular mechanic are in first person.

 

[Nazulu]

No, I would have recognized the quote even if you hadn't said it was from Yahtzee. If it had been an original thought, it would have still been ignorant, but it would have been less obnoxious. But it wasn't, you were quoting a comedian on something he personally dislikes yet knows very little about and not thinking for yourself. You're hardly alone on this site for doing that, and for more than just FPS titles (his even dumber opinion on multiplayer games is the one I see quoted the most often), and it's obnoxious no matter who does it.

Face it, Yahtzee was wrong and so are you. "Click on things to die" doesn't describe first person shooters, let alone first person games in general. If anything it describes RTS games, MOBAs, and RPGs, next to none of which that use that particular mechanic are in first person.

Your assumptions disgust me. And whats even worse is you think you're talking facts, then you missed the point of what I was saying and then you decide to generalise other types of genre's that are completely different and not part of this topic. I bet you just became sensitive of what I originally said (like I'm taking a stab at your favourite franchise, which I'm not) so you think that means you can insult me and preach to me what you believe. That's right, all you're telling me is your beliefs and I don't care for it.

Do it again and I'll just throw you onto the ignore list.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No, I would have recognized the quote even if you hadn't said it was from Yahtzee. If it had been an original thought, it would have still been ignorant, but it would have been less obnoxious. But it wasn't, you were quoting a comedian on something he personally dislikes yet knows very little about and not thinking for yourself. You're hardly alone on this site for doing that, and for more than just FPS titles (his even dumber opinion on multiplayer games is the one I see quoted the most often), and it's obnoxious no matter who does it.

Face it, Yahtzee was wrong and so are you. "Click on things to die" doesn't describe first person shooters, let alone first person games in general. If anything it describes RTS games, MOBAs, and RPGs, next to none of which that use that particular mechanic are in first person.

Your assumptions disgust me. And whats even worse is you think you're talking facts, then you missed the point of what I was saying and then you decide to generalise other types of genre's that are completely different and not part of this topic. I bet you just became sensitive of what I originally said (like I'm taking a stab at your favourite franchise, which I'm not) so you think that means you can insult me and preach to me what you believe. That's right, all you're telling me is your beliefs and I don't care for it.

Do it again and I'll just throw you onto the ignore list.

Generalize? Dude, I'm doing a playthrough of The Witcher right now. That is literally a game where you click on monsters, and then when your attack is finished, click on them again at a specific time. You don't even have to be facing them when you do the initial click, and your camera doesn't need to be facing them on subsequent ones. It's also either third person or top down depending on your settings, with absolutely no first person mode of any kind. But please tell me how I'm generalizing about other genres and/or trolling. I'm not the one who said something false and assumed I was talking facts. Deal with it. Put me on the ignore list if you will, but that's basically admitting defeat in the most pathetic way possible: plugging your ears and going "I can't hear you."

 

[Nazulu]

No, I would have recognized the quote even if you hadn't said it was from Yahtzee. If it had been an original thought, it would have still been ignorant, but it would have been less obnoxious. But it wasn't, you were quoting a comedian on something he personally dislikes yet knows very little about and not thinking for yourself. You're hardly alone on this site for doing that, and for more than just FPS titles (his even dumber opinion on multiplayer games is the one I see quoted the most often), and it's obnoxious no matter who does it.

Face it, Yahtzee was wrong and so are you. "Click on things to die" doesn't describe first person shooters, let alone first person games in general. If anything it describes RTS games, MOBAs, and RPGs, next to none of which that use that particular mechanic are in first person.

Your assumptions disgust me. And whats even worse is you think you're talking facts, then you missed the point of what I was saying and then you decide to generalise other types of genre's that are completely different and not part of this topic. I bet you just became sensitive of what I originally said (like I'm taking a stab at your favourite franchise, which I'm not) so you think that means you can insult me and preach to me what you believe. That's right, all you're telling me is your beliefs and I don't care for it.

Do it again and I'll just throw you onto the ignore list.

Generalize? Dude, I'm doing a playthrough of The Witcher right now. That is literally a game where you click on monsters, and then when your attack is finished, click on them again at a specific time. You don't even have to be facing them when you do the initial click, and your camera doesn't need to be facing them on subsequent ones. It's also either third person or top down depending on your settings, with absolutely no first person mode of any kind. But please tell me how I'm generalizing about other genres and/or trolling. I'm not the one who said something false and assumed I was talking facts. Deal with it. Put me on the ignore list if you will, but that's basically admitting defeat in the most pathetic way possible: plugging your ears and going "I can't hear you."

You were already defeated when you started preaching to me with your poor aggressive arguments (which is what desperate people do when they can't think of a way to defend), and you still remain way off topic of what I was talking about. I don't know where you're are going with this but this whole thing is a waste of time. Why should I waste time on this, I have no idea. Aggressive people aren't worth it so keep it up till you get banned please. Bye bye Mr. Silent.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No, I would have recognized the quote even if you hadn't said it was from Yahtzee. If it had been an original thought, it would have still been ignorant, but it would have been less obnoxious. But it wasn't, you were quoting a comedian on something he personally dislikes yet knows very little about and not thinking for yourself. You're hardly alone on this site for doing that, and for more than just FPS titles (his even dumber opinion on multiplayer games is the one I see quoted the most often), and it's obnoxious no matter who does it.

Face it, Yahtzee was wrong and so are you. "Click on things to die" doesn't describe first person shooters, let alone first person games in general. If anything it describes RTS games, MOBAs, and RPGs, next to none of which that use that particular mechanic are in first person.

Your assumptions disgust me. And whats even worse is you think you're talking facts, then you missed the point of what I was saying and then you decide to generalise other types of genre's that are completely different and not part of this topic. I bet you just became sensitive of what I originally said (like I'm taking a stab at your favourite franchise, which I'm not) so you think that means you can insult me and preach to me what you believe. That's right, all you're telling me is your beliefs and I don't care for it.

Do it again and I'll just throw you onto the ignore list.

Generalize? Dude, I'm doing a playthrough of The Witcher right now. That is literally a game where you click on monsters, and then when your attack is finished, click on them again at a specific time. You don't even have to be facing them when you do the initial click, and your camera doesn't need to be facing them on subsequent ones. It's also either third person or top down depending on your settings, with absolutely no first person mode of any kind. But please tell me how I'm generalizing about other genres and/or trolling. I'm not the one who said something false and assumed I was talking facts. Deal with it. Put me on the ignore list if you will, but that's basically admitting defeat in the most pathetic way possible: plugging your ears and going "I can't hear you."

You were already defeated when you started preaching to me with your poor aggressive arguments (which is what desperate people do when they can't think of a way to defend), and you still remain way off topic of what I was talking about. I don't know where you're are going with this but this whole thing is a waste of time. Why should I waste time on this, I have no idea. Aggressive people aren't worth it so keep it up till you get banned please. Bye bye Mr. Silent.

So then I win? You really can't hear me? Wow, that's a first. If you ever do see this, realize that I wasn't being aggressive, you were just flat out wrong and were called out by multiple people. You came off looking like a two year old, at the end of the day.

 

[Poetic Nova]

I can't aim in third person shooters and FPS's are more immersive imo.

 

[Bluestorm83]

Well, the word that everyone will toss around for this is "Immersion," but honestly, I'm not convinced that Immersion is what every game needs. I mean, I've played more boardgames in my life than Videogames, have probably had more fun with boardgames, and never was enthralled by the illusion that I really and truly AM tiny plastic tanks rolling into West Germany as my buddy Steve IS tiny plastic bombers coming to blow up my tanks because in four years I NEVER beat that Sumnabitch at a SINGLE GAME of Axis & Allies.

At the same time, there is no, and there should be no, immersion in a game of Tetris. I suppose that what I'm saying is that different presentations work differently for different genres.

Platforming? Third Person is a must.
Shooting? First or Third is good here.
Horror? Like, REAL terrifying horror like the first Condemned game? First person. At 3 AM. In a dark creaky house.
Puzzle? Almost always Third Person (I think that Portal's the only first person puzzler that really NAILED it.)

But the Market will look at the most successful (Read; Call of Duty) games and try and make things like them, in an ill informed attempt to steal the sky from Zeus, instead of just realizing that the Ocean is actually more important to people, and we could make a killing there. So more games get repetitive, grind based multiplayer, more games get Angry Bro With Gun on the Brown and Gray Cover, more games get First Person, more games get Photorealistic Grime Effects, etc.

 

[Bluestorm83]

SIGH, sorry for the Double Post. The Captcha pooped itself, and told me that it didn't post, so I did it again, and there was the original one that "didn't work."

So I'll say something different here... OH! Okay, the Skyrim Story.

I'm in Pennsylvania, staying with Family for the winter, since my job is in horticulture, and you can't really do happy warm weather plant things when Snow and Ice Exist. So I'm playing Skyrim, right? And I'm in this sidequest where some young woman is being forced by her mother to kill a dude and become a witch. And she's like, "I don't want to be a witch, I need you to help me to stop human sacrifices and kill my crazy evil witch mother, because witches that do human sacrifices are bad!" And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm down with that."

But my Stepfather is like, "Wait a second, Witches and Human Sacrifices!? Those are BAD!" And I'm all, "Right. That's why I'm-a kill that witch, and stop the Human Sacrifices." And he goes, "But the only human sacrifice was Jesus, who gave his life willingly to pay for Man's sins!" To which I reply, "Right. So I'm going to kill the witch, and stop the sacrifice." And he's like, "Witches aren't good either!" I'm like, "See previous comment about stopping the sacrifice by KILLING the witch." He's like, "I'm sorry, I can't have a Witch Human Sacrificing game in my house." And I'm thinking "I'm 30 years old, I am too old for this shit," but I'm like, "Yeah, sure, whatever," because he's CLEARLY having a different conversation in his own head than the one that I'm having in reality.

End Result? About a month later, I come home, pop in Skyrim, and knock that Witch's head right off her shoulders with one swing of my mace.

And it was all done in First Person (But I AM on topic!) which actually works better for an Elder Scrollsy Experience.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

And he goes, "But the only human sacrifice was Jesus, who gave his life willingly to pay for Man's sins!"

Wat? Does your step dad not know about some of the other religions that were mentioned in the old testament, the ones that various prophets had a hard time keeping the Jews from joining? Some of them practiced human sacrifice, that's why there's quite a few mentions in the old testament of why you shouldn't do that.

So even Biblically, that's not correct.

 

[Olas]

Realism, immersion, a sense of actually being the character and not simply controlling them like a puppet. That, to me, is what makes first person almost ideal. I probably take the whole immersion thing a little too seriously, but I even disable crosshairs, subtitles, and HUD elements where I can to keep things as close to reality as possible, at least in first person games.

It's also great for a good horror game since it limits your view and makes you feel more vulnerable.

Plus in some games you can use the third person camera to cheat by looking around corners and seeing things your character shouldn't be able to see, which is stupid. First person perspective makes the position of your character important.

Plus it clears up your view since you don't have an annoying little guy standing in your view range taking up part of the screen the whole time.

 

[Benpasko]

Skyrim...

You'll get a warning straight away if you don't explain your answer. Edit, edit as fast as you can.

The question was "What's the appeal with first-person gameplay?" which I answered. If I would've said "enough said" would it have made a difference? I've seen many small comments with nothing in the way of explanations to no consequence, so I don't see a reason to get a warning for that.

Except you didn't answer anything at all. Skyrim is a game that has an optional first person mode. Okay? How does that pertain to the topic at all?

OT: Immersion is the main reason. A gunfight feels more chaotic, the world feels more alive in first person. It puts you in the action, rather than controlling a character in the game. I'm playing a game called White Day right now, and it's incredibly scary but wouldn't work at all if it wasn't in third-person. The limited field of view has you looking behind yourself a lot to make sure something isn't sneaking up on you.

 

[Someone Depressing]

In games where the camera is awful, particuarly horror games such as Siren: Blood Curse (I play that only in 1st person) it not only helps general playability, but adds to the whole horror thing.

As for RPGs, people don't seem to understand what that means: It's a ROLE PLAYING GAME, you take the role of a character and develop them through your choices. Not, +1 Strength because you kicked this bucket.

As for 1st person shooters... no idea, ask a Call of Duty fan. Just make sure they don't try to give you a Glasgow Smile.

 

[loc978]

I'm having a hard time with the "realism, immersion" angle in this thread. I tend to find the first-person perspective restrictive in most modern games. It kinda worked back when we had precise 1:1 mouse control and a standard 90 degree FOV for our floating camera of a protagonist, but now that we've got all these fancy character models that have to interact with worlds via a physics engine (sometimes even having to walk with virtual legs instead of just float around), 90 degrees of vision is considerably less acceptable. Add on that a lot of games give you as low as 60 (and that actual human peripheral vision stretches toward 180 degrees, making "combat tunnel vision" something closer to 120)... and first-person perspective just doesn't work for me anymore (well, unless I just fire up a game from 1999 or something).

...and first-person has never worked for melee combat. Swinging a melee weapon generally puts its arc outside of a 90-degree FOV for over half of the swing. If the weapon is only hitting where a cursor is pointing, that's not melee combat, it's point-blank shooting.

All of that said, I'm spoiled in modern games. In a game of any complexity that requires you to aim with a crosshair, platform and interact with the environment in a puzzle-solving sort of way, I require the precision of a first-person perspective for some actions and the spatial awareness of a third-person perspective for others... switchable with the click of a scroll wheel. Any game that attempts platforming, shooting, looting and physics puzzles that locks you into one perspective or the other is insufficient... which is why I skipped Dishonored.

 

[Jetsetneo]

You mean aside from game play mechanics that are unique to it, immersion in potential story, and perspective?

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

I'm one of those people who thinks survival horror works better in first person. I can't imagine something like Amnesia being scarier because I can see who I'm controlling. If anything the limited view made it even tenser and put me on edge just that little bit more.

 

[Nazulu]

No, I think you just got confused and lost my original point which is that it is simple for people see and an easy thing to aim for. I never wandered off just talking about genre, I'm simply stating that 'simple' is what helps make something popular. It goes for entertainment in general so I don't see why it can't be applied to games. And what I was trying to get at is that the popular perspective can carry on to other franchises, which is what Miss. G mentioned with the new JRPG's (as well as other franchises we know that have converted as well).

Why do I feel hostility from you? Did I offend you? Do you usually make assumptions? Fucking hell. I don't feel like I need to be treated like an idiot. Can I make a mistake without people jumping on everything I say? I wasn't looking for an argument. What if I didn't mention 'Yahtzee', would I still be trying to be edgy and witty with a stupid phrase? I seriously doubt you would have even thought of it?

The statement that it is just point and click to kill people implies the sole focus on a genre (in the context: First person arcade shooters). And you yourself said:

We're clearly talking about first person shooters.

You brought genre into a discussion about a perspective with a simple phrase that lacks any explanation or further examination. I provided several examples where your statement just falls flat on its ass (be it the lack of killing, challenging gameplay, mechanical depth or the combination of those).

And if you would've written the phrase without mentioning Yahtzee it would be still the same:

You wanted to be edgy and witty with a stupid phrase from someone who used it not as an universal truth but a comedic phrase that crumbles when you apply a little thought to it.

I don't care if you weren't looking for an argument. You used a phrase to dismiss a buttload of games as "simple play style" without examining possible merits or even any examples where it might not be the case. You were wrong.

No I'd say you're the one who wants to be edgy and irritating. Also, I don't believe you at all, it's definitely because I mentioned Yahtzee. You just lost it when you saw that for some reason.

When I said "first person shooters" I was meant to say "first person perspective games" but that came out instead probably because I was tired, but for some reason you decide to hang off that.

I wasn't trying to 'dismiss games' and I don't care that you provided some popular titles that were different than the usual shooter because I wasn't specifically talking about that. And I wasn't just talking about 'click to kill' exactly, with a little imagination we could expand easily to other things, like say making portals and throwing grenades or talking to other characters or whatever. I was just talking about that sole mechanic of pointing where to achieve your goal, that it's easy for people to get their head around. Why the hell do I have to bring up different examples? Because I forgot your favourite game? Shit.

I don't even know what you're on about anymore, I was just throwing out a suggestion that I've explained now and you keep trying to pick a fight with me instead.

 

[Nazulu]

sole mechanic of pointing where to achieve your goal

*sigh* And this describes the vast majority of games. It has nothing to do with perspective used. And we are back to square one.

You know, you haven't described anything. You just keep ragging on about 'majority of games' that are supposedly easy to get into without bringing up anything. And even then it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Lets talk about something different though. Why the hell did you get aggressive with me? Lets see how smart you really are. You started this shit now lets see if you can get out of it.

The forum encourages friendly discussion, well you failed that one miserably. As far as I can see, there was absolutely no point telling me I was being "edgy and witty with a stupid phrase". It's absolutely pointless to the discussion. I could call someone an asshole but it doesn't mean I've proved they are (you reading this Owyn, assumptions isn't discussing, it's just disrespectful).

I don't even know what 'phrase' you were talking about earlier, you just pulled that out of nowhere. Preaching to the choir all the same.

 

[Miss G.]

...I'm such a noob. Meant to quote this post from GoaThief: "So people only like FPS because of gun culture or place of birth? Say what? What country are you from anyway??"


My answer:
When it seems that a country has been founded on some of those things I believe it does matter, at least somewhat. I was born here in the US, but my family is Bahamian thus I've been raised in The Bahamas since I was 2 weeks old. Even though I've been back here for school since 2012, there's still a blatant disconnect between the Bahamian and the American parts of me. Coming from a technically outside perspective, the culture here pertaining to guns and military stuff (amongst many other things) isn't something I can really claim to understand as I didn't grow up with it. Off topic I could've asked the thread to explain the appeal of stuff like bagels and apples for the same cultural reasons because I don't get those either and I'm studying to be a baker.

 

[Reaper195]

Aside from Bethesda developed/published games, I don't think any RPGs are first-person. Correct me if I'm wrong though. And JRPGs? Never even heard of one being first person before. And aside from the aformentioned, all other FP is in shooters.

 

[Miss G.]

Aside from Bethesda developed/published games, I don't think any RPGs are first-person. Correct me if I'm wrong though. And JRPGs? Never even heard of one being first person before. And aside from the aformentioned, all other FP is in shooters.

Some of the FP JRPGs are ATLUS titles. And I think some old-school dungeon crawlers are as well.