What's the worst gun?

[WolfThomas]

Either way, the weapon was largely worthless since you were betting it all on one shot, and even that wasn't guaranteed.

Oh yeah I agree it was crap, I just think context is important. Minor flaws in something like a standard infantry rifle could be considered "worse" than huge flaws in a gun that was designed to be cheap, disposable and of limited use.

I also really like the idea of for a small cost arming huge amounts of a populace to put an enemy on edge, imagine if say 10% of Paris' population received them it would be very stressful for German soldiers. I think the OSS really didn't care that it might not work in a large proportion, because these aren't American soldiers or even allied soliders, but civilians and so basically bonus points if they can achieve something with it. Also even if it doesn't kill the soldier, it wounds him, putting the enemy down a solider and having to use resources to look after him.

 

[Canid117]

The AK and the M14 shoot almost the same damn exact round, the difference is you can aim an M14 and the new M14 EBR is lighter and more accurate still.

Wait wait wait. The AK 47 shoots almost the same exact round as the M14 the Ak shoots a: 7.62x39mm
M-14 shoots a: 7.62x51mm

The AK 47 bullet is significantly shorter and so weighs less. Not to mention the soviet union changed over to a more M-16 like round with the AK-74. At the end of the day a smaller round has shown to be more effective for various reasons. (Mostly economic and efficiency related.) At the end of the day the M-14 is a piece of shit on full auto. Too light to fire accurate sustained bursts but too heavy for refitting with a lighter round. Have you seriously never heard of the term recoil? The BAR worked because it was heavy enough to fire a big bullet without destroying the users accuracy. The M-14 does not have that advantage and so destroys any chance of maintaining fire on a position for suppression work. A cheap as shit Ak-47 can at least keep the bullets falling within ten feet of the enemies cover after the first round is fired. Research your point before making an argument.

How many midrange ammunition types are they using??? Id be pissed if I had to fill out those acquisition forms.
My dad and uncle had a fairly high success rate with the M14 especially after they found out that the M16 was shit they went back to the supply Sergent and put in a request to get the M14's back. Its not going to give you walking fire but as far as being proned out with the bi pod you can still get suppressing fire.

Ive been shooting .308 round rifles for YEARS mind you. And there's no reason to get pissy.

By the way if were going to talk about the BAR and its original caliber the 30.06 and how its weight held it down, this is true but the M14 with a bipod is just a couple pounds lighter. The catch is the 7.62x51 has 20% LESS recoil meaning that the recoil will balance out the weight issue.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050925-israel-bullets.htm

They have to carry a lot of bullets and the M-14 is horribly suited for that task.

And you would think that the recoil wouldn't be that big a deal but the BAR weighed about 20 pounds and the M-14 weighs about 12 pounds. It is too light too fire full auto with anything resembling accuracy. The M-14 wasn't even based on the BAR it is essentially a highly modified M-1 Garand. Your dad and uncle were probably using the M-14 back when A) the M-16 was full auto instead of burst and they didn't have to pick up as much slack and B) When the M-16 actually had substantial jamming problems which were not the fault of the weapons design but something that the accountants were responsible for which were all fixed during the Vietnam war. The original M-16 was shit, the M-16A1 introduced a few years later fixed all the major problems and it has received continuous updates since then. It fills its role better than the M-14 would.

depending on the version of the BAR your looking at, the 1918 model weighed in at 15 pounds. I was never claiming it was based on the BAR, I said it could fill the role of the BAR, although it was intended to fill the role of the M1 and bridge over into the BAR's territory, at the time it was conceived and then chosen its only other competitor was the AR-10. Well yea the M16 nowadays does because the rifle has been constantly updated it over the 40 years its been in service,you can still only pump through 6,000 - 6500 rounds of ammunition before it needs to go in for an overhaul. If you want to go that route I would suggest looking at the M-14 EBR that came out in 2004 as a special request by Navy seals wanting a larger punch. (Wikipedia shows the sniper version with an 18 inch barrel but you can modify it with a 10 in for close in or a 22in if you really want to go the distance) Besides you dont need to keep the enemys head down behind a wall when you can shoot through their cover or kill them with concrete shrapnel. Ive seen them punch through 2 cinder blocks and with armor piercing rounds go through 8 inches of solid concrete or 7mm of high strength steel (under 300 yards). The 5.56 at longer ranges was very effective because the round would pitch and yaw when it got inside a person but at shorter ranges it would sometimes just go right, straight through and it wouldn't necessarily kill the target with 1 or 3 shots (its the same reason why I dislike the 9mm)

Sure you have a little more punch and can fire a few more bullets but we get back to the weight issue. It is better to have a shitload of bullets than a few high powered bullets. The M-16 does its job better than the M-14 would which while nice as a sniper rifle is too light to maintain automatic fire. If more of the rifles weight was concentrated on the front it might not jump as much but sadly it is more back heavy than the BAR which as you are aware has an extremely heavy barrel and front end compared to the M-14. You carry too few bullets with the M-14, the recoil is to heavy to maintain a steady rate of automatic fire, it is heavier than the M-16 and M-4 further decreasing what the soldier can carry and it can have a nasty tendency to over-penetrate which is horrible to have happen in modern warzones due friendly fire on civilians and fellow soldiers. It also costs more and a majority still use a classic rifle configuration. Even with EBR update it is too bulky and unwieldy in urban combat (where over-penetration poses the biggest hazard). Urban combat is where a majority of modern engagements take place so it places the M-14 at a somewhat unfortunate disadvantage. The short range problem has been known to occur on some M-4s but is absent on the M-16 due to much higher muzzle velocity and it usually happens with AP ammo designed to defeat Russian body armor (Which has less stopping power for all weapons using it due to reduced bullet tumble inside a target). Once again the M-16 does the job it has been assigned better than the M-14 would. Considering all that and the fact that the reliability problems have been fixed with a failure rate of about 1% and if it does fail then it takes only a few seconds to fix the problem ever since its early upgrades. So why switch back and start what is essentially a sniper rifle without a scope for standard infantry work?

 

[ecoho]

Ok first off anyone who put the AK 47 or M1 gerand down as the worst rifles never fired them or only fired a cheap version when speaking of the AK 47.Another thing for all you Halo/MW2 players FULL AUTO IS NOT HOW YOU SHOULD FIRE A RIFLE!

OT: M 16 any generation all i can say is i want a rifle that was designed to kill not maim.

the AK-47 is the cheap version.
it is a cheap gun

even the AKMs suffer problems of unruley kick, flexing, and weak round. and they even buffed up the frame to handle it better. the weapon is taxing to fire for prolonged periods of time, its recoil pulls you off to the right and makes it hard to line up subsquent single shots. and i am not a fan of its open sites which is very easy to lose in shooting. the off center bolt really doesn't help either.

ok what is considered the AK 47 by most people is the one that was made near the end of the cold war by the USSR. This weapon is NOT an AK 47 this is a cheap peace of crap the real AK 47 was made in 1947 with stamped steel parts which is how the american and afgan ones are made. as to the sights IF youve been trained on the M 16 (which BTW has iron sights exactly like the AK 47) you can and will fire accuretly. Also its always nice to mention that the
AK-47 can use ANY asault rifle round makeing it extreemly versital. As to its kick and recoil its no worse then an M 16 unless your an idiot who has it on burts or full auto which is exactly what the military tells you NOT to do. You fire an asault rifle on a single round bases, full auto is only good for supressing fire and depleating ammo.

... you must have never picked up an AK in your life.

the AK-47 sites are located half way down the gun and are a raised ladder site.
the M-16 ironsites are located just above the reciever and are dialed in circle site.

that statement alone more or less proved you have no idea what you're talking about, but i'll continue to destroy your post any ways.

the AK-47 is a specific gun which holds the name AK-47. you have diffrent Productions of AK-47 based on the year and place of production but regardless all of these weapons are AK-47s. of course, you're not talking about that. you are confusing the AK-47 with the AK-74, the rifle adopted by the russian army during the 70s.

the AK-47 is chambered to fire the 7.62mm by 39mm round. it can not shoot any other round besides that one round. the 5.45mm x 39mm round does not seat properly and will not be struck by the firing pin resulting in the round not firing. the 5.56mm (NATO) and the 7.62mm (NATO) rounds are too large for the chamber (5.56mm is 45mm long, the 7.62mm is 51mm long) preventing in the chamber from closing completely. if you happened to pull the trigger with this round loaded it would explode in your hands. killing you.

now you can change out the reciever and like parts in order to make the weapon accept these rounds... but at that point it stops being an AK-47 and changes to a diffrent designation. for instance the AK-74 is machined to accept the 5.45mmX39mm round, the AK-101 is machined to accept the 5.56mmX45mm NATO rounds. and as to this date, i do not believe any AK (outside possibly the SVD and PKM) have been modified to accept 7.62mm NATO rounds at all.


as to the kick.
the bolt of the AK-47 is off centered, that is there is more weight on one side of the gun then the other. you can tell because the Iconic AK reciever. that giant chromed catch you pull to charge the gun... a single shot of this will pull it up and to the right. to further compound this, the AK-47 lacks any muzzle break which means the escaping gasses further push the gun in which ever direction it is going. even in single shot this gun gives you a kick.

ok im not gonna fight with you guys anymore beleave what you want. BTW just want to make this clear i have fired an AK 47 (which as you said may be an AK 74 or another of its close relitives though the armsman told me it was an AK 47 so if i was missinformed i apolize) it kicked less then my M 16 about the same as my M4 but then again it was a US made AK. I like the dam thing alot more then the M 16(or as me and a few others call it the plasic peace of shit not as much as my M4(and yes i know an M4 is an M 16 but smaller IDW i like it more maybe because its a bit more user friendly IDK) or my G 36 which is by far my favorit rifle

OT i now have a new hated weapon its called the UZI how can anyone use the inacuret peice of shit?

 

[Starke]

ok im not gonna fight with you guys anymore beleave what you want.

It's not belief when it's guys who know what they're talking about. When you're spouting off bullshit like "you can feed ANY round into an AK47 and have it fire" expect to be mocked and have your veracity questioned.

BTW just want to make this clear i have fired an AK 47 (which as you said may be an AK 74 or another of its close relitives though the armsman told me it was an AK 47 so if i was missinformed i apolize) it kicked less then my M 16 about the same as my M4 but then again it was a US made AK.

Could be an AK74... they use a weaker intermediate cartridge than the M16. Could be an AK101, which uses 5.56. Could be something like a SIG 550 with modified sights and the guy was talking about the internals, but the 550 doesn't even LOOK like an AK47 externally. The issue is, the AKs are all Russian produced (or from other former Warsaw pact countries like Czechoslovakia). The 101 and 102 were intended for foreign consumers, however. As AT explained it to me:

You're actually referring to the AK-101/102 family of weapons. They are nothing more than AK-74's chambered for 5.56 though, so you're still right.

They were designed for export only. Basically, a cash grab aimed at NATO countries.

The other issue is, if you've got range time on an AK-47, or for that matter just about ANY Warsaw pact weapon, how can you possibly mistake it's sighting for the M16's?

I like the dam thing alot more then the M 16(or as me and a few others call it the plasic peace of shit not as much as my M4(and yes i know an M4 is an M 16 but smaller IDW i like it more maybe because its a bit more user friendly IDK) or my G 36 which is by far my favorit rifle

You want a plastic piece of shit, look to the AN98, (though I am going by reputation, not first hand experience).

OT i now have a new hated weapon its called the UZI how can anyone use the inacuret peice of shit?

I've never really understood the fascination with anything from IMI (excluding the Gali), but that's just me.

 

[Starke]

Edit - The receivers were originally milled steel, the AKM was all stamped steel however. Moreover Kalashnikov wasn't even wholly responsible for the weapon as the russians forced Schmeisser, the guy responsible for the STG '44, to work on it with him. Which means Kalashnikov probably had very little to do with it's invention.

Huh. That does explain why the MP43 looks so much like a (slightly more) modern AK. Thanks.

 

[Roamin11]

An unloaded one... I just can't get those ones to fire!!

 

[Pyro Paul]

Could be an AK74... they use a weaker intermediate cartridge than the M16. Could be an AK101, which uses 5.56. Could be something like a SIG 550 with modified sights and the guy was talking about the internals, but the 550 doesn't even LOOK like an AK47 externally. The issue is, the AKs are all Russian produced (or from other former Warsaw pact countries like Czechoslovakia). The 101 and 102 were intended for foreign consumers, however. As AT explained it to me

there is some validity in his statment.

a lot of small american gun companies and personal owners modify AKs to fit the american market or their own personal tastes.
things like this:

that is an AK-47... except modified to have a super short barrel.

they do everything from modifing the reciever to accept diffrent rounds, adding sites or the modular rail system, even changing the trigger grouping or placement of select fire.

i know of one guy that owns an AK-47 Bullpup

These are technically AK-47s because the user took an AK and did some amateur modification to it... it is just that these weapons are not really AK-47s... they are modified AKs and really lack any designation.

 

[OceanRunner]

The potato cannon. Sure, it stings, but a bullet from a real gun is so much more effective.

In all seriousness, the Desert Eagle.

I also agree with the spud gun.

 

[Starke]

Could be an AK74... they use a weaker intermediate cartridge than the M16. Could be an AK101, which uses 5.56. Could be something like a SIG 550 with modified sights and the guy was talking about the internals, but the 550 doesn't even LOOK like an AK47 externally. The issue is, the AKs are all Russian produced (or from other former Warsaw pact countries like Czechoslovakia). The 101 and 102 were intended for foreign consumers, however. As AT explained it to me

there is some validity in his statment.

a lot of small american gun companies and personal owners modify AKs to fit the american market or their own personal tastes.

Spoiler: things like this:

that is an AK-47... except modified to have a super short barrel.

they do everything from modifing the reciever to accept diffrent rounds, adding sites or the modular rail system, even changing the trigger grouping or placement of select fire.

Spoiler: i know of one guy that owns an AK-47 Bullpup

These are technically AK-47s because the user took an AK and did some amateur modification to it... it is just that these weapons are not really AK-47s... they are modified AKs and really lack any designation.

Okay, that explains the "American" AK he was handling, but now, how do we explain his inability to distinguish the sights?

 

[DefunctTheory]

ok im not gonna fight with you guys anymore beleave what you want. BTW just want to make this clear i have fired an AK 47 (which as you said may be an AK 74 or another of its close relitives though the armsman told me it was an AK 47 so if i was missinformed i apolize) it kicked less then my M 16 about the same as my M4 but then again it was a US made AK. I like the dam thing alot more then the M 16(or as me and a few others call it the plasic peace of shit not as much as my M4(and yes i know an M4 is an M 16 but smaller IDW i like it more maybe because its a bit more user friendly IDK) or my G 36 which is by far my favorit rifle

OT i now have a new hated weapon its called the UZI how can anyone use the inacuret peice of shit?

You criticize the M16 as being a plastic piece of shit, yet you prefer an M4. The weapon that is functionally the same as an M16, just with decreased range (Shorter barrel), more recoil (Shorter butts tock spring), gets dirtier, faster than the M16, much flimsier than the M16 due to its garbage stock, a miserable rear sight that does not have an adverse conditions back up, and, despite what you claim, is about as user friendly as an M16 (Which is possibly the most user friendly assault rifle ever produced, barring cleaning it). Right...

As for the Uzi, it does it's job remarkably well. Granted, its only job is to murder people at ranges from 0-50 meters, but it does it well anyway.

Okay, that explains the "American" AK he was handling, but now, how do we explain his inability to distinguish the sights?

You don't. Anyone who's used an M16 remembers the front sight post... that miserable thing has caused me more pain than any woman I can remember.

 

[gunmun]

Desurt Eagle

 

[Abanic]

These are the sort of things I was thinking of and wondering if anyone had any input on. I'm trying to limit the focus of the topic to guns that actually had a production, as opposed to some dangerous toy made by an amateur gunsmith.

This one actually sounds made up, but it was actually produced: the rocket pistol. A normal sized pistol that fires tiny rockets at the enemy. About 900 of these things were produced, some were tested for Vietnam, and one was featured in the James Bond movie You Only Live Twice. The type of weapon was called a Gyrojet, and the pistol was called "the Rocketeer". The company experimented with several other types of Gyrojets: pistol, rifle, assault rifle, carbine, derringer, & light machine gun.

Inaccurate + unreliable + and rounds that cost $100 each = worst gun ever!

 

[natster43]

Supposedly the XM8 was pretty shit, I still cant figure out why the Battlefield Bad Company games have a raging hard-on for it and its family.

I am pretty sure the XM8 was supposed to replace the M16 before they scrapped the Idea.
OT Probably the original M16. It would constantly jam, was hard to clean and the sight needed to constantly be readjusted.

 

[PabsColumbo]

The AK-47 is one of the worst. Yeah, it's a quick fire rate, and it almost never jams, but that doesn't fix the terrible accuracy, the strength needed to wield it(it's not heavy, but start firing it and you have a real problem with it not jerking up and blowing YOUR face off) the enormous recoil, and when it DOES finally overheat and jam, you can NEVER use it again.

Also, and I know I'm gonna catch a TON of flak for this, but fragmentation grenades and shotguns. They're both VERY situational,. and with the frag grenade you have as much chance of injuring/killing yourself as others if you don't use it properly.
And shotguns are pretty much pathetic if someone's more than 10 feet away from you.

If your using a 3 inch sabo deer slugs your going to be able to kill at 220-250 meters.

I've answered this about a million times. I was taking liberties with the aiming, and hunting slugs are different than battle slugs. A battle slug sprays areas with a larger radius to nullify a room and put people down faster. A hunting slug keeps the pellets closer together to do more damage.

Yeah sorry not buying that as an excuse, It can't be considered a situational weapon IF it can kill effectively at 220-250 meters with no modification (just change of ammo)

Either way by your standards doesn?t that mean the long barrelled Sniper rifles like Barrett M82 should be included; you just try and fire it in a close quarters fire fight

Better still why can?t we include guns with rubber bullets like some law enforcements come with they're pretty useless in a fire fight


Now on the .22 rifles, the Chinese use them for border control not for military engagements, forgive me for thinking that not killing people, merely incapacitating them is a good idea, but yeah it's still a bad gun, just stop riping on the border control, they don't want to kill!


And onto the AK sure it's a pig of a gun it kicks like a mule, but it does it on both ends AND it kills people for a few cents a gun, It's a whole lot better than your making it out, This is why it stood the test of time better than any other rifle

Oh and on the soviet doctrine to full auto fire, I call BULLSHIT, No military would ever encourage needless waste of ammunition and have never seen any evidence to the contrary, sure they have full auto as a sort of emergency use and many training exercises has use of full auto but never as a basis of military doctrine, It borders on retarded and makes no sense (economically or militarily)


So yeah I?d say the Desert eagle is one of the worst weapons, does it fit the purpose of a sidearm, no it?s heavy, it has horrible accuracy, range, recoil, and is horribly expensive to boot

BUT i have another weapon to add to the bunch, the .50 cal Beowulf AR 15; this had a worse kick than most modern assault rifles, worse range, Very expensive, and unreliable (It?s firing mechanisms where designed original for the .223 Remington and now it's firing a .50 cal round)

 

[Wadders]

Supposedly the XM8 was pretty shit, I still cant figure out why the Battlefield Bad Company games have a raging hard-on for it and its family.

I am pretty sure the XM8 was supposed to replace the M16 before they scrapped the Idea.
OT Probably the original M16. It would constantly jam, was hard to clean and the sight needed to constantly be readjusted.

It was. They scrapped the idea, because it was shit.

But yeah the fact that it was hoped to replace the M16 probably enticed the BF:BC developers to put it in their game.

 

[Enemy Of The State]

Rhodesian Uzi ('RUZI')

Manufactured as an Uzi clone during the Rhodesian Revolution. When it wasn't jamming, it would randomly burst-fire when the trigger was pulled once. Unreliable and prone to exploding.

 

[Starke]

Rhodesian Uzi ('RUZI')

Manufactured as an Uzi clone during the Rhodesian Revolution. When it wasn't jamming, it would randomly burst-fire when the trigger was pulled once. Unreliable and prone to exploding.

And I thought the Czech AK47s were bad...

OT i now have a new hated weapon its called the UZI how can anyone use the inacuret peice of shit?

As for the Uzi, it does it's job remarkably well. Granted, its only job is to murder people at ranges from 0-50 meters, but it does it well anyway.

My only experience was ass and recoil, but I wouldn't want to be down range of .45 slugs flying in those quantities.

Okay, that explains the "American" AK he was handling, but now, how do we explain his inability to distinguish the sights?

You don't. Anyone who's used an M16 remembers the front sight post... that miserable thing has caused me more pain than any woman I can remember.

Does the M16 uses the same front sight as the Z-M LR300? That fucking little spindly piece of shit forward sight between two "guards", who's only role is to make sure it's impossible to fix the fucking thing once it gets hit by a mild gust of wind? Or is it different? (Has no time on an M16 outside of games... oddly.)

 

[tigermilk]

Whats the worst gun? The one in the hand of the enemy!

p.s. Don't know if I have been ninja'd.