Whats up with Turn Based games?

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The_Blue_Rider

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So lately I've been playing one of my favourite games of all time ever, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age. Its a turn based Lord of the Rings game set during the events of the films (Im not going to say books because the game is clearly far more inspired by the film series), but following a different band of heroes that occasionally meet up with the main cast of the series.

Now I'm up to the last area, and I've noticed just how bullshit the difficulty is getting, mainly in the fact that enemies never seem to miss, its very easy for them to get criticals, they can dodge my attacks with ease (Even from the characters that I have spent a lot of dexterity points on, so its not because I'm lazy with my skill point distribution), they get a shitload of turns (approximately twice as many as me), they have a riduculous amount of health, most enemies do enough damage to two or three shot my strongest character (who has roughly twice as much health as half the guys in my party) they're resistant to pretty much every form of damage, and most aggravatingly, status effects do not work on them either!

This is really glaring since in every part up to this has been somewhat fair, especially since no grinding has been required, even on the hardest difficulty.
But out of all the problems I just listed, the one that really got me was how status effects really stopped working halfway through the game.
And then I realized, in a lot of turn based RPG's status effects tend to be treated like shit, I know they could make battles too easy, but surely isnt there a better way of balancing them instead of just making everything resistant to them?

The massive difficulty spike really gets me too, I really wish I could've been eased into it instead of it all just being thrown at face.

Also I feel like I should make a note of this, these arent special opponents Im talking about these, these are your average orcs who you would have been fighting for the entire game. I get the fact that enemies should get progressively stronger but making them like this is just a dick move.

Huh, this is probably more of a rant about The Third Age, but I remember some of these problems being present in few other Turn Based RPG's I've played over the years (especially the bullshit difficulty), which sucks because I actually do really like these types of games. Character progression is always a really satisfying feeling for me, and in Turn Based RPG's, your character practically transforms over the course of the game.

Maybe its just because I play bad ones (or at least made with a few bad decisions).

So Escapists any other aggravating things about Turn Based games you feel like venting? Anyone else ever played, or at least heard of The Third Age? Any really good turn based games you want to recommend to me? (Note: Only games for the 360, PS3, PS2 and PS1, and dont suggest Dragonquest VIII, Eternal Sonata, or Valkyria Chronicles because I'm planning on going back to those alread. Or Pokemon since I already love the shit out of that)
 

NerfedFalcon

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I thought Pokemon wasn't on the 360, PS3, PS2 or PS1. I'm getting mixed messages here.
 

The_Blue_Rider

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leet_x1337 said:
I thought Pokemon wasn't on the 360, PS3, PS2 or PS1. I'm getting mixed messages here.
Oh, that totally slipped my mind, at the end there I was racking my brains for other Turn Based RPG's I really enjoyed and Pokemon came up. Now I remember I dont have a Gameboy anymore
 

Archangel768

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I loved the third age. I finally picked up an Xbox copy of it this year and it was still quite fun although the quality of the acting etc was worse than I remembered all those years ago.

If you really enjoyed the battle system in that you should play Final Fantasy X. The Third Age basically ripped off the battle system from FFX. Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing considering FFX has my favourite battle system of all time.
 

BlueberryMUNCH

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Third age!
Forgot about that game! LOL I remember getting so stuck on it and giving up. Ugh goddamnit I'm tempted to buy another PS2 and get it. Good game!

Sorry to hear it gets so unfair though. But yeah, it happens:/. I suppose some grinding is needed and encouraged so the whole game isn't just a cakewalk.

Take up the challenge! Destroy theeeeeeem!

Archangel768 said:
If you really enjoyed the battle system in that you should play Final Fantasy X. The Third Age basically ripped off the battle system from FFX. Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing considering FFX has my favourite battle system of all time.
Yup! Same! More games need to rip off FFX:(
[small]...like all of the new Final Fantasy games...[/small]
 

The_Blue_Rider

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BlueberryMUNCH said:
Third age!
Forgot about that game! LOL I remember getting so stuck on it and giving up. Ugh goddamnit I'm tempted to buy another PS2 and get it. Good game!

Sorry to hear it gets so unfair though. But yeah, it happens:/. I suppose some grinding is needed and encouraged so the whole game isn't just a cakewalk.

Take up the challenge! Destroy theeeeeeem!

Archangel768 said:
If you really enjoyed the battle system in that you should play Final Fantasy X. The Third Age basically ripped off the battle system from FFX. Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing considering FFX has my favourite battle system of all time.
Yup! Same! More games need to rip off FFX:(
[small]...like all of the new Final Fantasy games...[/small]
To be fair the "unfairness" seems to be only present on the hardest difficulty, I don't remember there being this much bullshit on the easy and normal settings.

Although I guess thats starting to turn into a problem with difficulty settings.

Anyway with FFX I think I got up to that big underwater football tournament before I gave it back to my friend. Im tempted to get a copy of my own since the game was pretty enjoyable.
Except I wasnt completely sure what was happening for most of the time I was playing the game, It didnt really make much sense. And Tidus was a bit annoying
 

BlueberryMUNCH

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The_Blue_Rider said:
BlueberryMUNCH said:
Third age!
Forgot about that game! LOL I remember getting so stuck on it and giving up. Ugh goddamnit I'm tempted to buy another PS2 and get it. Good game!

Sorry to hear it gets so unfair though. But yeah, it happens:/. I suppose some grinding is needed and encouraged so the whole game isn't just a cakewalk.

Take up the challenge! Destroy theeeeeeem!

Archangel768 said:
If you really enjoyed the battle system in that you should play Final Fantasy X. The Third Age basically ripped off the battle system from FFX. Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing considering FFX has my favourite battle system of all time.
Yup! Same! More games need to rip off FFX:(
[small]...like all of the new Final Fantasy games...[/small]
To be fair the "unfairness" seems to be only present on the hardest difficulty, I don't remember there being this much bullshit on the easy and normal settings.

Although I guess thats starting to turn into a problem with difficulty settings.

Anyway with FFX I think I got up to that big underwater football tournament before I gave it back to my friend. Im tempted to get a copy of my own since the game was pretty enjoyable.
Except I wasnt completely sure what was happening for most of the time I was playing the game, It didnt really make much sense. And Tidus was a bit annoying
Ah fair enough then:].

Yeah, that's hardly anything into the game haha. Really, it's one of my favorite games of all time. And yeah fair enough, it is really confusing at the start. But all is explained throughout the game:].
And yeah, Tidus is a whinger at the start...but can you blame him? Washed up in pretty much another world all alone. You gotta sympathise.
Also, he really grows as a person as the story unfolds; by the end, he's definitely likable.

I cannot recommend it enough. If you have a PS3, wait for the HD retexture. Also, if you don't wanna play it yourself, I can definitely recommend a Let's Play by a youtube user called Dario8676. I watched it very recently and it was superb.
 

Jandau

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nikki191 said:
baldurs gate 2 throne of bhaal ramped the dificulty up to a stupid degree too. if you werent intimately familiar with the magic system, knew how to interupt spells and had spell triggers set not to mention how to correctly dispel things you were screwed
To be fair, if you didn't know how to handle spellcasters (dispelling protections and such) you were screwed in vanilla Baldur's Gate as well...
 

Cheesepower5

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Well, since there haven't been many suggestions, I'll get the roll ballin'.

PS1:
Wild ARMs
Suikoden($1 on PSN)
Suikoden II
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics(on PSN)
Xenogears

PS2:
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
SMT: Persona 3 FES
SMT: Persona 4
SMT: Digital Devil Saga
SMT: Digital Devil Saga 2
SMT Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha XIV vs King Abaddon
Final Fantasy X
Suikoden 3
Suikoden V(IV is blacksheep of the series; it's okay, but has annoyances)
Wild ARMs 3(2 and 1 are kind of same-y, I'd recommend skipping 2)

XBOX 360:
Lost Odyssey

... There really aren't many turn-based games on new consoles. If you wanna try the great new TB games, I'd recommend a 3DS with Dragon Quest IX(DS), SMT: Strange Journey(DS), SMT: Devil Survivor Overclocked(3DS) and SMT: Devil Survivor 2(DS). Or download some great indie titles on PC, since they have a few really good looking turn-based games. I can't wait for The Banner Saga!
 

Fappy

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The only really annoying things in turned based games are enemy abilities that will automatically knock your entire party's HP to 1. This isn't a big deal in games that have full HP heals, but not all of them do.

I just finished Persona 4 and it had one of the best turn-based systems I have ever seen. Really fun and status ailments are actually a big deal.

Though, I think my favorite turn-based systems have a good combination of skill + strategy. Mario RPG and Legends of Dragoon are good examples of this with the button timing and all that.
 

jebara

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Only turn based games I played are the SMT games and Pokemon, but I really recommend them, especially Persona 4, my favorite game ever.
 

The Wykydtron

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Ohhhh Third Age... I remember that game. I probably completed it on normal or easy but I don't think it was that hard.

Anyway when you get to Helm's Deep and get some actual recognisable characters in the party it goes straight into easy mode.

I remember Aragorn having some total bullshit attacks that would absolutely destroy everything.

I also remember not knowing how to switch party members. So the whole game was Team Original Party Members unintentionally.

See when I do that in Persona 4 it's because Yukiko is awesome, Chie has the best assist in the game and Yosuke is entertaining.

Right turn based games go like this for me:

Do I have to grind? If yes I will more then likely not bother with it. If no i'll probably get pretty far with it if it has an interesting story.

Yeah Persona 4 has the best turn based combat i've seen and has the best anti-grinding mechanic that also seamlessly blends into the story and overall themes of the game.

Simply put, Persona 4 is baist.


OH and Lost Odyssey, I don't know if you had to grind exactly but I remember getting stuck on some soliders (which i'm informed is a supposed to lose fight anyway so fuck you) and there were two catapillar things as bosses before that I think.

The level up system completely went over my head at that age. I had no idea what the fuck was going on so I might have been level 1 fighting everything as good as.

Plus it has random battles so that's a -1 in my eyes. I might still enjoy it now if I went and rebought it. Anyone got a recommendation for it?
 

themyrmidon

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HoM&M 5 and Civ 5 both use cheating AI, giving the AI more resources on higher levels to compensate for lack of actual intelligence. This leads to getting steamrolled trying to play lategame in HoM&M and needing to grow fast early game in Civ 5.

Fire Emblem takes a good approach by just throwing more enemies at you at higher difficulty.
 

DionysusSnoopy

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Man i remember the Third Age i did play though i have vague recollections of how it was. As for a turn based Last Remnant i found fun you create small groups of fighters for your party then you direct the groups in combat rather than individual characters its quite a novel system.
 

Matt King

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i loved the third age, i used to play it with my friend years ago but we could never get past helms deep then i got it a few weeks ago and easily tanked through it,

a good turn based game (i think it's on ps2, it was on xbox and gamecube) is gladius, it's fucking awesome although i never finished it because my gamecube broke
 

Darkmantle

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You mean my strategy of having the ranger just insta sleeping everything wouldn't work all the way through???? D: But that's how I got through helms deep!!!!! D: D: D:
 

Darkmantle

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Matt King said:
i loved the third age, i used to play it with my friend years ago but we could never get past helms deep then i got it a few weeks ago and easily tanked through it,

a good turn based game (i think it's on ps2, it was on xbox and gamecube) is gladius, it's fucking awesome although i never finished it because my gamecube broke
Sorry for double post, but I have to post support here. Gladius is my favourite turn based game of all time!

Word of warning, the tutorial is woefully inadequate, so you will likely get frustrated at some of the difficulty spikes (when going to new lands for example) but once you get into the groove with it, it's simply amazing.
 

Magikarp

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I really enjoyed the 3rd age, although I agree the difficulty spike was annoying. Towards the end, my strategy was to get Idrial to use frenzy, aura of the valar, then loudwater fury. This made her unbeatable, & was the only way I could win some fights.
 

hermes

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The issues you bring up seems to be more about the game themselves than the gameplay mechanic.

The game that you mention has some serious balance issues... I remember playing LOTR up until you get to Minas Morgul, and although it was fairly easy most of the times, it got a huge peak on the difficulty at that point, mostly because, before that, the game was filled with guest characters that could completely obliterate the enemies. Even when I was fairly close to the end, I barely grasped the details of the combat system (most of my battles where spent letting my characters die while only focusing on keeping the guest character alive while he dished the damage), since the difference in power between my party and Aragorn or Gandalf was huge.

But, if you enjoyed LOTR combat, you should try FF X...
 

Mr F.

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The_Blue_Rider said:
*SNIPPITY*
I dunno really. I mean, I used to play a few turn based RPG's and I thought this was a rant against my current pasttime, Turn based RTS.

Although now that I think of it, yeah, what is with the gimping of status effects halfway through most games in that genre? I mean, I used to play FF games to death, particularly number 9, and after a while status effects become pretty much pointless.

Unless the enemy has them. In which case fuck you. Heh. I think that is what irritates me the most tbh. What is the point in them at all? Or at least, what is the point in letting the player have them when they will become pointless so anything invested in status effects becomes utterly worthless?

As for recommendations? FF9. Best final fantasy IMO.