What's with "Iron Sights" in today's games?

[tkioz]

So a friend gifted me Battlefield Bad Company 2 on Steam for Christmas and I will admit that despite more normal distaste for FPS games, especially ones that try for "realism" it's not that bad, the RPG elements of gaining XP and gathering upgrades has lured me in a little.

But one thing is bugging me, what the hell is up with the sights? I noticed it with Fallout: NV and other games that I've played, every game seems to have "iron sights" when you aim, what was wrong with the damn cross hairs spread when normal and tighter when pulled in?

My personal assumption is they are going for realism with the firearms, but speaking as someone who grew up around guns, used them for sport, and competed in competitors I can safely say that no freaking games I've ever played has ever, or will likely ever, get the feel "real", the sound, the smell, the feel of kick, frankly the sights in the game are just annoying, and this coming from a man who prefers that type of sight on his rifles over a scope.

 

[thirion1850]

It's a Call of Duty thing. I guess they wanna imply that with sights your aim isn't as crap as without them which is true in -some- cases, but in the end merely makes me want to punch the developer and force them to play some Counter Strike. Games are meant to be -fun-. And if realism makes it -less- fun, then realism needs to go.

 

[Vrach]

My personal assumption is they are going for realism with the firearms, but speaking as someone who grew up around guns, used them for sport, and competed in competitors I can safely say that no freaking games I've ever played has ever, or will likely ever, get the feel "real", the sound, the smell, the feel of kick, frankly the sights in the game are just annoying, and this coming from a man who prefers that type of sight on his rifles over a scope.

Congratulations! You have an opinion!

Personally, I love the iron sights. The fact they're shit on a few weapons is an issue of it's own, but in general they're awesome and they give the game a more realistic feel. A tip btw - just because you can't replicate every single bit of reality doesn't mean the strive for realism is entirely useless. Goes for just about every other aspect in both games and real life as well.

Oh and there are vests that give bullet hit feedback and you have modifications out there that give a weapon kick. Sooner or later, it'll be relatively widely available (though not necessarily as popular).

 

[Kunzer]

My personal assumption is they are going for realism with the firearms, but speaking as someone who grew up around guns, used them for sport, and competed in competitors I can safely say that no freaking games I've ever played has ever, or will likely ever, get the feel "real", the sound, the smell, the feel of kick, frankly the sights in the game are just annoying, and this coming from a man who prefers that type of sight on his rifles over a scope.

I don't think video games will ever capture "the smell" of anything. Nor would I want them to

I can't say I want to feel any kick from video games either. "Force-Feedback" controllers vibrating while playing games was a concept that is almost as stupid as the Kinect.

Your assumption of an effort for realism in battlefield via iron sights, in my opinion, is very far off the mark.

The aspect of BFBC2 and its use of iron sights is a mechanic which requires players to *either* shoot effectively, or move. Not both.

You have to use cover effectively, move regularly, and aim carefully in order to be a good player.

I find it ironic that someone who claims to use firearms IRL thinks that aiming from the hip with crosshairs is acceptable. I don't find that to be the case at all. There is only one way I fire my weapons -- front sight on the target. I don't hold two handguns in each hand like a jackass, wasting ammunition. I don't "shoot from the hip" either. That clown business belongs in movies.

 

[tkioz]

My personal assumption is they are going for realism with the firearms, but speaking as someone who grew up around guns, used them for sport, and competed in competitors I can safely say that no freaking games I've ever played has ever, or will likely ever, get the feel "real", the sound, the smell, the feel of kick, frankly the sights in the game are just annoying, and this coming from a man who prefers that type of sight on his rifles over a scope.

Congratulations! You have an opinion!

Congratulations! You sound like a jerk!

Personally, I love the iron sights. The fact they're shit on a few weapons is an issue of it's own, but in general they're awesome and they give the game a more realistic feel.

Maybe if they were optional rather then mandatory I wouldn't care, but they are mandatory. How hard would it be to have an extra set of cross hairs... not bloody very.

A tip btw - just because you can't replicate every single bit of reality doesn't mean the strive for realism is entirely useless. Goes for just about every other aspect in both games and real life as well.

By definition something that is real is real, and frankly a lot of things in reality suck, I don't need that crap in my fun.

Experience and upgrades are hardly 'RPG elements'. Maybe in the most minute sense of the word.

OT: New Vegas is an RPG, not an FPS. It stands to reason that the RPG mechanics of statistics and dice rolls (chance) would play more into the game's combat than iron sight aiming.

I consider anything ripped off from RPGs to be an RPG element and frankly I'd grind anything given the chance, just seeing that little XP bar grow keeps me interested.

Fallout NV from what I could see chance only entered into it with damage and if you used VATS, otherwise you just had the PITA aiming system.

 

[SNIPERFOX ft. Harry P.Ness]

im going to try modify my mouse for force feedback, it quite weak, but its coming along nicely

 

[tkioz]

I find it ironic that someone who claims to use firearms IRL thinks that aiming from the hip with crosshairs is acceptable. I don't find that to be the case at all. There is only one way I fire my weapons -- front sight on the target. I don't hold two handguns in each hand like a jackass, wasting ammunition. I don't "shoot from the hip" either. That clown business belongs in movies.

Who the hell is taking about shooting from the hip or using two guns? I'm talking about a bloody video game, sighting in a target in real life is vastly different then a video game, breathing for example matters, the only time I ever saw breathing in a video game I wanted to hunt down the developers with a rusty butter knife to really make it hurt, judging the wind, and humans (or in my case animals) don't bounce around like humming birds on meth.

And the sights in the games I've see don't work the same as they do in real bloody life anyway, they are basically cross hairs with a different more annoying skin, I'd love to see a game that tried to get the sights "real", players would murder the developers, hell I've yet to see a scope{/b] done correctly in a video game, you do know they don't work as point and click right?

 

[s0m3th1ng]

Don't download the Vietnam expansion then...no Red Dot or ACOG. Which, truth be told, makes for a more gritty infantry experience. Bloody hard to spot people in the jungle too.
Also, Red Orchestra has the most "realistic" sighting mechanics I've seen. The sights waver when you move, takes a second to bring the sights into focus, everything else but a narrow tunnel around the sights is blurred, and there is no mechanic that returns the gun to center after recoil.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

My ONLY problem with iron sights on a game (which I assume is kind of needed for FPSes anyway) is that you fire WHERE the sights are. Shoot into a wall, your gun doesn't fire from the barrel, it will literally fire from the sights. Any CoD game will do that recently and it bugs me to no end.

(I have not played nor am interested in Black Ops, so perhaps it was changed? Doubtful though.)

 

[Alon Shechter]

The closest thing to a real feel of a firearm is probably ArmA 2:OA but hey, you can't FEEL a virtual kick of a gun.

 

[Vrach]

My personal assumption is they are going for realism with the firearms, but speaking as someone who grew up around guns, used them for sport, and competed in competitors I can safely say that no freaking games I've ever played has ever, or will likely ever, get the feel "real", the sound, the smell, the feel of kick, frankly the sights in the game are just annoying, and this coming from a man who prefers that type of sight on his rifles over a scope.

Congratulations! You have an opinion!

Congratulations! You sound like a jerk!

As do you by the tone of both your initial and a few followup posts, so just reacting. And sorry, but it's about the 5th time I see this thread on these forums and I just hate seeing people stating opinion as a hard boiled fact, especially when it's been proven time and again that it's not the opinion of the general majority nor even the majority of the intellectual/hardcore/whatever group you think remotely highly of (note that's not an insult of any sort, merely a statement that your opinion is in the minority, at least based on the track record of these threads I've seen in the past).

And your sole argument being based on "games can't be real" is the one I hate the most as it, as I said, equalises a strive towards something with being 100% there. It's like complaining about driving games having cars able to slide and lose control because you can never get the actual feeling of driving by pressing WSAD or even using a wheel controller because you can't feel the weight of the car etc.

Certain elements in gaming strive towards realism, but going for it 100%, even when technically possible is, as you said yourself, not even a good idea most of the time. So the developers go for something that feels somewhat more realistic while not compromising the gameplay.

And if your complaint is about iron sights blocking most of your screen (which it seems to be), that's actually the intention as it balances out the vastly more accurate aim, that again, isn't subject to exact realism itself.

Oh and as for point and click scopes, enjoy BFBC2 mate as it has a bullet drop
Granted the wind/Coriolis effect isn't there, but it's a fast paced shooter, so they don't really belong. Sniper: Ghost Warrior has the most realistic sniping I've seen so far, but as you said, the wind there changes way too often and way too fast like a bunny on crystal meth... but a step in the right direction at least, hopefully we'll see something better soon.

 

[Nouw]

I love them! Make's it realistic and not a pain in the ass to use.

 

[MrNickster]

I always thought that iron sights were only there so that it wouldn't be a wasted button if you tried to use a scope on a weapon that doesn't have one. I think the big reason virtually every shooter has them is because it looks cool when they're used and can help you tu quickly recentre your aim.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

every game seems to have "iron sights" when you aim, what was wrong with the damn cross hairs spread when normal and tighter when pulled in?

.

Well, here's a few reasons I would imagine it exists:

1. It feels good. Left trigger to zoom, right to fire.... it's a simple mechanic that feels good to a lot of gamers.

2. It's more natural. I feel wierd when I zoom in and the crosshairs just gets smaller as the gun sits on the right of the screen. It just doesn't feel as immersive.

3. It's a tactical mechanic. You sacrifice movement speed for greater accuracy.

 

[Woodsey]

I like them, and I hate the crosshair being pulled in tighter (and I get rid of the crosshair in most FPS games now anyway).

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well reality and fun don't mix, so shooting for realistic anything will end up in less fun, that is why CoD is more of a Mario Kart type thing(even tho they claim realism).

Not a big fan of iron sights either, I don't mind if the gun centers at the bottom of the screen and you get a tight cross-hair, but games now days just want to cover up half the damn screen, it really wouldn't hurt to have that shit optional.

 

[tkioz]

I find it ironic that someone who claims to use firearms IRL thinks that aiming from the hip with crosshairs is acceptable. I don't find that to be the case at all. There is only one way I fire my weapons -- front sight on the target. I don't hold two handguns in each hand like a jackass, wasting ammunition. I don't "shoot from the hip" either. That clown business belongs in movies.

Who the hell is taking about shooting from the hip or using two guns? I'm talking about a bloody video game, sighting in a target in real life is vastly different then a video game, breathing for example matters, the only time I ever saw breathing in a video game I wanted to hunt down the developers with a rusty butter knife to really make it hurt, judging the wind, and humans (or in my case animals) don't bounce around like humming birds on meth.

And the sights in the games I've see don't work the same as they do in real bloody life anyway, they are basically cross hairs with a different more annoying skin, I'd love to see a game that tried to get the sights "real", players would murder the developers, hell I've yet to see a scope{/b] done correctly in a video game, you do know they don't work as point and click right?

You do know wind that affects the bullet is quite impossible to implement with our technology right? Wind, at least from what i have seen, is merely decoration used for levels. It has almost no tangible effect with bullets.

we're talking about real life, which very much does affect bullets, shooting isn't a "red neck" hobby that most people assume it is, you need to know a fair bit of applied math, what type of round you are using, the powder, the grain, all that effects how it will fly.