Whats with TV shows so heavily focused on Death?

[DudeistBelieve]

I'm talking Game Of Thrones, Akame Ga Kill, Walking Dead...

Is it me or are shows these days really fucking nihilistic? Like we have these shows were the essential conflict happens, and it's never going to get better for the protagonists. There is no hope for a happy ending. And look, it maybe good story telling to chase our protagonists up a tree and throw rocks at them but it's just so fucking bleak.

I feel like TV shows these days are just like "Here's cute little puppy dog, it's yours. Love it." and then "Okay, it's been 3 months. Sit right there, I'm going to beat your dog to death with this ball point hammer. Oh don't cry, heres another Puppy." and then theres another hammer.

You can argue even that it's realistic, but oh my God real life is so fucking horrible who wants this to be their escapist fantasy?

 

[Chris Mosher]

Well GoT has been this nihilistic since 1996.

And different people like different things which result in trends like the focus on more realistic portrayals of violence and death. There are more optimistic fantasy shows like the Flash on i think the Shannara series will not suffer from the nihilism of the shows you mentioned.

 

[Mudman1234]

You're choosing not even a dozen TV shows over the how many hundreds if not thousands that are broadcast each year?

Not to mention HBO has been doing this shit since Oz back in 97. It's hardly new.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Not having a happy ending doesn't make something "nihilistic". The Entourage movie is about a billion times more genuinely nihilistic than anything Game of Thrones could throw at you.

If something makes you sad, that's because it has a meaning and sincerity which is kind of the opposite of nihilism. Heck, the hollow pursuit of happiness for the sake of happiness would be a pretty good working definition of nihilism.

But yeah, dramatic realism (the deliberate subversion of narrative rules, for example the idea that protagonists are special or important because they are protagonists) goes back to at least the 19th century.

 

[Zhukov]

Because adversity and conflict is essential to a good story?

If the protagonists are not at risk and do not lose anything then who gives a flying fuck?

Also, I never understood where Game of Thrones got this "everybody dies" reputation from. So far two main point-of-view characters have died. Two. In five seasons. (You could argue that it's only one in the books.)

Apart from that it's just a whole load of secondary and minor characters dropping dead along the way. Which really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Why focus on TV? Games, movies, music - obsession with death. I used to be into it so I can't blame people, but am rather curious as to why it's happening.

 

[FalloutJack]

Hey, Evil Dead stuff went into the business of death before it was cool! I will not hear any criticism now!

(Not being serious here. Say whatever gives you pleasure.)

Suffice to say, death is a part of life. Can't really do much about it.

 

[Dimitriov]

I'm talking Game Of Thrones, Akame Ga Kill, Walking Dead...

Is it me or are shows these days really fucking nihilistic? Like we have these shows were the essential conflict happens, and it's never going to get better for the protagonists. There is no hope for a happy ending. And look, it maybe good story telling to chase our protagonists up a tree and throw rocks at them but it's just so fucking bleak.

I feel like TV shows these days are just like "Here's cute little puppy dog, it's yours. Love it." and then "Okay, it's been 3 months. Sit right there, I'm going to beat your dog to death with this ball point hammer. Oh don't cry, heres another Puppy." and then theres another hammer.

You can argue even that it's realistic, but oh my God real life is so fucking horrible who wants this to be their escapist fantasy?

There's no such thing as a ball point hammer. You're thinking of a ball-peen hammer.

OT: That's not a lot of examples to make your point. I do agree that those types of shows are not usually to my taste though. Why would I watch a show where every person sucks and I just hate them all? That's how I tend to feel.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I'm talking Game Of Thrones, Akame Ga Kill, Walking Dead...

Is it me or are shows these days really fucking nihilistic? Like we have these shows were the essential conflict happens, and it's never going to get better for the protagonists. There is no hope for a happy ending. And look, it maybe good story telling to chase our protagonists up a tree and throw rocks at them but it's just so fucking bleak.

I feel like TV shows these days are just like "Here's cute little puppy dog, it's yours. Love it." and then "Okay, it's been 3 months. Sit right there, I'm going to beat your dog to death with this ball point hammer. Oh don't cry, heres another Puppy." and then theres another hammer.

You can argue even that it's realistic, but oh my God real life is so fucking horrible who wants this to be their escapist fantasy?

There's no such thing as a ball point hammer. You're thinking of a ball-peen hammer.

OT: That's not a lot of examples to make your point. I do agree that those types of shows are not usually to my taste though. Why would I watch a show where every person sucks and I just hate them all? That's how I tend to feel.

i did not know that.

Because adversity and conflict is essential to a good story?

If the protagonists are not at risk and do not lose anything then who gives a flying fuck?

Also, I never understood where Game of Thrones got this "everybody dies" reputation from. So far two main point-of-view characters have died. Two. In five seasons. (You could argue that it's only one in the books.)

Apart from that it's just a whole load of secondary and minor characters dropping dead along the way. Which really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

Yeah, but so is having a bit of hope.

Theres no hope for the Starks is there? They are NEVER going to get back what they had originally.

 

[Zhukov]

Theres no hope for the Starks is there? They are NEVER going to get back what they had originally.

Of course not. It's not loss if you get it back. It's not change if it gets reverted.

Stories rarely end with the protagonist(s) in the same situation that they started in. With good reason. That would be lame.

As for "no hope", one Stark has gone from bastard son to commander of the Night's Watch. Another has gone from tomboy daughter to cultist assassin. A third has gone from middle child to cripple to, err... magic druid prophet... thing.

 

[Fox12]

I'm fine with dark, or even nihilistic story telling, as long as there's a point. My problem with GoT and The Walking Dead is that everything feels so pointless. And not pointless in a thematic way, pointless in a way that's wasting my time. There isn't much of a real plot. Things just meander on for entire seasons, and a bunch of people die pointlessly along the way.

"I'm really excited to see where this characters arc is going next season. Oh, I guess he died from a toothache. Okay. Apparently all that character development will never get resolved then." "Oh, this three season long war is coming to a close. I wonder what's next. Oh, apparently two countries I've never heard of are getting involved now for some reason. Seems a little contrived, but that's fine. Hey, wasn't there a plot point about ice zombies and dragons? That plot line hasn't advanced in over three books? Maybe it was just my imagination."

You see, when you have multiple separate plot threads within the same story, you typically want them to converge at the end, and tie together in some way. A good example is Lord of the Rings, or Watchmen. GoT has multiple threads that barely interact. Instead of converging they become more disparate, and create even more plot threads. Eventually they become too complex and numerous, so the writers have to sever the threads without bringing them to a proper conclusion. The problem is that this makes them unnecessary in the context of the larger work, making them pointless.

I mean, Berserk and Dark Souls were horribly nihilistic, and I loved them. Eva was a little more optimistic, but it understood that everything was doomed to fade away eventually. Those stories were well told, though, with good characters and pacing. I can't stand the influx of shows that just wallow in their own misery forever.

 

[Angelblaze]

This sort of depressing view was originally meant more to be a subversion of the 'Alls well that ends well' views of many of television shows.

Instead of having that big, dramatic game-changing death or big reveal happen every season finale, they now have it happening every other episode. Now, for many people, it just feels boring because many shows think in order to keep people emotionally invested it has to be dark. Like Final Fantasy in recent years, its forgotten the 'wave' cycle of emotional attachment.

I'd like to point out I didn't read much of these posts, but Bryan Fuller (Director of Hannibal) has many of his creations portray death in a happy sense, almost in a 'it really doesn't matter' sense.

Pushing Daisies (Bryan Fuller) is, no doubt, one of the cutesiest shows I've ever watched and loved. To give you a hint of what your in for: its about a Piemaker who can bring people back from the dead, his undead girlfriend who he can't touch (because she died, he raised her and two touches kills them again and after that the power no longer works) and his cop/bounty hunting buddy.

Together they bring murder victims back from the dead (but only for a little while, as Ned has to touch them again to kill them, otherwise they'll continue to live...but someone else nearby would die.) ask them who killed them and solve the mysteries (since, you know, you can't get all the information from people who've just come back to life in less then 30 seconds).

Some of the sets are some of the greatest things to come on television in the pre-'everyone takes tv super serious now, let's throw multimillions into this' era sheerly through mere brightness and theme alone. Its adorable, its fluffy, its funny, it has lee pace in it. I just love it.

If you ever want a show that acknowledges bad things happen to people, but is totally upbeat and a little wacky about the whole thing, watch Pushing Daisies.

 

[Redryhno]

If you ever want a show that acknowledges bad things happen to people, but is totally upbeat and a little wacky about the whole thing, watch Pushing Daisies.

Don't get me wrong, Pushing Daisies is a decent show, but I still find Dead Like Me to be superior if for nothing else but Pushing Daisies just being another murder mystery show.

It explores similar themes, but actually has a really fascinating world going on in the background(unfortunately it only got two seasons and a movie I've been trying to find a copy of for years, though at least it ended on a GOOD note). Basic premise though is that death can be hilarious, depressing, or just another part of life that you don't need to be afraid of. Also they somehow managed to make disgusting murderous gremlins the funniest and cutest part of it. Also being cynical kills your inner child and you come back looking like a meth addict.

 

[Angelblaze]

If you ever want a show that acknowledges bad things happen to people, but is totally upbeat and a little wacky about the whole thing, watch Pushing Daisies.

Don't get me wrong, Pushing Daisies is a decent show, but I still find Dead Like Me to be superior if for nothing else but Pushing Daisies just being another murder mystery show.

It explores similar themes, but actually has a really fascinating world going on in the background(unfortunately it only got two seasons and a movie I've been trying to find a copy of for years, though at least it ended on a GOOD note). Basic premise though is that death can be hilarious, depressing, or just another part of life that you don't need to be afraid of. Also they somehow managed to make disgusting murderous gremlins the funniest and cutest part of it. Also being cynical kills your inner child and you come back looking like a meth addict.

Gonna be honest here, I almost forgot Dead Like Me. My mom loved that show

Last I saw, the movie was available on Netflix.

 

[Redryhno]

If you ever want a show that acknowledges bad things happen to people, but is totally upbeat and a little wacky about the whole thing, watch Pushing Daisies.

Don't get me wrong, Pushing Daisies is a decent show, but I still find Dead Like Me to be superior if for nothing else but Pushing Daisies just being another murder mystery show.

It explores similar themes, but actually has a really fascinating world going on in the background(unfortunately it only got two seasons and a movie I've been trying to find a copy of for years, though at least it ended on a GOOD note). Basic premise though is that death can be hilarious, depressing, or just another part of life that you don't need to be afraid of. Also they somehow managed to make disgusting murderous gremlins the funniest and cutest part of it. Also being cynical kills your inner child and you come back looking like a meth addict.

Gonna be honest here, I almost forgot Dead Like Me. My mom loved that show

Last I saw, the movie was available on Netflix.

Yeah I saw it, just looking to own a copy of it. Shit's nearly as difficult to find as Yellowbeard.

 

[vallorn]

This sort of depressing view was originally meant more to be a subversion of the 'Alls well that ends well' views of many of television shows.

Instead of having that big, dramatic game-changing death or big reveal happen every season finale, they now have it happening every other episode. Now, for many people, it just feels boring because many shows think in order to keep people emotionally invested it has to be dark. Like Final Fantasy in recent years, its forgotten the 'wave' cycle of emotional attachment.

I'd like to point out I didn't read much of these posts, but Bryan Fuller (Director of Hannibal) has many of his creations portray death in a happy sense, almost in a 'it really doesn't matter' sense.

Pushing Daisies (Bryan Fuller) is, no doubt, one of the cutesiest shows I've ever watched and loved. To give you a hint of what your in for: its about a Piemaker who can bring people back from the dead, his undead girlfriend who he can't touch (because she died, he raised her and two touches kills them again and after that the power no longer works) and his cop/bounty hunting buddy.

Together they bring murder victims back from the dead (but only for a little while, as Ned has to touch them again to kill them, otherwise they'll continue to live...but someone else nearby would die.) ask them who killed them and solve the mysteries (since, you know, you can't get all the information from people who've just come back to life in less then 30 seconds).

Some of the sets are some of the greatest things to come on television in the pre-'everyone takes tv super serious now, let's throw multimillions into this' era sheerly through mere brightness and theme alone. Its adorable, its fluffy, its funny, it has lee pace in it. I just love it.

If you ever want a show that acknowledges bad things happen to people, but is totally upbeat and a little wacky about the whole thing, watch Pushing Daisies.

That whole idea about that reminds me of Torchwood and it's resurrection gauntlets that did pretty much the same thing.

Then again, Torchwood itself was pretty nihilistic in some ways, it really loved screwing around with its characters in quite brutal ways, it got worse with the two later mini series where the whole setting goes very dystopian and nihilistic.

On the other hand, it was also bright and joyous at other times and really did a lot to give characters full, fleshed out arcs. I think it's the contrast that makes the dark times seem darker.

O.T. There's quite a few more optimistic shows, Agents of Shield is quite campy, as are many shows like it, Daredevil and the other Netflix runs are very, very, dark in some ways but I wouldn't call them nihilistic really (I can't exactly comment on Jessica Jones as I haven't had a chance to watch it fully yet). Instead, they come across more as "Gritty" in the classic TV style.

 

[Drakmorg]

Because Shock Value draws a bigger crowd nowadays and requires less work and talent than Actual Character Development. Pretty much as simple as that.

 

[Dragonpit]

I'm talking Game Of Thrones, Akame Ga Kill, Walking Dead...

Is it me or are shows these days really fucking nihilistic? Like we have these shows were the essential conflict happens, and it's never going to get better for the protagonists. There is no hope for a happy ending. And look, it maybe good story telling to chase our protagonists up a tree and throw rocks at them but it's just so fucking bleak.

I feel like TV shows these days are just like "Here's cute little puppy dog, it's yours. Love it." and then "Okay, it's been 3 months. Sit right there, I'm going to beat your dog to death with this ball point hammer. Oh don't cry, heres another Puppy." and then theres another hammer.

You can argue even that it's realistic, but oh my God real life is so fucking horrible who wants this to be their escapist fantasy?

You should try checking out Mad Men some time...Reason being part of its premise involves a theory regarding the psychology of the populace at large that you may find interesting. And yes, it ties in to the original post.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Yeah...that's why I watch cartoons. So many shows seem to be about murder, death, crime, 'bad' good guys...the list goes on. And so, I watch cartoons. Gravity Falls, MLP, Steven Universe, and so on. Yeah, the cartoons can get a bit dark, but they never get as bad as real life shows.

 

[default]

Oh man, all the wrong use of 'nihilistic' in this thread is making me... care. Nihilism in not about the 'oh the world sucks, misery me, nothing matters, welcome to the void' mindset that all the memes claim it to be. That mindset is the initial immature reaction to nihilism that needs to be overcome.

I wouldn't call myself a nihilist, just to be clear. I do agree and relate with a lot of the ideas it conveys, but some of the nitty gritty details about the philosophy turn me off. Not that it matters.


But anyway, death has always been a cornerstone of human culture and storytelling, and for good reason. It's the lynchpin to our existence, it deserves exploration. This is hardly a new development. But that's obviously not to say it can't be done in stupid, boring or tasteless ways. The violence and death in something like, say, 'Hannibal' is far removed from the violence and death in some shitty shock-focused crime drama. It's a broad subject. It is perhaps a little too focused on for my personal liking (at least the way it is mostly portrayed culturally in the West), but there is so much other amazing stuff out there exploring things about life rather than just its end.