Whats wrong with basic human empathy?

[Vault101]

Because I somtimes get the impression some people here have a problem with it

now Im not generalizing because...yeah (well I am but Im not sayign the whole escapist is liek this)

anyway I understand people have all kinds of belifes and principles, and the line with morality gets blury the deeper you go

oh and theres nothing that makes me rage faster than the "humans are soo fucked up so therefore Its ok to be a sociopath" argument

humans arnt evil, hunaity isnt evil at worst MOST of us can be apathetic (seriously get over yourself)

My point here is that, in its most basic form If im in trouble, other people would help if the situation was right, I mean yeah this depends on a million things,

http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html

now this shows that yeah, there is a reaosn alot of people (all of us really) dont care

but I mean stuff like the idea of "human culling" and "why bother save somones life? we are over populated as it is" kinda freaks me out

like somone given the choice..WOULDNT save my life if they could..thats fucking scary

 

[Wierdguy]

Who would you save? 10.000 people youve never heard about in a far away country, 100 people youve sort of heard about in your home town or your best friend?

My guess is that you wont choose the 10.000 people. But why not? Thats so much more death and suffering than any other alternative! Its 9.900 more people dying, an unknown ammount of people more that gets hurt or suffer because of their deaths, how many more families and friends looses a loved one? But most likely you wont care, most likely you'll choose eiher your best friend or those 100 people near you. Why? Because those 10.000 are far away, the trouble is something you most likely wont have to deal with.

And thats when we arrive at the empathy part... it only works when its someone near us hence empathy on the internet is hard to come by.

 

[Zac Smith]

What doesn't affect me directly, doesn't bother me. The earthquake in Japan, was I fussed, no not at all. I have no friends from or living in Japan and and don't know of anyone who does, so in that sense I do not care. But do I feel empathy for the people who lost loved ones? Hell yeah, they have lost family members, people close to them they will never see again, if that was me, I'd be distraught.

 

[MrLumber]

Empathy is somewhat a contrived notion as is IMO. I personally don't believe that empathy (or a better word, compassion) is something that is necessary, or in particular positive. This has little to do with the whole 'human culling' stuff you mentioned, but more the thought that our culture as somewhat spawned 'compassion' as a basic human ideal. This especially goes for us here in America, mainly due to the whole Melting Pot / Every Man is Equal stuff that has happened in the past.

Call me cold-hearted, but I'm somewhat a staunch believer in natural selection (albeit not to the point of, if your going to die you die). The reasoning being that not everyone is really making a valuable contribution to society, and expanding for the sake of expansion causes unbounded exponential growth, hence people supporting this unbounded expansion are providing very little to a progressive society.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent, but I find that empathy is much more of a choice or inherited ideal, rather than something that people should consider a virtue or natural emotion.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

There is indeed something undeniable about physically being there to see someone else's hardship and suffering. Although as far as why some people don't help, I think it's important to point out or remember that sometimes, some people will not help not out of any kind of malice or uncaring feelings, but, especially in situations such as injuries and accidents, they have NO clue as to what to do, and depending on the event that led to the current circumstances, the shock can be paralyzing for some.

Distance I suppose does indeed play a factor, but in that case what do we say about all the funds raised after disasters such as the ones in Haiti and Japan? Japan in particular I know alot of Anime and Manga fans, prime denizens of the somewhat cold and uncaring internet, reached into their wallets and gave more than I'm sure some people expected.

True, it could be constructed that they're merely doing it out of some kind of desire to not see whatever they enjoy that comes from Japan go away, and I'm sure in some immature cases that's indeed the case. But I'd like to think people did it for a higher reason.

By and large, I think the lack of empathy you see is an inability on some people's parts to put themselves into someone's shoes, not to feel for them as I don't think that's required, but to see a situation through their eyes. If a person can't do that...well...that's kind of a part of having empathy, isn't it?

 

[Wuggy]

There's nothing wrong with empathy but the thing is that you can't force it. My capabilities empahty (or compassion) is somewhat limited, but that is not to say that I would think feeling compassion is wrong. And even though I didn't feel particularly bad about Japan, I still donated to help the cause. It was not out of compassion, but from the will to do good. I do think that from helping a cause without an emotional motivation and having an emotional response and not helping, the former is better.

 

[Kair]

There's nothing wrong with empathy but the thing is that you can't force it. My capabilities empahty (or compassion) is somewhat limited, but that is not to say that I would think feeling compassion is wrong. And even though I didn't feel particularly bad about Japan, I still donated to help the cause. It was not out of compassion, but from the will to do good. I do think that from helping a cause without an emotional motivation and having an emotional response and not helping, the former is better.

I learned how to force it.

 

[BabyRaptor]

Empathy for any given situation depends on a lot of things. How personal is the situation to you? Are you a person who tends to be compassionate in general or are you more of a dick? Will there be any sort of repercussions? ETC

 

[Vault101]

Empathy is somewhat a contrived notion as is IMO. I personally don't believe that empathy (or a better word, compassion) is something that is necessary, or in particular positive. This has little to do with the whole 'human culling' stuff you mentioned, but more the thought that our culture as somewhat spawned 'compassion' as a basic human ideal. This especially goes for us here in America, mainly due to the whole Melting Pot / Every Man is Equal stuff that has happened in the past.

Call me cold-hearted, but I'm somewhat a staunch believer in natural selection (albeit not to the point of, if your going to die you die). The reasoning being that not everyone is really making a valuable contribution to society, and expanding for the sake of expansion causes unbounded exponential growth, hence people supporting this unbounded expansion are providing very little to a progressive society.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent, but I find that empathy is much more of a choice or inherited ideal, rather than something that people should consider a virtue or natural emotion.

natural selection doesnt really apply to us now though does it?

then there eugenics....yeah no thanks

 

[JoJo]

It's because a small but loud minority on this site consider themselves "cool" and "edgy" if they act like they don't care about morality and similar. Interestingly the people who like to proprogate "humanity sux!!1!1!" type opinions either seem to consider themselves above the rest of us or use it as an excuse to be an asshole.

Pro-tip: If someone commits a terrible crime, that doesn't mean humanity is evil, that means he or she is evil!

 

[kortin]

Who would you save? 10.000 people youve never heard about in a far away country, 100 people youve sort of heard about in your home town or your best friend?

My guess is that you wont choose the 10.000 people. But why not? Thats so much more death and suffering than any other alternative! Its 9.900 more people dying, an unknown ammount of people more that gets hurt or suffer because of their deaths, how many more families and friends looses a loved one? But most likely you wont care, most likely you'll choose eiher your best friend or those 100 people near you. Why? Because those 10.000 are far away, the trouble is something you most likely wont have to deal with.

And thats when we arrive at the empathy part... it only works when its someone near us hence empathy on the internet is hard to come by.

Going off of this, not only is it easy to say you're going to choose your best friend or those 100 people that you sort of know. Anything above a couple of people's deaths, for a human, is impossible to comprehend. When you start getting up in the thousands, you get more and more desensitized, simply because the human brain cannot comprehend that many deaths.

Also "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." by Joseph Stalin works well here.

 

[Shio]

Also "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." by Joseph Stalin works well here.

Not so much.

I'm pretty sure the holocaust is a tragedy, not just a statistic.

 

[kortin]

Also "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." by Joseph Stalin works well here.

Not so much.

I'm pretty sure the holocaust is a tragedy, not just a statistic.

You are misunderstanding him. To the human mind, 1 death is an absolute tragedy. You can understand one person dying. You can see 1 person's face easily. You can imagine the horror that the person's family is going through. However, a million deaths is just far beyond the human psyche to comprehend. Obviously the holocaust was a tragedy, but when you think about a million people dying, you can't even begin to imagine that many faces, wiped from the earth forever, so your brain turns it into a statistic. Instead of thinking of 1 million faces, chances are you think of 1 face(most likely the cause of it), or maybe even the number "1,000,000".

 

[Oly J]

I should probably point out that my best friend, and the person I would go furthest out of my way to save, is someone I know exclusively on the internet, (and yes, I do have friends locally that I also care a great deal for) so it really does depend on the person

EDIT this was in response to some peoples position that you would choose whichever was closest to you,

 

[Shio]

Also "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." by Joseph Stalin works well here.

Not so much.

I'm pretty sure the holocaust is a tragedy, not just a statistic.

You are misunderstanding him. To the human mind, 1 death is an absolute tragedy. You can understand one person dying. You can see 1 person's face easily. You can imagine the horror that the person's family is going through. However, a million deaths is just far beyond the human psyche to comprehend. Obviously the holocaust was a tragedy, but when you think about a million people dying, you can't even begin to imagine that many faces, wiped from the earth forever, so your brain turns it into a statistic. Instead of thinking of 1 million faces, chances are you think of 1 face(most likely the cause of it), or maybe even the number "1,000,000".

No, no. I've seen what the holocaust was. I see a lot more than a number or a lone face.

 

[kortin]

Also "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." by Joseph Stalin works well here.

Not so much.

I'm pretty sure the holocaust is a tragedy, not just a statistic.

You are misunderstanding him. To the human mind, 1 death is an absolute tragedy. You can understand one person dying. You can see 1 person's face easily. You can imagine the horror that the person's family is going through. However, a million deaths is just far beyond the human psyche to comprehend. Obviously the holocaust was a tragedy, but when you think about a million people dying, you can't even begin to imagine that many faces, wiped from the earth forever, so your brain turns it into a statistic. Instead of thinking of 1 million faces, chances are you think of 1 face(most likely the cause of it), or maybe even the number "1,000,000".

No, no. I've seen what the holocaust was. I see a lot more than a number or a lone face.

Whatever you say. I still stand by that quote and the reasoning that accompanies it.

 

[Shio]

Also "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." by Joseph Stalin works well here.

Not so much.

I'm pretty sure the holocaust is a tragedy, not just a statistic.

You are misunderstanding him. To the human mind, 1 death is an absolute tragedy. You can understand one person dying. You can see 1 person's face easily. You can imagine the horror that the person's family is going through. However, a million deaths is just far beyond the human psyche to comprehend. Obviously the holocaust was a tragedy, but when you think about a million people dying, you can't even begin to imagine that many faces, wiped from the earth forever, so your brain turns it into a statistic. Instead of thinking of 1 million faces, chances are you think of 1 face(most likely the cause of it), or maybe even the number "1,000,000".

No, no. I've seen what the holocaust was. I see a lot more than a number or a lone face.

Whatever you say. I still stand by that quote and the reasoning that accompanies it.

You're welcome to.

I'll stick to seeing and acknowledging death as more than a lone face and a number in the news, though.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

Is empathy ever the better option? Deep down, we are all selfish bastards. It's just human nature, no need to deny it. We cooperate in groups, because that type of behavior kept our primitive ancestors alive and well fed. We maintained it, because it still gives better results than solitary living. But despite now living in an interconnected world, in which almost anybody can have access to information that would have had to be stored in stadium sized libraries mere decades ago, we still have poverty, hunger, and disease. Why haven't these problems been eradicated, considering knowledge of them is widespread? The answer is either "somebody else could do it better (or variants of the same)" or "It isn't my problem." Tell me, where does empathy come into this? Sure, you may argue that the sheer scale of the problem prevents us from grasping just how serious it is (a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic), but then you've necessarily concluded that human empathy is limited to a small group (monkeysphere ftw!).
A simple example, perhaps: say you attend a large college, some 50,000 students. It so happens that one of the students dies in an accident one night. Tragic? Indubitably, but the impact may be lessened once you know that alcohol was involved, and I doubt anybody would care after a week. Now say you happen to know this person, what then? Would you be sad? Certainly. Now say you were friends back in high school, and still hung out from time to time, would this make a difference. Yes, of course. And now for the big question: would such an event make you empathize with people whose lives were touched by suicide, and deadly accidents? In my case, the answer was no. Yes, this actually happened, and while Jeffrey's death did make me quite sad, it really didn't leave me with a grand new-found sense of empathy and solidarity for people with similar experiences. What happened was simply this: a single, promising life ended that day, just like it happens all the time across the globe. His death was no more and no less tragic than any other, and to pretend otherwise is a disservice to his death and to any other's. Do take this with a grain of salt though. My ability to feel emotions is stunted as is, and a nihilistic outlook on life isn't going to alleviate that...

tl;dr. Too rambly to be coherent, but empathy, much like morality, is a subjective thing. No two people will have the same view of a given situation, so asking for something like "basic human empathy" is quite stupid.

 

[kortin]

actually its one of the major symptoms of being "a psychopath" (tho now it's called "antisocial personality disorder") and as i said its clinically measurable in the likes of an EEG.

That only applies if the person in question behaves like that in every day life, and not on the internet. Which is what i believe OP is talking about.

 

[Thyunda]

Empathy only really occurs when there's something I could do about it...but if given the option, yeah, I would choose the people closer to me over the people I'd never met, or likely would never meet. Myself and my best friend would have shared many years of experiences, and essentially we're a part of each other. So, it's only natural to choose yourself over a distant country.