What's Wrong With Communism?

[Agema]

Age, very well written and thoughtful response. You have made me think more clearly about a couple of things, mostly, that left and right are very large, vague terms.

Thank you. It's good to have a constructive discussion.

I am sure you know, in the US, until Hitler attacked the USSR, American Communists backed him. I guess I am easily baited by 50 years of people reflexively referring to the Nazis as right wing, and even blaming Christianity for the holocaust (I think that started to end by the 1990s, with the rise of alternate media). Hitler had openly stated his end goal was to end Christian concepts of right and wrong, and the annihilation of the Jews was a step towards that end. He was NOT a Christian.

No, I didn't know the US Communists supported Hitler - that's very interesting. I agree with what you say about Christianity not causing the Holocaust, and that Hitler was clearly not Christian.

I'll have to look up this "Syngman Rhee" guy, but, those you reference on the "right", I doubt, caused anywhere in the same universe the amount of death, tyranny and destruction monsters of the totalitarian left have caused.

Syngman Rhee was the post-WW2 leader of South Korea. Hardly the worst offender when compared to the likes of Franco, but not beyond more than a spot of heavy-handed oppression and the odd massacre.

Yes, it's probably true that the mass slaughter managed by the totalitarian left far outstrips that of the totalitarian right. However, that may partly a factor of the fact that the totalitarian left managed to take control of two of the three highest-populated nations on Earth at the time (China, USSR), with the latter also dominating Eastern Europe. More population under their thumbs, more people to massacre. I suspect they were worse as well because they were, substantially, popular movements. In contrast, your average right wing dictator is rarely liked and often forced out of power relatively quickly.

 

[Hybrid Sight]

Communism doesnt work. It only works in a idealist society and cant really function because of human nature(greed).

 

[Superhyperactiveman]

See, here's the thing. Communism is great as an idea, but we see in history that any society that actually adopts it goes to Hell and a Hand-basket. And sure, communists like to say "Oh, this is what went wrong. Without this, Communism would've worked," but this is political/economic science here, and science is all about recognizing patterns. The pattern recognized here is that communism screws everything up, and anyone who thinks communism would do any better in their country than anywhere else is being WAY too optimistic.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

See, here's the thing. Communism is great as an idea, but we see in history that any society that actually adopts it goes to Hell and a Hand-basket. And sure, communists like to say "Oh, this is what went wrong. Without this, Communism would've worked," but this is political/economic science here, and science is all about recognizing patterns. The pattern recognized here is that communism screws everything up, and anyone who thinks communism would do any better in their country than anywhere else is being WAY too optimistic.

The thing is, that what communism does wrong, is that it can't handle the economics properly. What happens when everyone gets the same salary, is that everyone gets poor rather than decent paid, due to bad spending on products. Just like with Stalin's 5 year plan, economics don't work that way. (No, I'm not saying that communism only is like Stalin's dictatorship, but his handling of the economics is one example of how it could go with strict organized economics).

I'm no expert at this, and I don't know the real good political system, cause honestly, every system has it's extreme flaws, and what makes us argue over which system that is best, is the opinion on what is worthy sacrificing. Every system comes with it's own sacrifice, it's all about what the individual is willing to sacrifice for the good of him and/or the people.

 

[gorfias]

I regret to write, I don't know much about Franco, outside SNL happily announcing that he was still dead on evening update!

Interesting point about monsters of the left taking over very large populations... a study of a percent of population killed/exploited by their ruler's would be interesting. Pol Pot seems to be about as bad as it gets, killing 1/3 of his nation.

The Shah, arguably a right winger, was particularly brutal, but, I don't know what kind of percentage he attacked. Worth looking into.

 

[captainordo]

THe main problem is that if people don't have a reason to work, they won't work as hard. People need motivation, eithor you put a gun to back or give them a chance to rise up and prosper

 

[oppp7]

You're thinking of Socialism. Communism is where the government does what it wants.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." -Some author against Totalitarianism

 

[Reklore]

People who say communism doesn't work are wrong. There has been true communism successfully
Eg Cambodia

People who say it a good idea are also wrong, and I'll tell you why:

The very nature of communism remove's all pride, freedom and self wroth from the Individual and gives it to community.
Communism also needs a totalitarianism government to keep it strong.

However, only having or ?adding? free healthcare to the USA will not make it communist, just more Socialist.

 

[GoldenCondor]

You're thinking of Socialism. Communism is where the government does what it wants.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." -Some author against Totalitarianism

America having influences of Socialism along with the now running capitalism would make the USA a very good country to live in. You were right, i wrote this all too hastily, but whatever, sprung a good debate.

I don't want to support my opinion, there's much evidence of socialism that people got happy about already.

I would say the health care reform, but i would just get yelled at, so ignore this last line.

 

[MaskedMori]

Well, it's been stated about 450 times before, Communism doesn't work because people want. Communism is about supporting needs, not wants. Also, it puts the govt. in charge of everything, and everybody knows where that road leads.

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

In theory it is good. But it will never work. That's what's wrong with it.

 

[sethwood]

Well communism doesn't work because no one strives for anything because it is given to them by their government. In a capitalistic society, people are motivated to work because they can earn the all elusive dollar, or some other currency if you live somewhere else.

Haha, poopy

 

[stone0042]

Way I see it, yes it is an intriguing concept, but it can never be achieved as it is intended. when every attempt at implementing a system fails horribly, it cannot be seen as a successful or worthwhile system.

 

[SonicKoala]

So, this thread is sort of old, but having done a project on Communism in my senior year of high school, I feel a desire to share my knowledge!

Communism is not a system of government - it's a means of structuring society in which there exist no social hierarchies whatsoever; in other words, everybody is equal. The ultimate goal of Karl Marx's theory is to establish a society in which the members of this society work together and share the fruits of their labour equally. There are to be no Kings, Presidents, Czars, Capitalists, Factory Owners, etc. There is no government in a Communist society. In a true Communist utopia, there'd be no need for such things.

So I guess my point here is that there is this BROAD misconception of what Communism is - when people think of Communism, they think of the USSR. That was NOT a Communist society - that was a totalitarian/socialist state; every single "communist" state that ever existed was actually in the "transitional" phase on the road to becoming Communist. To grossly oversimplify Marxism, 2 things needed to happen in order for Communism to be established:

1)Overthrow the bourgeois regime that is oppressing everybody (killing them is okay, they are bad men, after all!)
2)After the revolution is over, a group of dedicated revolutionaries would select a single individual to oversee the transition of society from a capitalist economic structure to Communism, known as the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat"

As for what a Communist society would actually LOOK like and how it would actually FUNCTION, well Marx couldn't be bothered with trivial bullshit like that. He just loved to write about how oppressed everyone was and how it would just be so fucking rad if all the capitalists died one day. What's wrong with it? What, apart from actually establishing the damn thing? If you look at the TWO major "communist" societies of the 20th century, Russia and China, there attempts to transition to Communism lead to deaths of over 60 million people; strangely enough, A LOT of those, and by a lot i mean, literally ALL, of them were workers - the very people the system of Communism is suppose to be for.

And finally, the main problem with Communism is that such a concept only exists in people's minds. It's a fantasy. How could such a society function? Hell, not even the guy who CAME UP WITH THE IDEA IN THE FIRST PLACE knew! That should tell you a lot about the merits of Communism.

 

[Thaius]

Well, communism isn't a bad idea in and of itself, really. The problem with it is the same problem with any government system: human nature.

In a communistic society, the dictator eventually gets power-hungry and screws his country over. In a society like America, the people get power-hungry and, through a strange set of events, pretty much turn over control to the government so they no longer have to work for their freedom.

Either way, it pretty much dissolves into socialism eventually. Which is where we're headed right now. Seriously, this whole healthcare thing is reminding me of The Giver. Won't be long before we're just "releasing" those who are too old...

 

[SonicKoala]

Well, communism isn't a bad idea in and of itself, really. The problem with it is the same problem with any government system: human nature.

In a communistic society, the dictator eventually gets power-hungry and screws his country over. In a society like America, the people get power-hungry and, through a strange set of events, pretty much turn over control to the government so they no longer have to work for their freedom.

Either way, it pretty much dissolves into socialism eventually. Which is where we're headed right now. Seriously, this whole healthcare thing is reminding me of The Giver. Won't be long before we're just "releasing" those who are too old...

What you're talking about isn't Communism, what you are referring to are the Totalitarian socialist states of the USSR and China. A proper Communist society has no government. And what do you mean COMMUNISM dissolves into SOCIALISM? That makes no sense whatsoever if you are actually going by the proper definitions of Communism and Socialism.