When a friend tells you he "does not agree" with the concept of evolution
- Thread starter IsraelRocks
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Its weird that the self correcting system of SCIENCE gets berated for sharpening its ideas when the same people laud the storys written 1000's of years before people knew a damn thing about the world.Plazmatic said:
That's a good point, it is a bit of a strange insult isn't it? I mean I get how it works, the inference that scientists are blindly following it with no adherence to evidence, which is of course anathema to the scientific process.bombadilillo said:I love, "love" the its a religion too argument. It secretly acknowledges the idiocy of the stance by projecting its own shortcomings on the other side.Hugga_Bear said:That wasn't directed at you, just a coincidence.
If I recall correctly it's just over 50% are creationists in the States? So yeah, it just surprises the hell out of me. I can understand not knowing (one of my friend's is an atheist and has made it clear she neither knows nor cares. That's fine) but that's a huge amount of people.
Evolution isn't a religion, it's a scientific theory. Difficult mistake to make but it happens
But to use it as an insult is kinda double edged because ultimately you're insulting yourself as well.
Curious.
My high school Math teacher, a guy who opened my mind to the wonders of physics and why the universe is awesome... believes whole heartedly in the bible =|
He's a very smart man, much smarter than I, but I never ask him about his beliefs because I respect him too much.
It just blows my mind that he believes in such rubbish.
Whenever someone who doesn't believe in evolution tells me to "prove it!" I:
- Give them a summarized explanation of all the facts that I have gained over the years, with the support that I remember
- Tell them that most of the smartest people on the planet, believe in evolution
- Turn their "prove it!" against them by saying they can't prove god, while science has done its best to prove evolution
- Show them examples of evolution at work in the world around them
And if that doesn't work, I just throw up my hands and walk away, or change the subject.
He's a very smart man, much smarter than I, but I never ask him about his beliefs because I respect him too much.
It just blows my mind that he believes in such rubbish.
Whenever someone who doesn't believe in evolution tells me to "prove it!" I:
- Give them a summarized explanation of all the facts that I have gained over the years, with the support that I remember
- Tell them that most of the smartest people on the planet, believe in evolution
- Turn their "prove it!" against them by saying they can't prove god, while science has done its best to prove evolution
- Show them examples of evolution at work in the world around them
And if that doesn't work, I just throw up my hands and walk away, or change the subject.
You will if you go around saying things like 'we didn't come from monkeys'. No one but people who don't understand ToE claim that. We all diverged from a common ancestor.NellNell said:
DNA is a fantastic tool that's really useful in analyzing and figuring out how different species are related, it's not the be all and end all but it is really useful. For example did you know that the hemoglobin in your blood has remarkable amount of common code with the chlorophyll in plant cells? How do you explain this relationship without invoking a common ancestor?
Also I'm curious to know what you mean by animals adapting.
This thread has made me sad. I will probably never view this forum in the same way again.
OT: IMO you should ignore the subject again. When someone has decided that they are right, they will not change their minds, even if you prove them wrong. Something like this is not worth losing a friend over, even if it would make at least me think less of him / her.
OT: IMO you should ignore the subject again. When someone has decided that they are right, they will not change their minds, even if you prove them wrong. Something like this is not worth losing a friend over, even if it would make at least me think less of him / her.
It's regularly used by creationists as an insult to scientists, mostly because it's a diversionary tactic (and an effective one against less able debaters, such as Dawkins who although tremendously well educated on the subject (and surprisingly not that antagonistic, despite propaganda to the opposite) isn't a top notch debater).AlexNora said:
So, apologies if it doesn't fit with you, generally people who say it's a religion are advocates of their own religion, it's something which has genuinely never occurred to me before.
Regardless, I am going to bed now (alas, I have to be up bright and early in the morning, such is life) so apologies but I won't respond to anything for a few hours.
I'm not going to flame, but I would like to point out that I was the same way until I stopped reading creationist propaganda. See, you're correct on one really important point. We didn't come from monkeys in the way we think of today. That's one of the most basic misunderstandings of evolution, and it's one that I made until just this year. Evolution states that we, at one point, had a common ancestor with the chimpanzees that looked more like a chimp than it did a human. Beyond that ancestor, we had an ancestor with the apes that looked much more like an ape than it did a human, but it still wasn't an "ape." Once I realized that ID/creationism pushed this part of evolution incorrectly, I began to wonder what other things the materials behind ID/creationism have gotten wrong about evolution. Then I read "The Greatest Show on Earth," and that presented every piece of evidence I would ever need (and then some) to accept that I was wrong in thinking that evolution was A) faith-based, B) impossible, and C) non-evidential.NellNell said:
To answer the original post, your friend has likely never been exposed to the mountain of evidence in favor of evolution. This is probably because of his original religious belief system, which could mean that even the huge amount of evidence won't budge him on this point. There's no reason to not stay friends with him, obviously, as it seems you've been friends for a while. However, if you feel this could become a problem in your friendship (as it can become) then you should probably explain a little bit of your reasoning and try to get him interested in the evidence for evolution. Most ID believers/creationists have only ever heard of how the fossil evidence is lacking (it's not, but that's what they are told by their leaders), so perhaps you could bring another side of evidence, such as the distribution of animals or the masterful experiments done on islands and on E. Coli. I had never seen these arguments prior to reading "The Greatest Show on Earth," so perhaps he has not either!
Only slightly off-topic, but if you want a quick way to understand why those of us who "believe in evolution" (read as "accept the Theory of Evolution based on the evidence"), you might try reading the book I've written about: "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. In the foreword, he talks about how his other books started on the assumption that those reading them accepted the Theory of Evolution, and that this book was written to compile as much of the evidence (both old and new) as possible which proved (to the extent that science can prove anything) that the Theory of Evolution is correct. It does an excellent job of compiling the evidence, imo, if you're interested in seeing why we are so strong on this point.
Salad Is Murder said:
Tree man said:
Sudenak said:
Okay, I think that's everyone. The general idea seems to be that you don't agree with me, so now I guess I'll have to defend my previous statement.Ketsuban said:
If a terrorist murders you because of his beliefs, he is forcing his beliefs on you, therefore he is a dick.
There is a difference between believing and hurting.
Tell me, has this fact that is evolution made your life better? Has the fact that somebody might not believe in evolution caused you any harm? No, and as long as he leaves you alone, why should you do anything different?
I believe there was something along the lines of "thou shalt not kill" too, but that only applies to some religions. Or most religions.
I'm not going to get into a discussion on whether creation or evolution is right, because let's face it, no matter how many arguments I'll present, you're all just going to dismiss me as a gullible fool, so I'm not gonna bother.
Instead, I'll just leave you with a word of wisdom.
Said the magical talking unicorn.
I still love you guys.
I have been to a hospital. So yes. Evolution has practical uses.SonofaJohannes said:
Yes, in that he opposes the fundamental pillars of biology and medicine.
I like being healthy.
Bring science, and you'll be listened to by those that believe in science. Those that don't do not have weight in the discussion, which is an important one.
Friendship is magic!
Does knowing about gravity make your life better? Or atoms? The purpose of science is to learn why things work. Screaming at the top of your lungs to drown out learning just so that a bronze age ideology can live is absurd. And detrimental to our lives.SonofaJohannes said:
Take the US, where plenty of states keep trying to push that we need to stop teaching evolution, and if we don't we should teach creationism next to it in a science class. So yeah, that causes harm to me. Because that means that, in the future, the next generation of Americans could grow up thinking a scientific theory is "just a theory" and also learn that religious dogma is A-OK in school. Since our country is already swinging a bit too far in that direction, I would really rather see it not keep going that way.
So far, the only reason why I find this discuss to be harmful is that it's very one sided. Evolution has data backing it. Data which is constantly being added to, but data nonetheless. Creationism never changes, and cannot be proven (nor disproven). That's not scientific. Until Creationism can provide some hard evidence that isn't from a holy text, it just can't stand up. Creationism. I just wanted to say that again because it lined up three times in the reply box >_>;
Doesn't matter, it's his belief. Forget about it if it is an issue for you and move on.
I have a friend who doesn't believe in evolution and when I found out all I did was go "Huh" and move on. My friend got all kinds of shit about it in class when it came up and your friend probably get some from other people and doesn't need it from his friends as well.
I have a friend who doesn't believe in evolution and when I found out all I did was go "Huh" and move on. My friend got all kinds of shit about it in class when it came up and your friend probably get some from other people and doesn't need it from his friends as well.
In all honesty, who cares? I think this post says a lot more about you than him; you freaked out because your friend said something you think is unreasonable. I'm 99.9% sure that his religious beliefs will not weigh on his programming skill.IsraelRocks said:
Sigh... more people. I just wanted people to stop forcing their "facts" on other people.DracoSuave said:
But fine, more counter arguments.
Could you please give me some examples on how us evolving from monkeys contributed to medical studies?
And how does one guy not believing in it stop others from doing it? Just because he doesn't believe in it doesn't stop all those other guys from doing their sciency stuff, nor does it prevent you from going to the hospital.
I agree with Xisin here, it sounds to me like he knew he would be mocked for his beliefs and tried to dodge the question as best he couldXisin said: