When a friend tells you he "does not agree" with the concept of evolution

[enzilewulf]

Maybe he comes from a very religious background. I believe in evolution but thats just it I believe. Thats it.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I'd be all like "Whatever, man." People are entitled to their opinions, and if we don't let the religious people have that, how can we justify our views?

 

[squeekenator]

So when this guy, who is probably the smartest guy I ever met told me he didn't believe that humans are apart of evolution it blew me away. To make things worse he said "there are some things that humans are meant to understand. and we are both Comp-Sci majors so rational thought is a given.

assuming that you actually meant "aren't meant to understand" then I completely agree

Well that's a rather distressingly close-minded way of looking at it. It might have been appropriate back in, say, the Dark Ages, when most of what little we thought we knew was wrong, but science has been advancing by leaps and bounds in recent times. We're learning more about the world around us every day, things that were once written off as the work of God, or beyond human understanding. Thanks to science, we can truly appreciate the beauty and wonder of how the world works, rather than saying "dunno, guess it's cos of God". Why on earth would anyone choose to ignore all of this, refuse to believe things that we do understand, whether we're 'meant to' or not, and instead settle for worshipping their own ignorance?

EDIT: Wait, shouldn't this thread be in the religion section?

 

[Sharpiez]

Of course evolution happens gradually, what are you talking about?

Oh, you discovered all the holes in the fossil record?

Sweet.

 

[Turing '88]

Of course evolution happens gradually, what are you talking about?
It's an iterative process based on certain genes being expressed more or less frequently in a population over time, due to the influence of external factors, be they natural or artificial.

And yes, we can prove it. We have proved it. We have an entire field of science based on it. It's called Biology and we see it in practice CONSTANTLY. Humans have tail bones. Where our ancestors used to have tails. That isn't "unproven" - any x-ray can show it. Why would we have tail bones if not for evolution? why would we have finger nails or toes or anything - none of it makes sense if not for the constant influence of the environment on the survival rates of our ancestors.

Frankly the only excuse for not acknowledging the validity of the scientific consensus is either ignorance or an unmerited disdain for the way the universe actually works.

This.

Also it makes me sad to see so many people don't have a basic grasp of how science works, the "it's only a theory" response is literally on par with the "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys" argument.

If you don't belive in evolution that's fine, you need a good reason though. This means either offering proof evolution is false, or offering a better explanation that fits the evidence. You can't just say "yea but science has been wrong before, so I'm going to ignore parts of science that don't fit with my world view".

Evolution isn't even unintuitive! It makes sense! If people disbelived in things like wave-particle duality I'd at least understand why, but evolution is brilliant in that it's so simple and logical.

 

[enzilewulf]

"Certified genius" that chooses to ignore empirical data with a hand waved "we are not supposed to understand"?

Okay, there's x number of rational explanations:

A) Your friend is messing with you.
B) Your friend is misinformed/ignorant.
C) Your friend is an idiot.

My science gut is really pulling for C here, but the other two shouldn't be ruled out without further data into the system.

I don't get it. Why is he a idiot because he doesn't believe in what you do? Maybe he simply wants to stay off the subject and he likes the moral teaching of his religion. I believe in evolution yet if you ask me I will say I follow teaching of god because of moral use. Religion (if taken the right way) can make you into a great person. Even if you don't choose to believe in it religion has some things that maybe a person should still live by regardless. I know I simply don't like the subject just like Politics. Why? because it usually leads to me ending up looking like the dick head because I called some one a idiot because he doesn't believe in what I do. Which I will never do. Even though there is proof I still would respect his views. Yet I am sure I will just get a "your a idiot too" in return but o well I tried.

 

[Matt King]

Okay, so he doesn't believe in evolution. What's the big deal?
Just because people have opinions different from yours doesn't make them wrong.
If that's what thinks, then that's what he thinks. So let him think it. Trying to force your beliefs onto others just makes you seem like a dick.

Okay, here is where I have the problem. We are not debating truth in an esoteric, touchy-feely, invisible man in the sky kind of way here; we are debating fact. What if someone told you that they didn't believe in gravity? Would you be okay with that, live and let live right? What if someone believed that it wasn't illegal or immoral to have sex with children, that's okay right? I wouldn't want to force my beliefs on anyone, no harm done, two ships passing in the night. What if someone believed that your stuff is not your stuff, it could be anyone's stuff and they're taking your stuff because they believe your stuff is now their stuff. It's cool, ya'll, SonofaJ is alright with that.

Now, what if these people were teaching your kids? Running your state government? Responsible for law enforcement? Are you still alright with that?

sorry but what the fuck, are you serious he isn't a child molester he just believes somthing different, evolution isn't necasseraly fact this is nothing like saying gravity doesn't exsist he just believes what he believes don't compare him to child molesters i'm sorry but that is a bit close minded of you (I do believe in evolution and i am religious) (and i can't spell)

 

[Matt King]

Okay, so he doesn't believe in evolution. What's the big deal?
Just because people have opinions different from yours doesn't make them wrong.
If that's what thinks, then that's what he thinks. So let him think it. Trying to force your beliefs onto others just makes you seem like a dick.

Okay, here is where I have the problem. We are not debating truth in an esoteric, touchy-feely, invisible man in the sky kind of way here; we are debating fact. What if someone told you that they didn't believe in gravity? Would you be okay with that, live and let live right? What if someone believed that it wasn't illegal or immoral to have sex with children, that's okay right? I wouldn't want to force my beliefs on anyone, no harm done, two ships passing in the night. What if someone believed that your stuff is not your stuff, it could be anyone's stuff and they're taking your stuff because they believe your stuff is now their stuff. It's cool, ya'll, SonofaJ is alright with that.

Now, what if these people were teaching your kids? Running your state government? Responsible for law enforcement? Are you still alright with that?

sorry but what the fuck, are you serious he isn't a child molester he just believes somthing different, evolution isn't necasseraly fact this is nothing like saying gravity doesn't exsist he just believes what he believes don't compare him to child molesters i'm sorry but that is a bit close minded of you (I do believe in evolution and i am religious) (and i can't spell)

 

[Zyntoxic]

I had a similar experience, but he was very religious and very open about it, and he studied math and computer science, and still took the bible very literally, even though the things he studied and got an A on every time said differently he said that what he has been thought during these courses only strengthened his belief that the world was only a couple of thousand years old, god created man and did not evolve from monkies and so on and so forth.

he would have his whole class debating against him and he would never give up and still leave the argument with a smile on his face and just as strong a belief in god as before.

seriously he is one of the few people that ever even had me considering being religious as an option, even though he never tried to convince anyone to do so, he was one of the happiest and most willfull people I've ever met.
sure it was kinda strange though that he could go a whole day smiling just because he knew jesus loves him...

I don't believe in a god and I consider the evoulution theory one of the strongest theories we have, but I do agree, nothing is set in stone, there are many, many things we do not understand yet and many, many more things we are yet to discover before we can understand ourselves and world around us.

 

[Sharpiez]

This.

Also it makes me sad to see so many people don't have a basic grasp of how science works, the "it's only a theory" response is literally on par with the "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys" argument.

If you don't belive in evolution that's fine, you need a good reason though. This means either offering proof evolution is false, or offering a better explanation that fits the evidence. You can't just say "yea but science has been wrong before, so I'm going to ignore parts of science that don't fit with my world view".

Evolution isn't even unintuitive! It makes sense! If people disbelived in things like wave-particle duality I'd at least understand why, but evolution is brilliant in that it's so simple and logical.

How is believing in a scientific theory any different from believing in a religion? Science isn't the end all and be-all of reality.

Same shit. If we assume God is a constant in our universe then I have made a theory of a deity that can not be falsified, and is thus a valid theory.

Whoa.

 

[MoeTheMonk]

I can perfectly understand his point of view. Maybe it's just me, but the evolutionary process for me has always seemed a bit far-fetched. Maybe if it was 100% verified and I could see it, but regardless of the fact that evolution is taught as a completely undeniable fact of life, there still remains quite a lot of holes and missing links in the whole thing.
I know most people on this site would disagree with that assessment, but that's been what I've observed. It's the most convenient way to explain life on earth without involving a creator, and as a result I think its been taken as THE ONLY TRUE ANSWER far too quickly.

"I, myself, am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially to the extent to which it's been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books of the future. Posterity will marvel that so flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the credulity that it has."

-Malcom Muggeridge

 

[enzilewulf]

I can perfectly understand his point of view. Maybe it's just me, but the evolutionary process for me has always seemed a bit far-fetched. Maybe if it was 100% verified and I could see it, but regardless of the fact that evolution is taught as a completely undeniable fact of life, there still remains quite a lot of holes and missing links in the whole thing.
I know most people on this site would disagree with that assessment, but that's been what I've observed. It's the most convenient way to explain life on earth without involving a creator, and as a result I think its been taken as THE ONLY TRUE ANSWER far too quickly.

"I, myself, am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially to the extent to which it's been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books of the future. Posterity will marvel that so flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the credulity that it has."

-Malcom Muggeridge

Finally not alone on this damn sight! I mean I believe in it sure but its not like its the answer to all answers.

 

[Evaheist666]

"Certified genius" that chooses to ignore empirical data with a hand waved "we are not supposed to understand"?

Okay, there's x number of rational explanations:

A) Your friend is messing with you.
B) Your friend is misinformed/ignorant.
C) Your friend is an idiot.

My science gut is really pulling for C here, but the other two shouldn't be ruled out without further data into the system.

My thoughts exactly. Also, devotion to any religion (even for a few years)does great damage the conscious and subconscious mind so maybe he's subconsciously confused?

 

[spiritslayr]

Me and one of my collage friends were having a discussion that came to be about evolution at some point. what you need to understand before replying is that this guy is probably one of the smartest people out there, the guy is a certified genius.
He practices Judaism up to a certain degree (separates meat a dairy and other stuff) but calling him religious will be a vast exaggeration.

So when this guy, who is probably the smartest guy I ever met told me he didn't believe that humans are apart of evolution it blew me away. To make things worse he said "there are some things that humans are meant to understand. and we are both Comp-Sci majors so rational thought is a given.

So..... WTF?!?!

Could he potentially mean that humans are no longer evolving? I mean, we are really but to be honest we aren't being subjected to particularly strong selective pressures.

 

[Thaius]

Sigh...

I'll be honest, I'm sick and tired of people acting like evolution is an absolutely proven fact and thinking otherwise is patently idiotic. There are many, many brilliant minds, scientists even, that see many problems or even disagree outright with the theory as it stands. Just because you were taught it in school doesn't mean it's definitely true, and you shouldn't be all shocked and outraged because someone you know thinks otherwise.

 

[Typhoonis88]

Seeing how the person who started this has a picture of a dancing sarah palin, mr israelrocks and has not added to the conversion i believe this is a big troll post if you ask me...

But i will bite.

As much as people would like to believe you can not scale your intelligence based a standard scale only what knowledge that person has obtained per say.

Religious views should not be taken in to scientific discussion and vise versa.

Evolution to me seems some what obvious from my view on the world, I just see that in this world no real way around it. Human kind even in the last 2000 years have not stayed the exact same way let alone the past 2.3million years. We have grown taller and pretty much have made one of our organs useless(apendix). Not to mention everytime someone is born there genetics are never identical to either of the parents.

If your friend being based in Comp-Sci major.I doubt he would be dealing with much readings of human biology to grant him this visage of being a ultimate source of your information.

I'd be questioning why his opinion on this topic is so humbling to yourself and why his views have created such an impact?

 

[kibbitz2000]

Nothing to WTF about, he probably has some complicated logic and/or personal event(s) that led him to his chosen conclusion. If it bothers you, ask him if he's willing.

 

[Shymer]

Do you think he may have been arguing that industrialisation, modern medicine and the human capacity to change their environment to suit themselves, rather than being pushed around by nature like normal animals, may have an impact on the process of natural selection?

 

[Mathak]

This.

Also it makes me sad to see so many people don't have a basic grasp of how science works, the "it's only a theory" response is literally on par with the "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys" argument.

If you don't belive in evolution that's fine, you need a good reason though. This means either offering proof evolution is false, or offering a better explanation that fits the evidence. You can't just say "yea but science has been wrong before, so I'm going to ignore parts of science that don't fit with my world view".

Evolution isn't even unintuitive! It makes sense! If people disbelived in things like wave-particle duality I'd at least understand why, but evolution is brilliant in that it's so simple and logical.

How is believing in a scientific theory any different from believing in a religion? Science isn't the end all and be-all of reality.

Same shit. If we assume God is a constant in our universe then I have made a theory of a deity that can not be falsified, and is thus a valid theory.

Whoa.

Say wah? Theories that cannot be falsified are by definition not valid theories.

 

[Aprilgold]

Ok, I don't know about your friend, sciencetists have to put aside their own beliefs when looking AT science. To everyone saying this, no, we haven't evolved because it takes millions of years, and we only evolve when its needed to survive.

I can perfectly understand his point of view. Maybe it's just me, but the evolutionary process for me has always seemed a bit far-fetched. Maybe if it was 100% verified and I could see it, but regardless of the fact that evolution is taught as a completely undeniable fact of life, there still remains quite a lot of holes and missing links in the whole thing.
I know most people on this site would disagree with that assessment, but that's been what I've observed. It's the most convenient way to explain life on earth without involving a creator, and as a result I think its been taken as THE ONLY TRUE ANSWER far too quickly.

"I, myself, am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially to the extent to which it's been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books of the future. Posterity will marvel that so flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the credulity that it has."

-Malcom Muggeridge

I see what you mean, but its perspective on it that changes how people see it. I feel its the most reasonable way to say how we exist, and explains it quite well. The only way people should see evolution in many cases is, after hundreds of years of an animal being beaten up by others, its race will grow a shell, if cave man learn how to hunt with sharp stick, may his brain grow, if monkey can't get to other tree to escape predator, may he be given a tail. I simplified it here, but it makes the most sense to my self, and I doubt the future will find a better way of describing it, at least without even more holes.