When a friend tells you he "does not agree" with the concept of evolution

[Chairman Miaow]

same thing happened to me. I called him an idiot, showed him evidence, he simply dismissed it. another person however when shown evidence did accept evolution.

 

[quantumsoul]

......Translocations and inversions in DNA will produce a fertile living offspring however chromosome based mishaps will not produce sterile young. (down syndrome)
So unless there was some amazing moment where chromosomes could combine and or split we did not come from the chimpanzee. Even if there were such a moment the likelihoods of it happening twice in the same offspring is tiny the chance of it happening to another that was available for reproduction even more minuscule.
It is by that logic that I refute Darwin's claim that we are descendant of the chimpanzee.
I do not claim to be a biologist. This is simply what was drawn to my attention. Like I said in the original post I am willing to accept any counter evidence. (condescension NOT needed cadet)
Anyway that's what I got.

People are born with more or less the amount of necessary chromosomes. Usually off by one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome#Aberrations So chromosome numbers and structure can change and not just cause downs syndrome. These people aren't always sterile. The belief that always having an even number to reproduce is false. Even hybrid animals with odd chromosome numbers like mules and ligers can on very rare occasion reproduce.

It really isn't a stretch of the imagination to believe we share a distant relative with chimps.

 

[Forbearance]

Wow, this is a bad idea, but here goes.

Now, I don't consider myself a religious person, nor do I consider myself an atheist. I think "If the world was created against such astronomical odds, why can't there be the same astronomical chance that a superior being may indeed exist."

Now I don't mean God, for all we know it could be some little green alien scientist testing an AI program (Think Darwinia). The fact is, we don't know. I'd like to believe in a Deity-like being that gives purpose to existence sure, but God/s in their current form don't seem to.

If I was to go into my radical theology theory... What's to say that God does exist and he used evolution as a tool? I don't see why there is no acknowledgement of the middle ground between Militant Atheism and Hardcore Zealotry. Both sides fight to the hilt that I AM RIET AND U R RONG! and just end up making themselves look like jackasses.

THE FACT IS!!!

There IS middle ground that Evolutionists and Theologians can agree on, but both of them are too pigheaded and narrow minded to open up to the "Maybe" and the "What if" and people with my "Middle ground" belief (all 10 of us ><) get caught in the middle of your crap.

 

[Conza]

Me and one of my collage friends were having a discussion that came to be about evolution at some point. what you need to understand before replying is that this guy is probably one of the smartest people out there, the guy is a certified genius.
He practices Judaism up to a certain degree (separates meat a dairy and other stuff) but calling him religious will be a vast exaggeration.

So when this guy, who is probably the smartest guy I ever met told me he didn't believe that humans are apart of evolution it blew me away. To make things worse he said "there are some things that humans are meant to understand. and we are both Comp-Sci majors so rational thought is a given.

So..... WTF?!?!

Well, I already quoted you, and got first post too, which was cool, but anyway.

Sign him up to this site, get him to provide more information himself. I mean, as you say, he's a less than completely orthadox jew, but just because he studies doesn't mean A. Most religious people (while all fooled by the doctrine), are not necessarily stupid, which would seem to be the premise of your post, most are stupid, and he is an exception by not being so. B. He's especially intelligent, just because he's completed, or is completing extra formal education, it just means the system suits him, and he's dedicated to it.

Look, I mean, people smart or stupid are entitled to believe anything they want, and while the more intelligent people should be less 'likely' to believe this non-sense, doesn't mean they are less entitled to believe so.

 

[cheywoodward]

Evolution isn't a theory in the general sense, in science a theory is all the knowledge we have on a subject. Your friend isn't just believing something irrational, he's refusing to believe that something we have proven to exist is real. It's on the same level of crazy as denying the holocaust in my opinion.

 

[Tsaba]

Oh dear how dare someone say that the earth is round or that we can create machines that can fly or that heathen Martin Luther nailing his thesis on a Roman Catholic church door culminating in the Protestant Reformation and OH MY F***ing GOD, LORD FORBID, SOMEONE CHALLENGES EVOLUTION.

Histories a ***** when it comes to repeating it and we just can't seem to "evolve" past it.

 

[Sudenak]

Okay, so he doesn't believe in evolution. What's the big deal?
Just because people have opinions different from yours doesn't make them wrong.
If that's what thinks, then that's what he thinks. So let him think it. Trying to force your beliefs onto others just makes you seem like a dick.

It'd be like having a friend just casually say "homosexuality is a sin and it's unnatural". Or "I don't believe that the Earth is a sphere; it's clearly flat". Or "The Earth is obviously only 5,000 years old".

It's saying something that is patently and provably false, and more than a little ignorant. Beliefs are fine (a la religion), but if someone fervently believes that 2+2=17, then just ignoring it because they "believe" is going to cause more harm than good.

Especially if they pass that info on to their spawn.

Rampant ignorance should be dealt with, or at the very least, discussed. In this case, the OP's friend is being utterly absurd by accepting all of evolution, but clinging to creationism for man because "God did it". That's the old "God of the Gaps" theory, where God fills in the gaps as science closes in. Only this time it's someone who clearly knows and understands how the world works, but is willfully ignoring that to keep his God logical.

God and logic are separate things.

Also, the Torah, Bible, and Koran were all meant to be taken as nice stories. It's only been in the past few hundred years or so that priests decided to take them literally. Before that, it was supposed to be nice stories to teach you morality.

So even from a religious standpoint, it's bullshit to let ignorance run rampant. Even if it is a friend.

 

[Forbearance]

Oh dear how dare someone say that the earth is round

Have you ever been in to space to see that it's round? Doctored photos from the lizard people obviously.

 

[Brandon237]

A better description of what your friend actually believes would be helpful in assessing this.

But I have a cousin, he is 18, bright guy, but very christian, takes biology, he started a discussion with me about how much he thinks evolution is stupid, and hates having to learn it in biology. But he believes the bible word for word, which... annoys me. I didn't say anything because he is my cousin who I get along well with, but still... biblical literalist... na-ah.

 

[orangeapples]

God talks to people, but people don't always listen. The Bible records God talking to the prophets because they listened. God sent Jesus who talked in the modern language and people still didn't listen.

if a regular person is talking to you and you do not listen to them, you will not remember them talking to you. Same goes for God.

just because people don't listen to him, doesn't make God an asshole.

It's funny that people who usually claim that nowadays are diagnosed with some sort of schizofrenic disorder or something. My aunt works with people like that.

There are people who listen though, obeyed commands to kill people and all that. Well I reckon even God needs underlings for his wetwork.

Oh and by the way, the Bible records fairly little, it tells stories and claims that things happened (saying God talked to people doesn't mean it actually happened), but recording is different.

That's because those people say things that does not fall in line with what God says.

Lets assume that you are a world famous dietition and you told people that the key to eating healthy was a variety of different food groups in moderation and then someone starts to tell others that you told them that pizza and instant noodles are acceptable healthy foods and that it was okay to eat pizza and instant noodles all day long. Would people who listen to you accept that person as being a representative of you?

And yeah, I'll agree that 'records' is probably the wrong word because of how the modern Bible has come into being. I guess 'mentions' would be a better term.

 

[Raynooo]

Thanks for the link haven't seen this. Although is it compatible with mammalian reproduction? From my knowledge of the process if there is more than a natural double it won't produce. Interesting point though.

Well this specific toxin is highly cancerous (is that the right word ?) for humans (and I guess mammals in general). They teach us about this one because working on plants is both easy and ethical ("here kid, sit on this radioactive barrel for a couple hours so that we see if some of your cells turn into wolverine cells").
But the thing is it only increase the chance of it happening on its own but such mutations/errors happen on their own. A full quadruple set of chromosomes might be unlikely to happen naturally and maybe just having both of your #12 chromosomes go into one egg cell (ovary + spermatozoid), have this egg cell be healthy AND fertile is a matter of luck.
But luck is bound to happen in millions of year.

Also this : whenever a massive climate change/cataclysm happens, many species die and predators too. Once there's no/not much predators around and if your specie is one of the lucky one, then the "selection pressure" lowers on your specie (you have lot of room and ressources for your own kind) and small mutations that might otherwise weaken you won't kill you. With time small mutations might "grow" into useful ones and you sort of "evolve" faster though mutation rate stays the same.

 

[DracoSuave]

well, this is a perfect chance for you to practice tolerance and accept his beliefs are different then yours

or you can run to a message board and make out that he is a clueless wonder and feel superior

We live in a world where historically, humans would choose mates depending on environment, where women in one area would be considered unattractive, but in another would be considered attractive... because of physical traits that aided in successful reproduction and health of decendants.

We live in a world where animal breeders are able to, through simple selection by traits, change an entire species from a free roaming herd animal, to a billion dollar farm industry of fat indolent beasts.

We live in a world where medicines must constantly change simply because the surviving germs from one medical treatment reproduce and that medical treatment can no longer work on them.

We live in a world where species have changed from carbon-based to arsenic-based simply because the environment changed from normal to toxic.

How can one live in a world with these observable facts and claim with any reasonable and rationality that evolution is not the best theory to explain them? These phenomena PROVE evolution is the best theory.

It's not a matter of intolerance, it's a matter of rationality and advancement of knowledge. People don't want to believe it, that's fine. But that immediately disqualifies them from intellectual discourse on the matter, just as much as someone who advocates setting fire to computers as a form of fixing them should not speak as an 'opinion' on how to handle hacking.

 

[Sudenak]

Wow, this is a bad idea, but here goes.

Now, I don't consider myself a religious person, nor do I consider myself an atheist. I think "If the world was created against such astronomical odds, why can't there be the same astronomical chance that a superior being may indeed exist."

Now I don't mean God, for all we know it could be some little green alien scientist testing an AI program (Think Darwinia). The fact is, we don't know. I'd like to believe in a Deity-like being that gives purpose to existence sure, but God/s in their current form don't seem to.

If I was to go into my radical theology theory... What's to say that God does exist and he used evolution as a tool? I don't see why there is no acknowledgement of the middle ground between Militant Atheism and Hardcore Zealotry. Both sides fight to the hilt that I AM RIET AND U R RONG! and just end up making themselves look like jackasses.

THE FACT IS!!!

There IS middle ground that Evolutionists and Theologians can agree on, but both of them are too pigheaded and narrow minded to open up to the "Maybe" and the "What if" and people with my "Middle ground" belief (all 10 of us ><) get caught in the middle of your crap.

You're right. We don't know.

Now, the problem that I personally have with it is that it seems like we're just adding an unnecessary step. We have no way to prove (or disprove) the magical, ageless, all-powerful being pulling the strings behind evolution that loves humans more than any of the other creatures on the planet that it carefully constructed (and indeed, more than any of the other planets within its infinite cosmos).

I don't deny the possibility of some form of deity-like entity. I do deny the existence of any of the Western Gods. The Eastern Gods aren't meant to be taken literally (the Western Gods' stories aren't meant to be taken literally, but their Gods are), so there's no need to discount them.

I just don't buy that any all powerful, infinite, magical entity gives half a shit what I'm doing, much less if they're carefully ticking off every time that I masturbate as one more reason why I need to be tortured for all of eternity.

And that's where the divide comes in. No religious zealot is ever going to say "yeah, I guess my God doesn't exist, but there could be A God". Their entire belief system is structured around their made up man-God being the right one.

Think of it like...a console fanboy. They bought a console, and they will fight tooth and nail to prove it was the right one, the only good one, and that the other ones are all for retards. There is no middle ground with the majority of them.

 

[Woodsey]

Gravity has been a Law now for a bit.

What form of gravity?

Nothing's proven. Evolution is a theory.

And its a scientific fact. This has been gone over time and time again - something can be a scientific fact and a theory at the same time.

OT: If he was ignoring it because of religion... uh. If he'd looked at everything and decided for himself on a scientific level he didn't think it was correct, then at least he'd have gone through a rational process to get there, even if his end result was fairly unlikely.

Cannot get behind people who ignore facts for religion though.

(Also, is the bit about him believing solely humans are free from evolution what you actually meant, or just poor wording? Because that is grade-A retarded.)

 

[azukar]

Well, your friend is wrong.

Let's not forget the premise of the OP: the friend doesn't think that *humans* are part of evolution. Sadly for him, we're animals like the rest of them, an subject to the same scientific theory.

 

[Hamish Durie]

Me and one of my collage friends were having a discussion that came to be about evolution at some point. what you need to understand before replying is that this guy is probably one of the smartest people out there, the guy is a certified genius.
He practices Judaism up to a certain degree (separates meat a dairy and other stuff) but calling him religious will be a vast exaggeration.

So when this guy, who is probably the smartest guy I ever met told me he didn't believe that humans are apart of evolution it blew me away. To make things worse he said "there are some things that humans are meant to understand. and we are both Comp-Sci majors so rational thought is a given.

So..... WTF?!?!

do what i did Deal then live with it although in my case he was just doing it to mess with my head...got him back though hehe got him back

 

[Spineyguy]

There are plenty of very legitimate and really quite clever arguments against Evolution out there, not everyone says 'cus the bible says so'.

Michael Behe's The Flagellum motor found in human sperm cells, for example, would not work if any of its parts were missing. Now ignoring the minute chance that the components of the motor actually could occur randomly, the probability of which is so close to zero as to be negligible, even in the context of billions of years of evolution, this biological mechanism could be seen as 'evidence' for intelligent design

you do know that even today (inside you now if you are male) 50% of your sperm are defective. Some with 3 tails, some with 2 heads and others with no tails. If one of these "defective" mutations caused it to have an advantage it may go on to be dominant. Also with 200-500 million sperm cells being sent every time you..."go", there are allot of potential outcomes

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I do not believe in any form of intelligent design, and I do not accept the argument from Irreducible complexity as true, it is a theory in the same way that Evolution is a theory. I was merely stating that not all those who do believe in God as a creator deity are the kind of God-bothering, inbred, Sunday-school educated Americans that they are often made out to be. After two years of A-level Philosophy lessons, and an interest in the subject since the age of 12, I am well aware of the holes in Behe's arguments, and indeed many others.

 

[sketch_zeppelin]

You have two options here: you can either nod and smile and change the subject, never to revisit it again or you stare them straight in the eye and say "are you fucking high?" in which case you'll likely get locked into a long heated descussion about the topic.

my advice is to go with the WTF are you on option. you proabley won't change his mind but you may at least be able to figure out where logic process is coming from. plus then you can bring it up as jab when ever you want ammo in a descussion.

 

[Cowabungaa]

That's because those people say things that does not fall in line with what God says.

And you know that...how, exactly? It always go through

Lets assume that you are a world famous dietition and you told people that the key to eating healthy was a variety of different food groups in moderation and then someone starts to tell others that you told them that pizza and instant noodles are acceptable healthy foods and that it was okay to eat pizza and instant noodles all day long. Would people who listen to you accept that person as being a representative of you?

I wouldn't have representatives in the first place, so that'd be a non-issue with me. Anyone who would claim to be my representative is per definition talking out of their ass.

And if they would keep on claiming I told them so I myself would state in a public press release or something that that is not what I told that person.

And yeah, I'll agree that 'records' is probably the wrong word because of how the modern Bible has come into being. I guess 'mentions' would be a better term.

Even that is quite a lot and incredibly generous. Don't forget that many of those stories are older than the Bible itself, the origins of which are already clouded enough as it is. They went from mouth to mouth to mouth to hands who put it on paper, then lots and lots of hands who edited things, cut things out, putted other things in, etc. It's a collection of ancient stories, and lots of ancient stories claim a lot of things. This particular collection is just currently popular.

Spam coffee. Aquire super mutant powers.

Too bad I don't like coffe, but your superpower is most likely to be colon cancer though. It works well on plants because cancer is apparently not a big concern for them (couldn't say why though).

Well crap I just started to like coffee. Actually, I love it, especially around 7:00 in the morning.