When a Game Remasters Juuuuuuust right

max734734

New member
Nov 12, 2016
30
0
0
What makes a remaster? Other than the urge to release something as a result of being out of ideas.

Okay bad question to start with. Let's try this, what makes a remaster work?

By right, the term itself means modernizing something old with new conventions, which could mean all sorts of benefits, like adding stuff, tweaking bugs, making it better obviously.

But, should a remaster have the need to repair the faults of the original game?

I mean, if you take something old filled with bugs, and have it reborn with all those issues fixed, is it still the same game?
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Remaster? Best would be Ocarina of Time 3D. It did not vastly change -anything-. It upped the graphic quality, including giving Link his Majora's Mask belts, added a thing to help people if they get lost that is optional, added Master Quest, and made the Water Temple less confusing. Who knew that all it took to fix it was some vivid yellow lines?

Remasters should fix all negative bugs. Some might want to leave in fan-favorite bugs or exploits though if any. I prefer they not alter content too heavily though. I cant stand Majora's Mask 3D, cause it kept moving things, mostly in ways that make everything just kinda off which can really fuck with ya.

They generally should not 'update' it too much though cause it can also mess up how the game works. The remake of Metal Gear Solid 1 added a first person targeting mode thing that turned the fight against Revolver Ocelot into cake walk, since the whole fight was meant to use the over-head camera against the player.
 

Arnoxthe1

Elite Member
Dec 25, 2010
3,391
2
43
Well... Once the Master Chief Collection was patched of all those damned horrible online bugs, definitely that one.

There's also Serious Sam Fusion 2017 which was basically a HUGE port of all their old SS games (except 2) from the old engine to their newest one (Serious Engine 4) which is QUITE an amazing engine.

Finally, Tomb Raider: Anniversary is probably the BEST Tomb Raider game ever made.

-

For the worst remaster though, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Remastered. Hands down. The SP was great but everything else was just awful.


(Skip to 1:40.)
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
4,267
0
0
A button that you press to toggle between the new and old graphics is de facto the best feature a remaster can have.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Aerosteam said:
A button that you press to toggle between the new and old graphics is de facto the best feature a remaster can have.
Has any other games but the Halo remasters done that?
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
4,267
0
0
Saelune said:
Aerosteam said:
A button that you press to toggle between the new and old graphics is de facto the best feature a remaster can have.
Has any other games but the Halo remasters done that?
Not to my knowledge. :p
 

Ironman126

Dark DM Overlord
Apr 7, 2010
658
0
0
I've got to say that Homeworld: Remastered is the best I've ever seen. It left the core of the game alone, but applied a load of quality of life updates. It felt like the original, but looked modern and departed from all the old '90s UI design choices.

So, to answer the question, I think that a remastery needs to make UI fixes, update the graphics, apply some QOL updates, and maybe clean up any audio faults, but it should leave the core of the game, the gameplay, difficulty, etc, alone.
 

Squilookle

New member
Nov 6, 2008
3,584
0
0
Saelune said:
Aerosteam said:
A button that you press to toggle between the new and old graphics is de facto the best feature a remaster can have.
Has any other games but the Halo remasters done that?
The Lucasarts point and click adventures like Full Throttle, Monkey Island and Indiana Jones all had remastered graphics you could switch instantly between and hte old graphics if you so desired.

Aside from that, the Goldeneye XBLA remake had it built in, but sadly never got released because Activision, Microsoft and Nintendo just couldn't make up their minds over who should get the most money over its sales :'(

 

Arnoxthe1

Elite Member
Dec 25, 2010
3,391
2
43
Squilookle said:
Aside from that, the Goldeneye XBLA remake had it built in, but sadly never got released because Activision, Microsoft and Nintendo just couldn't make up their minds over who should get the most money over its sales :'(
Goldeneye was great when it came out and was a very important step for console shooters. But Perfect Dark then came out not that much later and made it completely and entirely fucking irrelevant in every damn way. <3
 

Squilookle

New member
Nov 6, 2008
3,584
0
0
Arnoxthe1 said:
Squilookle said:
Aside from that, the Goldeneye XBLA remake had it built in, but sadly never got released because Activision, Microsoft and Nintendo just couldn't make up their minds over who should get the most money over its sales :'(
Goldeneye was great when it came out and was a very important step for console shooters. But Perfect Dark then came out not that much later and made it completely and entirely fucking irrelevant in every damn way. <3
Correction- made Goldeneye's multiplayer irrelevant in almost every way, with it's introduction of multiplayer bots, custom weapon loadouts and greater variety of modes and arenas. Goldeneye's singleplayer, on the other hand, still utterly wipes the floor with Perfect Dark, with far more replayability, balance, and a much more satisfying experience overall.
 

Arnoxthe1

Elite Member
Dec 25, 2010
3,391
2
43
Squilookle said:
Arnoxthe1 said:
Squilookle said:
Aside from that, the Goldeneye XBLA remake had it built in, but sadly never got released because Activision, Microsoft and Nintendo just couldn't make up their minds over who should get the most money over its sales :'(
Goldeneye was great when it came out and was a very important step for console shooters. But Perfect Dark then came out not that much later and made it completely and entirely fucking irrelevant in every damn way. <3
Correction- made Goldeneye's multiplayer irrelevant in almost every way, with it's introduction of multiplayer bots, custom weapon loadouts and greater variety of modes and arenas. Goldeneye's singleplayer, on the other hand, still utterly wipes the floor with Perfect Dark, with far more replayability, balance, and a much more satisfying experience overall.
Meh. PD has more guns by far, better graphics, better functionality, and more customization (with Perfect Dark mode) than GE. And I think a lot of the levels are less linear than GE as well. Also, counter-op mode.
 

Felstaff

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
191
4
23
Black Mesa managed to get a lot right, but it was more of a Half-Life 2 experience set within the Black Mesa compound than an improved Half-Life 1 experience. Which is infinitely better than simply recreating HL1 maps with higher resolution textures [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HafcoaXgEa0], as all that does is emphasise just how much the game world has aged. Photo-realistic rock textures doesn't make a sheer-edged polygonal rockwall convincing; quite the opposite. It brings to the forefront the agedness of the game, which is like stepping in front of a high-def camera [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB0pBSre9UI].

In some cases, it might be better to stick to graphical reduction: The boom in 3D popularity in the late 90s destroyed a lot of 2D franchises that jumped on the polygonal bandwagon. Escape from Monkey Island was a travesty that effectively killed an entire genre, and should've stuck to 2D rather than succumb to the allure of the third dimension. Thinking about it, it wasn't just the graphics that made it a stinker, but my point stands. A remaster--not that it's worthy of one--should return it to its cartoonish hand-drawn roots.

Take the remaster of Gods, for example:
Holy heck what an ugly mess

Making shit look better is not enough: there are so many more aspects to consider when remastering. It's not just graphics that need to be updated: the mechanics of the game might have been revolutionary in 1992, or 1998, or 2006, or whatever, but tastes change as fast as the technology that replaced these games. No matter what anyone says, the remake of Final Fantasy VII will never recreate what made the original so special, because the original's mechanics are decrepit and unthinkable in a modern-day game, charming and nostalgic as they still are. In fact, play most PS1-era games nowadays, and once the soaking of nostalgia has dried up, you'd invariably be left with a very, very hard, frustrating game that requires Battletoadsian muscle-memory-like reactions and endless replays of short, uninteresting sections of game that you have to master before you can continue. These narrative-interrupting mechanics of pure tedium are not only present in games like Tomb Raider II, but all the way up to Uncharted 3. Think about it: without the constant interruption by hundreds of armed guards preventing Drake from continuing to the Nazi sub or whatever, the Uncharted games would last about 2 hours. Cover-shooting for 15 minutes every 100 yards you run is just interruptive and hearkens back to the early days where you can see the exit, but you can't get there without dying 748 times. These mechanics have evolved, somewhat, in Dark Souls-era games. The frustration/constant death is still there, but at least nowadays you can change your approach, and choose your own pathway and tactics. Tomb Raider, ehhh, you had one route, and it was a ***** to conquer.
Arnoxthe1 said:
Tomb Raider: Anniversary is probably the BEST Tomb Raider game ever made.
Yes! Crystal Dynamics managed to take the fun puzzle/exploration part of the game, and cut out the frustrating mis-timed jumping elements. It was a 1996 narrative with 2006 mechanics, and 10 years of gaming is nearly three generations of ever-evolving technology.

My favourite remaster is Abe's Oddysey: New 'n' Tasty, as it sharpens the graphics and the controls, and keeps the puzzle elements (which are timeless) and secrets the same. It was a good-looking game at the time, and only really needed higher-resolution graphics in the remaster (plus a tightening of controls, signposting, and more-responsive animation). I was a little uneasy about the transition of 'pseudo-3D flip-screen 2D' to 'pseudo-2D Unity-based 3D', but after a few minutes playing, you can see why they took that route. I even liked the bloom, which people thought took the industrialised look of the original and turned it into funfair-levels of overexposure, but I think it adds to the otherworldliness of the game.
 

Squilookle

New member
Nov 6, 2008
3,584
0
0
More guns, better graphics and functionality and customisation in PD yes, but singleplayer levels were much less linear in GE, and most would say counter-op, as amazing as it was, ran too slowly to be playable.

Don't get me wrong, Perfect Dark is the N64 game I go to first when I want some instant action multiplayer, but Goldeneye had the better singleplayer, with the same level of customisation (007 mode basically was Perfect Dark mode).

Also despite how many hundreds or thousands of hours I've put into PD loving every minute of it, I have to admit the design of it's arenas is pretty crap. Both Goldeneye and The World Is Not Enough had better multiplayer map design than PD.
 

max734734

New member
Nov 12, 2016
30
0
0
Fixing original bugs, performance issues, etc. is of course an essential part, but also anything that adds interesting new content is appreciated, although it should be optional to the original experience.

Loved Tomb Raider: Anniversary, Shadow of the Colossus, Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin, God of War Collection. Perhaps the biggest surprise was the original Killzone, as I?ve heard the original was pretty rough performance-wise and I kinda gave up on ever being able to play it. I wasn?t going to buy another PS2 for it so it was cool they redid that one.
 

stroopwafel

Elite Member
Jul 16, 2013
3,031
357
88
Aerosteam said:
Saelune said:
Aerosteam said:
A button that you press to toggle between the new and old graphics is de facto the best feature a remaster can have.
Has any other games but the Halo remasters done that?
Not to my knowledge. :p
Wonder boy on PS4 did it as well. I agree it's a neat feature.

Preferably a remaster just improves performance but keeps the rest intact. Not the biggest fan of up-resing SD resolutions as it just makes the texture quality much poorer. I recently played through one of my most favorite games of all time RE4 on PS4(which I believe is the 'ultimate PC edition') and noticed how bland and low on detail many 'filler' environments were. Something I never noticed on SD/tube television.

The PS3 port of Shadow of the Colossus actually greatly improved the experience by fixing the framerate and having way less stutter and being less jagged. With PS2 you really noticed how the game taxed the system to the max but the PS3 version ran much shooter.

Another would be Resident Evil Remake Remastered. The remake is a phenomenal game but here up-resing the pre-rendered backgrounds worked in the game's favor which shows how incredibly detailed they were even in 2002.
 

sageoftruth

New member
Jan 29, 2010
3,417
0
0
Saelune said:
Aerosteam said:
A button that you press to toggle between the new and old graphics is de facto the best feature a remaster can have.
Has any other games but the Halo remasters done that?
There was one game I saw that did that. I can't remember the name exactly. It was a side-scroller with a bit of metroidvania, where you could play as a small dragon, or a mouse with a shield, and a few other characters. The switching was extremely significant in this case, considering the original was an NES game. It let you switch from NES graphics with bit music, to hand-drawn with instrumental music, back and forth. It was like jumping between two completely different games with the exact same mechanics and level design. It made you want to keep switching back and forth in each area.

EDIT: Looks like Stroopwafel had the same idea. So as he said, it was called Wonder Boy. I saw a neat Lets Play of it.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
14,334
0
0
I liked the DS version of Chrono Trigger even if the updated script did changed one of the funniest character interactions in the game. They changed the line where Frog called Slash "Sir Slush." That was funny! Oh well. Also they tried to tie it more into Chrono Cross which is something I try and ignore. I prefer to pretend Chrono Cross is a stand alone game with no connection to Chrono Trigger.
 

Veldel

Mitth'raw'nuruodo
Legacy
Apr 28, 2010
2,263
0
1
Lost in my mind
Country
US
Gender
Guy
Saelune said:
Remaster? Best would be Ocarina of Time 3D. It did not vastly change -anything-. It upped the graphic quality, including giving Link his Majora's Mask belts, added a thing to help people if they get lost that is optional, added Master Quest, and made the Water Temple less confusing. Who knew that all it took to fix it was some vivid yellow lines?

Remasters should fix all negative bugs. Some might want to leave in fan-favorite bugs or exploits though if any. I prefer they not alter content too heavily though. I cant stand Majora's Mask 3D, cause it kept moving things, mostly in ways that make everything just kinda off which can really fuck with ya.

They generally should not 'update' it too much though cause it can also mess up how the game works. The remake of Metal Gear Solid 1 added a first person targeting mode thing that turned the fight against Revolver Ocelot into cake walk, since the whole fight was meant to use the over-head camera against the player.
I never understood how people had trouble with the water temple I always found it pretty easy to do.


OT: They should fix fatel bugs and improve how the game looks and plays in ways to fit the new controller.

Oh and add some new content or some incentive like a new super dungeon or post game stuff.
 

Veldel

Mitth'raw'nuruodo
Legacy
Apr 28, 2010
2,263
0
1
Lost in my mind
Country
US
Gender
Guy
Squilookle said:
More guns, better graphics and functionality and customisation in PD yes, but singleplayer levels were much less linear in GE, and most would say counter-op, as amazing as it was, ran too slowly to be playable.

Don't get me wrong, Perfect Dark is the N64 game I go to first when I want some instant action multiplayer, but Goldeneye had the better singleplayer, with the same level of customisation (007 mode basically was Perfect Dark mode).

Also despite how many hundreds or thousands of hours I've put into PD loving every minute of it, I have to admit the design of it's arenas is pretty crap. Both Goldeneye and The World Is Not Enough had better multiplayer map design than PD.
Counter Co-op is prob one of my fav modes ever and I wish more games had it. The first few levels of PD and playing with a friend is damn fun.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Veldie said:
Saelune said:
Remaster? Best would be Ocarina of Time 3D. It did not vastly change -anything-. It upped the graphic quality, including giving Link his Majora's Mask belts, added a thing to help people if they get lost that is optional, added Master Quest, and made the Water Temple less confusing. Who knew that all it took to fix it was some vivid yellow lines?

Remasters should fix all negative bugs. Some might want to leave in fan-favorite bugs or exploits though if any. I prefer they not alter content too heavily though. I cant stand Majora's Mask 3D, cause it kept moving things, mostly in ways that make everything just kinda off which can really fuck with ya.

They generally should not 'update' it too much though cause it can also mess up how the game works. The remake of Metal Gear Solid 1 added a first person targeting mode thing that turned the fight against Revolver Ocelot into cake walk, since the whole fight was meant to use the over-head camera against the player.
I never understood how people had trouble with the water temple I always found it pretty easy to do.


OT: They should fix fatel bugs and improve how the game looks and plays in ways to fit the new controller.

Oh and add some new content or some incentive like a new super dungeon or post game stuff.
Well, based on the addition of the lines, its the tediousness of going back and forth, up and down, and changing water levels. Its not -hard-, its just not -fun- and that makes many people give up or not bother. And its annoying when you just cant seem to find that one key you missed.