When did Dune start becoming bad?

[mrhappyface]

Well ever since I was little, I always played the game Dune 2. Since I always played, I naturally read the books Frank Herbert wrote and I was very happy that I was reading quality sci fi for the first time. However, the books that his son and Anderson wrote have a very obvious difference in quality. Although I think the Butlerian Jihad prequels were done pretty well, since they didn't have much to do with the present storyline, the House prequels were OK, but the Legends and the "sequels" to Frank Herbert's work was atrocious. When do you think Dune started to become bad?

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

I've only read the original trilogy. Not entirely sure if I want to read any of the follow-up books, cause I've heard they're weaksauce, so I'm hoping that this thread gets some more replies pretty soon!!

 

[helldragonX]

They became bad when he stopped writing them...

 

[targren]

They became bad when he stopped writing them...

Pretty much says it all.

 

[Frequen-Z]

I used to work in a book store (despite not having read a page in years) and during my lengthy discussions with the guy in charge of the sci-fi area, he always told me that if I was to read Dune, only to read the Frank Herbert ones. Since this opinion seems to be global, it might as well be fact.

 

[Dragon_of_red]

Dune was awesome, and still is, i should re-read it...

Ive only read the first one though, we have the others but i got sidetracked by Magician...

 

[revjay]

In my opinion the only Dune books were written by Frank Herbert. I heard of more but wouldn't be bothered to read them, much like my take on JRRRRRRRR Tolkien's writings.

 

[Dublin Solo]

I don't know.... I've the first three books, couldn't bear finishing the fourth. The movie from 1984 was OK, but the 2000 mini-series, AWFUL!!!!

I mean, they couldn't even manage not to make a typo when they put a black screen and wrote in capital white letters: "MAUD'DIB" instead of "MUAD'DIB". Come on, it's only seven letters, guys.

 

[Meggiepants]

I loved the David Lynch movie actually. Nowhere near as deep as the books, but I will pay an infinite amount of money to watch Sting get the shit kicked out of him.

Heh heh! Yes, that was a good scene.

OT: I read up through God Emperor, but I could never really get past that one. I kind of felt like I had read all I could about Dune at that point. I enjoyed those fairly well, with the first two being my favorites. But once Herbert started writing entire chapters of philosophical conversation between two characters, my interest began to check out.

 

[Richard Hannay]

They became bad during Frank Herbert's second trilogy; I just could not get through Heretics. As for Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson, I'd say they started out strictly mediocre and declined from there. Hunters of Dune might actually be the worst book I've ever read.

That said, the original Dune is definitely my favorite book. I reread it once every year.

 

[Lullabye]

I never enjoyed Dune. Not to say it was bad(I know good qaulity whenI see it), it was simply to "pro-protagonist" for me.
That being said, there is an obvious decline later in teh series, mayhap around the second trilogy or so? I never really read it all. Just bits and pieces here an there.

 

[Richard Hannay]

I never enjoyed Dune. Not to say it was bad (I know good quality when I see it), it was simply too "pro-protagonist" for me.

Pro-protagonist? As opposed to what, pro-antagonist? I'm not sure I follow.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

The books after Children of Dune... got weird, which is saying something because Dune was always kind of weird. They weren't bad (and I just realized I've apparently never read the last novel in the second trilogy, huh), it's just there was this odd shift in the tone and an increasing emphasis on sex that I found a trifle off-putting. Still, worth reading at least once.

The 'new' Dune novels though?

 

[Lullabye]

I never enjoyed Dune. Not to say it was bad (I know good quality when I see it), it was simply too "pro-protagonist" for me.

Pro-protagonist? As opposed to what, pro-antagonist? I'm not sure I follow.

Hmm, I knew it sounded wierd.
Well, it all started in the beginning of Dune. With the whole "child of Prophecy" type stuff. I could handle that. I mean, it's everywhere in literature(but generic none the less).
But then he turns out to be both god and satan and hitler and jesus and I lost track of what I was reading this for. I mean, at first I felt sorry for the kid because he had to shoulder sucha hard fate, and reading through the first part of the first book, I was engrossed in his struggle to belong, to adapt, to grow up.(I was a young teen myself so it was appropriately enthralling). Then suddenly it became as if he were nothing short of the most powerful person in existence. And he was. Where is the interest in reading that? I mean, sure he falls, and falls hard, and the many subplots were nice and all, but in the end, I might as well read a history textbook about a king of england, for all the retarded crap that took place within the many famililes.
In all this, at some point, the Pro became too....I don't know, haughty.(and none of the sub characters made me want to read it more, least of all the bitchy mother)
I'll never forget one scene that made me cringe:
Mother and son are in an arguement, when suddenly he yells at the top of his lungs "I will go into that dark place that you women are afraid of , and you will look into that dark place and I will be looking back at you!" or something to that cheesy effect. Reading through this little scene made me do a double take. Did I really just read that? From the original Frank Herbert Novel?(I had heard the other books in the series were worse, and done by his family) I didn't want to read on. But I did. upon a second read through I realized much of the novel made out the protagonist to be nothing short of a god. Lots of "ohhhhhhh & ahhhh" look at how he captured that huge worm in one try! blah blah blah.*sigh* I didn't care for it, and ultimately lost interest in teh series. it was well written, but could have been a little more realistic in my opinion. I thought it was supposed to be sci-fi, not anime.
Just my opnion though.

 

[Richard Hannay]

I never enjoyed Dune. Not to say it was bad (I know good quality when I see it), it was simply too "pro-protagonist" for me.

Pro-protagonist? As opposed to what, pro-antagonist? I'm not sure I follow.

Hmm, I knew it sounded wierd.
Well, it all started in the beginning of Dune. With the whole "child of Prophecy" type stuff. I could handle that. I mean, it's everywhere in literature(but generic none the less).
But then he turns out to be both god and satan and hitler and jesus and I lost track of what I was reading this for. I mean, at first I felt sorry for the kid because he had to shoulder sucha hard fate, and reading through the first part of the first book, I was engrossed in his struggle to belong, to adapt, to grow up.(I was a young teen myself so it was appropriately enthralling). Then suddenly it became as if he were nothing short of the most powerful person in existence. And he was. Where is the interest in reading that? I mean, sure he falls, and falls hard, and the many subplots were nice and all, but in the end, I might as well read a history textbook about a king of england, for all the retarded crap that took place within the many famililes.
In all this, at some point, the Pro became too....I don't know, haughty.(and none of the sub characters made me want to read it more, least of all the bitchy mother)
I'll never forget one scene that made me cringe:
Mother and son are in an arguement, when suddenly he yells at the top of his lungs "I will go into that dark place that you women are afraid of , and you will look into that dark place and I will be looking back at you!" or something to that cheesy effect. Reading through this little scene made me do a double take. Did I really just read that? From the original Frank Herbert Novel?(I had heard the other books in the series were worse, and done by his family) I didn't want to read on. But I did. upon a second read through I realized much of the novel made out the protagonist to be nothing short of a god. Lots of "ohhhhhhh & ahhhh" look at how he captured that huge worm in one try! blah blah blah.*sigh* I didn't care for it, and ultimately lost interest in teh series. it was well written, but could have been a little more realistic in my opinion. I thought it was supposed to be sci-fi, not anime.
Just my opnion though.

Ah, I see what you're getting at now. Yeah, the prophecy/destiny thing can rub me the wrong way too when I think it's done poorly or pointlessly (i.e. Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland; what a waste of time). That said, I think your argument hinges on the notion that the protagonist is only interesting when he has to overcome a threat to himself, and greater themes of Dune simply aren't about that. Just because it ultimately is accepted by the desert fremen doesn't mean that the conflict is gone. Paul spends the last sections of the book trying to escape a paradox he's trapped himself in; he needed to mythologize himself to survive, but that myth runs a serious risk of killing billions in the form of a religious war. He needs to stop it, but how does he do that (even killing himself won't do it?he'd just be a martyr). The conflict shifts in an unusual and fundamental way, and if you miss it (no offense intended, but I think you might have), and keep looking for a personal survival-based conflict (which the first half of the book definitely is), you will come up empty for the reason you've cited: the guy's a god.