When does someone deserve death?

[ace_of_something]

What about you? Are there people that deserve death?
What would a person have to do to deserve death?
Instead of death for the most horrible of actions, what fate should they receive?

Hi! I'm actually a professor (well, i'm teaching it for the first time this semester) on this very kind of thing.

While lex talionis is always an attractive option. Statistic after statistic shows that adding or abolishing a death penalty doesn't actually effect the rate of capital offenses. Ever. Anywhere. So it clearly doesn't work as a deterrent.

As you already stated due to the appeals process, higher security, and not to mention that the health of someone on death row tends to on average be poorer (and therefor more expensive) that a death row inmate on average will cost more than a life sentence. In fact people that have life sentences (anywhere but Texas this is true) tend to die of natural causes within 1-3 years of when they would've been put to death anyway. Living in prison is no picnic and ages you terribly.
I've worked in a similar environment before and lifers/in-n-outers (guys who while not ever getting a life sentence still spend most of their life in jail due to repeated minor offenses) you will always guess them being 10-15 years older than they actually are.

Personally, I'm against the death penalty as a christian. But as a pragmatist I know there are some instances where it's the only thing that will stop more lives from ending. I'm thinking like facist dictators or violent terrorist leaders here. (Though then you've got the 'martyrdom' thing to worry about)

Sorry if this was tl:dnr

location: a very very red state

 

[GiglameshSoulEater]

Shoot the worst offenders - murders, terrorists, traitors - and be done with it.
It costs, where I buy my ammunition, around £10 for a box of fifty .38.
That'll kill someone.

 

[Blastinburn]

Killing is a tool for the week, a way to deal with a person or group that you have no other way to to protect yourself or others from, always a last resort.

I personally don't believe in death as punishment, I prefer to think of it as a way to remove those who would harm others. So whether I would sentence somone to death would depend on how guilty they feel and the likely-hood of them causing more harm. Other methods would be attempted first, such as: rehabiliation, psychiatry, prison (sometimes people leave reformed/new).

An addition to my stance is that purposefully killing (or attempting to kill) someone who has not forfeited their right to life forfeits your right to life (exception to self defense). They don't value life so you treat them with their values (this does not mean they deserve death, rather that there would be nothing wrong with taking their life). But I also believe it is possible to become a new person, in which case they earn their right to life back (no I don't have a way to verify this).

Last point: Attempted murder = murder. Someone should not be let go or have reduced charges because their potential victim managed to survive. If anyone can provide a justified reason for this I would love to hear it.

(from New Jersey, United States)

 

[NightHawk21]

A lot less then it takes to kill a single person.

That's not a point against the death penalty, but rather a point against how that decision is achieved and how the action is carried out.

Simply killing someone can be rather inexpensive, if cost were the primary concern.

Not disagreeing with you. As I said in my other posts though, the current legal process required to kill someone in the US is way more expensive then housing someone for life. Still how exactly would you propose to cut down legal costs.

 

[Rnr1224]

i see it as highly circumstantial. but doing so in self-defense if he was going to kill you, then i see that as a good enough cause

 

[vesago]

I beleive it should be when someome takes somebody's life and/or inicence (rape or chld molestion) and for those things you should get the nazi gas chamber

 

[silasbufu]

If someone kills a person "just because" or fore some idiotic reason brewed inside their psychotic brain, he/she deserves death in my opinion.

Got some other examples but that's the one that jumped out .

 

[orangeban]

No-one deserves to die. If I'm about to be knifed, I have the right to protect my life, and if that involves killing the dude then so be it. For the second scenario, I'd refuse to kill the accused. Send him to jail, help him rehabilitate, ect. ect. no death.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

This is probably one of the most important things you will ever watch.

Edit: Posted the wrong video earlier (though related and still interesting!)

To summarize my views: People are responsible for their actions, but not in the way you probably think they are. Once you have a better view of it, moral justifications can be reduced to functional justifications. Killing people is an expedient solution to the problems they tend to produce. This expedience is no longer necessary and the potential good that can be done by these people when we use other methods to avoid the problems of their problematic behavior outweights the need for expediency.

 

[spartan231490]

Rape deserves worse than death, and murder may also deserve death.

why?

Because They are despicable and monstrous acts that cannot be forgiven. You are destroying a person's life your own selfishness.

 

[zehydra]

Rape deserves worse than death, and murder may also deserve death.

why?

Because They are despicable and monstrous acts that cannot be forgiven. You are destroying a person's life your own selfishness.

and why does that person deserve death?

 

[spartan231490]

Rape deserves worse than death, and murder may also deserve death.

why?

Because They are despicable and monstrous acts that cannot be forgiven. You are destroying a person's life your own selfishness.

and why does that person deserve death?

Because they are beyond forgiveness. What they have done is so monstrous that the only acceptable punishment is death.

 

[Vigilantis]

Apologies. I jumped the gun a little - I misunderstood what point you were making. I was assuming that you were talking as a person who would be paying for these people, so I was pointing out that it's actually cheaper to keep them locked up rather than give them the death sentence.

If you're in such a crappy position as to murder someone just so you could go to prison... Then yeah, again, I've got no problem with paying that tiny amount of taxto keep you in prison. If you're really that screwed up, then I'd rather keep you locked up than on the streets.

Now, yes, if the death penalty was in place, this may not even occur to you as an option if you'll just end up being killed yourself. However, if the death penalty was in place, there would be innocent people murdered anyway. It's just that this way, they'd be killed legally, by the state.
(A couple things to note. Yes, there are people who are killed by the state who were actually innocent, and yes, the number of these people may be small, but surely that number is as small as those who, somehow, didn't get to successfully apply for money from the government, didn't manage to make it into shelters, etc., and after all this would actually murder someone just so that they could get into prison of all places.)

Neither situation is inherently better or worse. It's just that one way has murderer's either rehabilitated and re-entering society as "normal" people again or being locked up for the rest of their life (the problem being that, yes, there may be some people out there who are so incredibly desperate that they'd kill just to get into prison, however I'd like to re-iterate that without seeing any statistics I'd probably say that this number of people would be pretty low), the other has possibly less people committing murder and other heinous crimes some would deem worthy of the death penalty (but this way has some innocent people killed, too).

Thanks for the flashbacks to Criminal Justice 101, I know that men/women are imprisoned and/or sent to death row wrongfully (literally its pounded into your head all the way up to the academy) and that there's a likely chance in a Cops lifetime that he will commit even one innocent to such a fate.

So tell me, if the cost for the death penalty (according to your statistics) were a lower cost than to house said inmates, would you or would you not be in favor of it as at this point it seems you are the one worried about money lol. If average Joe on the escapist with no street smarts can see this loop in the system allowing them a free home for the rest of their miserable lives I have no doubt many an actual person knows of this tactic and should things go bottoms up they can always rely on it as a backup. Sorry no statistics/graphs to show you (pie charts just make me hungry)

You are correct, either way innocents die whether it be on the streets or in prison, and the system is there to attempt to weed out the absolutely guilty from the maybe he did it maybe he didn't guys. The system will never be perfect and the innocent slaughtering will never be stopped, its just a matter of attempting to reinforce and prevent said matters. I however do not see the point in allowing a murderer the pleasure of living 40+ years well fed and taken care of where as the 5 year old child he killed never made it to a quarter of the guys age. Also have you thought about the murders being committed after imprisonment? Just because they have life in prison doesn't mean they suddenly become sorry for their actions and stop. Many a innocent prisoner and guard are killed by these same guys who come off the street for the same actions.

Finally no I am not insinuating that you yourself would be paying for "my" room and board, simply that if you are willing to pay for this tax that others are willing as well and if that's the case I also end up having to pay this tax because...ITS A TAX, and if you haven't noticed I'd rather burn all my assets before allowing a scumbag to leech off me. If you truly do not care for the cost of imprisonment to the death penalty I understand. I have no doubt you are a good person whom has the ultimate goal of protecting life, and life should be cherished by all, of which I commend your actions noting that the world needs more people like yourself. Sadly as stated before, I do not see everyone as being redeemable at the end of the day.

 

[Eggsnham]

Because sentencing a rightfully convicted murderer/rapist/whatever evil crime you can think to convict someone of to death is only stooping to their level, and because said criminal deserves real punishment, they can have life in maximum security prison where they'll be forced to do hard labor daily.

 

[Soviet Steve]

At no point do people 'deserve' death as such, it'll come to everyone regardless of what happens. Use of potentially deadly force can be justified when dealing with a highly dangerous situation wherein an individual is attempting to kill several people.

One shouldn't aim to kill, but such outcomes can be inevitable in certain cases.

 

[Terminate421]

When they have proven to the world that they are no longer Human beings, but assholes who cannot under any circumstances be controlled. Not a beast, even the strongest beast can be calmed. But a Demon, thats impossible. (But this is only for punishment)

For defending oneself? Thats uncontrollable, if someone attacks me and I suspect them of having a weapon and I just so happen to fire and kill them. Then he pretty much deserves it. I didn't want to kill him, but he attacked me accepting the risks that come with it.

 

[Torrasque]

What about you? Are there people that deserve death?
What would a person have to do to deserve death?
Instead of death for the most horrible of actions, what fate should they receive?

Hi! I'm actually a professor (well, i'm teaching it for the first time this semester) on this very kind of thing.

While lex talionis is always an attractive option. Statistic after statistic shows that adding or abolishing a death penalty doesn't actually effect the rate of capital offenses. Ever. Anywhere. So it clearly doesn't work as a deterrent.

As you already stated due to the appeals process, higher security, and not to mention that the health of someone on death row tends to on average be poorer (and therefor more expensive) that a death row inmate on average will cost more than a life sentence. In fact people that have life sentences (anywhere but Texas this is true) tend to die of natural causes within 1-3 years of when they would've been put to death anyway. Living in prison is no picnic and ages you terribly.
I've worked in a similar environment before and lifers/in-n-outers (guys who while not ever getting a life sentence still spend most of their life in jail due to repeated minor offenses) you will always guess them being 10-15 years older than they actually are.

Personally, I'm against the death penalty as a christian. But as a pragmatist I know there are some instances where it's the only thing that will stop more lives from ending. I'm thinking like facist dictators or violent terrorist leaders here. (Though then you've got the 'martyrdom' thing to worry about)

Sorry if this was tl:dnr

location: a very very red state

Pffft, hardly TL;DR. My original post is more TL;DR
I'm guessing you are teaching ethics regarding death? Or is it more specific than that?
My ethics class touched on this subject, but we never go into it in much depth.

 

[Torrasque]

Thanks for the flashbacks to Criminal Justice 101, I know that men/women are imprisoned and/or sent to death row wrongfully (literally its pounded into your head all the way up to the academy) and that there's a likely chance in a Cops lifetime that he will commit even one innocent to such a fate.

So tell me, if the cost for the death penalty (according to your statistics) were a lower cost than to house said inmates, would you or would you not be in favor of it as at this point it seems you are the one worried about money lol. If average Joe on the escapist with no street smarts can see this loop in the system allowing them a free home for the rest of their miserable lives I have no doubt many an actual person knows of this tactic and should things go bottoms up they can always rely on it as a backup. Sorry no statistics/graphs to show you (pie charts just make me hungry)

You are correct, either way innocents die whether it be on the streets or in prison, and the system is there to attempt to weed out the absolutely guilty from the maybe he did it maybe he didn't guys. The system will never be perfect and the innocent slaughtering will never be stopped, its just a matter of attempting to reinforce and prevent said matters. I however do not see the point in allowing a murderer the pleasure of living 40+ years well fed and taken care of where as the 5 year old child he killed never made it to a quarter of the guys age. Also have you thought about the murders being committed after imprisonment? Just because they have life in prison doesn't mean they suddenly become sorry for their actions and stop. Many a innocent prisoner and guard are killed by these same guys who come off the street for the same actions.

Finally no I am not insinuating that you yourself would be paying for "my" room and board, simply that if you are willing to pay for this tax that others are willing as well and if that's the case I also end up having to pay this tax because...ITS A TAX, and if you haven't noticed I'd rather burn all my assets before allowing a scumbag to leech off me. If you truly do not care for the cost of imprisonment to the death penalty I understand. I have no doubt you are a good person whom has the ultimate goal of protecting life, and life should be cherished by all, of which I commend your actions noting that the world needs more people like yourself. Sadly as stated before, I do not see everyone as being redeemable at the end of the day.

Are you replying to someone else? Because my original topic asks you to ignore the whole legal system, and focus on the actual killing of the person.
Many others have brought up the points you are addressing, but not I.
As far as this thread goes, I want you all to ignore the legal procedure, and focus on whether you think it is ok to end a person's life.

 

[Henkie36]

Well, here is the law, if you kill someone while he's trying to rob or even rape or kill you, you go to jail. Bwerk. My old-man government think we can't handle ourselves. But wheter or not someone deserves death is a different sory all together. I myself think that if some tries to kill me with a knife, I take the knife from him and stab him in the neck with it, he shouldn't have tried to kill me in the first place, hence not my fault but his. And did he really deserve to die? In that case, I'd say yes. But something like the death penatly is pointless, unless you do it quickly. So do it shortly after the processs or don't do it at all.

 

[Jakub324]

1) Damn straight I'd kill him! Without hesitation, it would be one shot to kill him, and another to kill him again.
2) No, I wouldn't. I'd send him inside for the next 50 years, though.

If it's you or the other guy, and you've done nothing wrong, and the guy if fully aware of that, you have every right to end him, in my opinion.