When EA falls, Ubisoft will rise.
- Thread starter Matthew Jabour
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The point is simply saying that and adding gestapo style DRM lost Ubisoft 95% of its PC sales for most of the 2011-2012. Only after they removed the DRM did they see sales return to normal. Yes piracy is high but another interesting statistic is that people who pirate things (games, books, movies, etc) are most likely to buy the product if they like it.Tom Waits said:
All three have happened (I maintain that Prince of Persia 2008 was excellent).thesilentman said:
It's weird how almost no gamers realize this. It's almost like they only pay attention when it lets them hate something.
Do you actually believe that? People who pirate things are most likely to buy the product if they like it? We are talking tiny portion of the pirates. Also, even that's true for argument's sake, does that make it okay to pirate?AzrealMaximillion said:
No no no no stop. Can everybody please fucking stop talking about "the fall of EA", please? Despite the continual bitching of the public, they aren't going away any time soon. Besides, the death/bankruptcy/liquidation of the company would cause more problems than the ones it solves.
Companies that dictatorially force DRM and needless DLC without repose are bound to fail. A company can only alienate its consumer base so much before said consumers will stop supporting them. EA is learning that the hard way, and Ubisoft isn't too far behind along with Capcom. If anything, I predict another video game crash to come with the online Indie market to resuscitate it after the ashes clear.
Did I say that its ok to pirate? No I don't believe so. In fact my feelings on piracy weren't even mentioned. I merely stated that people who pirate are more likely to buy the product they pirate. That's a truth. Google the studies. There's really no such things as a blind purchase anymore when it comes to digital products. But the fact that DRM dues more harm to the people who purchase the product then those who don't is an important one to remember.Tom Waits said:
That and there are ways to combat piracy that have actually shown a boost in sales. Some examples.
The first half of Neil Gaiman's book "American Gods" was put up on his website by him, for people to read. It came to be his best selling book.
The trend of artists streaming their albums in their CDQ entirety weeks before they release them is increasing. Most mainstream massive label artists do it now, to have people listen to their music and decide to buy it, rather than listen to bad quality TPB rips(in some cases).
These examples coupled with the studies that show that most people who pirate are more likely to buy the product in question, show that piracy isn't as bad as the suits who push DRM say.
Now we can have a discussion on how piracy is hurting sale if you want, but I'll have to know that the PC market(the main target of gaming piracy/DRM) is growing:[link]http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/28/pc-gaming-in-still-not-dead-shocker/[/link] while console sales shrink, and consoles are harder to pirate games on.
Well yeah but GTA 4 was rubbish. The brand name has fallen a long way since San Andreas.Irridium said:
This is a great way of putting it.Forlong said:
The thing people like us, (gamer's who pay attention to the gaming media, go to sites like this) do not understand is that we are a minority. 20 % at the absolute max, much less in regards to some genres. Most people who buy games are indifferent to EA, believe me I work at EB Games. In fact for all the supposed shit storm around SimCity, of the 100 or so copy's I have sold, no one has asked for a return, and only 2 people have bitched about the servers or the always online DRM.
In reality most consumers of video games, like some games and buy them its as simple as that, that is all, that is it. No amount of hipster boycotting is going to change that.
In reality most consumers of video games, like some games and buy them its as simple as that, that is all, that is it. No amount of hipster boycotting is going to change that.
I didn't say you said it's okay to pirate. I'm just simply asking the question. Since you're the one bring up the idea that pirates are more likely to buy the product they pirate. Which I really don't think that's the case. However, you're the one with the "case studies" and I'm just talking out of my arse and based it on my own experience.AzrealMaximillion said:
You bring up bunch of examples, but none of them are really in the field of gaming. In my opinion, piracy is benefitial in music, arguably prejudicial to movies and definitly prejudicial to games.
Most money singers make is with concerts. Singers earn a very small portion of the CD's sales, so if the music get's spread with piracy, more people at the concerts.
Movies also don't have that many problems. Most of them can make ALL the money back before the movie comes out in DVD format, so most of the complaints on that end are about "oh look how much money we could have made with DVD's but we didn't".
Games are the worst, as it doesn't really provide any benefits. While you might say that games get more known because of that, an indie studio that doesn't have deep pocket will get into some serious financial troubles before they get to release their next game.
It's human nature, why would anyone pay for something if they can get it for free and get away with it.
I'm talking for the future. Not in the past, but the future. I'm also talking about the public opinion of Ubisoft, as most of the market is not going to look at the game only. The PR is also going to come into play; hence my three comments above.lacktheknack said:
But they've STOPPED using the DRM and shafting the PC gamers. They've STOPPED insisting that their DRM is magic.thesilentman said:
They've announced it, stuck with it, and generally done everything they can to get the message across. Rayman Origins: Always-On-DRM free. Assassin's Creed 3: Always-On-DRM free. Assassin's Creed 2: Always-On-DRM repealed. Anno 2070: Always-On-DRM repealed, hardware-attachment repealed. Not a goddamned person on these blasted interwebz gives a shit. The instant Ubisoft does anything wrong, gamers reveal their parasitic nature and viciously attack them, but when they do something right, all of a sudden no one cares.
HEY GUYS: YOU CAN STOP BOYCOTTING UBISOFT NOW. THEY'VE STOPPED SUCKING. SERIOUSLY. GUYS? GUYS! MAYBE YOU SHOULD READ ALL THE UBISOFT ARTICLES RATHER THAN JUST THE BAD ONES! CAN ANYONE HEAR ME?
What more do you want? Are you waiting for flowers and chocolates?
Act one scene one: as EA falls over and finished the dramatic death scene we here a crunching noise. Out of EA many small Ubisofts are eating the body coming out in disgusting ways. We pan up and the small ubisofts form a large ubisoft. Ubisoft looks down to the skeleton of ea and says "thank you cousin, you have been helpful." After Ubisoft leaves the room the EA skeletons eyes glow red.
It's 'he', thank you very much. What has EA done to personally wrong me, you may ask? A trick question. If I had been of half a mind to purchase SimCity 5 or Medal of Honor: Warfighter, or if I was ever gullible enough to download Origin, then I could tell you reams. But a vampire cannot enter your house unless you invite it, and I have managed to steer clear of their malign influence. Mind you, I'm still bitter about Bullfrog.AzrealMaximillion said:
Disagreed. Anodyne was advertised on the Pirate Bay after it was being pirated on the site. The attention helped the game become a success.Tom Waits said:
Hotline Miami was massively pirated online. So much so that it became a news story and generated more word of mouth about an already critically acclaimed and anticipated indie release. The developer is currently making a sequel.
You assume that all indie game studios are capable of good PR and marketing, crucial aspects of getting an indie title known. You have to admit, a lot of indie titles don't even make it to the "getting pirated" stage. Also, not every indie game is something special anymore. There are so many reputable indie titles that have come out nowadays. The attitude towards indie games is to treat them as you would a regular AAA game. People are more likely to buy it if they like it, and very few websites review a good portion of indie games even today. And word of mouth on the internet is dodgy sometimes. People treat pirating games as renting it from Blockbuster now. If they don't like it, it's deleted. If they do like it, they buy it. Games with online aspects are also not worth pirating because pirated copies can't be used to play online in the majority of cases.
A good chunk of indie games are also sold as alpha tests anyways, and no one puts those up on TPB. No point.
That strawman logic doesn't explain how massive companies can consistently have their games pirated beyond belief and still sell millions of copies. If everyone is as greedy as you make them out to be, no video game company that makes games for the PC would survive.
Here's a list of the most pirated games of all time:[link] http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-pirated-games-time/[\link]
Now let's take a look at COD Black Ops. Downloaded 4.27 million times. But it also was the biggest entertainment launch in US history at the time of its release. Sold 5.6 million dollars. Do you mean to tell me that 4.27 million PC players just didn't wind up buying Black Ops after downloading it? Because that seems to be what you're suggesting. It also would be illogical as you can't play COD online with a pirated version.
Everygame on that list has been massively pirated in the millions, but also sold millions in their own right for being games people enjoyed playing/had to pay to get the full game.
So we now have it that piracy isn't hurting indie games as much as you're making it seem. We also have it showing that people buy what they pirate of they like it or if they want to access all of it(meaning they liked it enough to pay for the access).
You want to know why people pay for things they can get for free?
A) The product you pay for is usually in better quality and has all parts accessible.
B) People have enough respect for each other to pay someone for the work they did on a game they enjoyed.
C) Not everyone is a dick. Seriously I know you're not pro DRM, but you have to realize that throwing all piracy as the major problem for any financial troubles in the PC gaming industry is a flawed outlook to have.
What's been the major reason for the poor sales/poor reception for Diablo 3, Sim City 3, Miner Wars 2081, any Ubisoft game released in 2011? Draconian DRM. That's LOST money across the board due to idiotic business decisions. On the flipside as I mentioned piracy is seeming like one of the best ways to advertise indie games as of late.
It may be human nature to take something if its free and you can get away with it. It's also human nature to reward people for their hard work in a fair way. That's why most people who pirate games wind up buying them if they like them, and not just having a stack of pirated games. What you're talking about is 13 year olds behaving in a way you'd expect 13 year olds to act. The average gamer is in their 30s now, I'd like to think we're a little more mature than that, and the numbers seem to have my side on that.
Yeah, but besides that, what has anyone got against them?Andy Shandy said:
Anyways, whilst their business practices aren't exactly water tight, I still think Activision is likely to take their place.
That being said, are EA even considered the top dogs anymore?
So you think that EA will die out of some sick, illogical want to see them die? Just...because?Matthew Jabour said:
That's even worse than having a personal reason for hating EA. And the fact that you champion Ubisoft without giving much reason other than "people like them better than EA" is laughable. People like me better than EA, ergo, people should buy AzrealMaximillion's RPG Maker made RPG by the millions due to your logic.
Seriously, what with the recent 95% sales beating they took from PC gamers after the 2011 "Ubisoft year of DRM", the fact that Nintendo fans are pissed at Rayman Legends not coming out as a launch WiiU title, AND it also no longer being exclusive, the fact that ZombiU will be looked back upon as a passable but not needed title on the WiiU with mot much strength in the sales department, the fact that fans of Assassin's Creed are sick of annual Assassin's Creed...
I could go on but Ubisoft is not be any means replacing EA. The next Splinter Cell game isn't generating much buzz either and had a crappy first trailer.