When should bans not be acceptable?

[scully745]

Before I launch into this, this is not prompted by the mods on The Escapist or forum mods in general although feel free to discuss that if you wish. My question is mainly aimed at online games, more or less any game where it is possible to be banned. With my name out of the firing line:

This started earlier today when I managed to get myself banned from League of Legends for leaving matches/going AFK. Under normal circumstances it would be perfectly reasonable to ban someone who did this. However, as my computer had been crashing during games and other times simply hanging mid-game, meaning I would be booted for being AFK for extended periods. This is the second time they've pinned me for this, the first was for a day and now this for a week. Their excuse for this is that it is ruining people's games and still warrants a ban. This reasoning confuses me, to say the least. How could banning someone for leaving solve the problem when the cause of this problem is the computer crashing. Surely the point of a ban is to discourage the behaviour that caused the ban, and if so, how could banning someone for a problem that is out of their control help in any way?

I think bans should only be used when they will actually help solve the issue, and should be able to be disputed as it seems this case here is that they can't. They should not be managed by a computer system as it is not capable of reasoning or complicated thinking and has a set response to any problem.

EDIT: And yes, it is out of my control as I took my laptop to get checked for bugs or other issues and nothing came up. So either it's the game causing the problem or... I don't know...

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

By your reasoning, someone should not be fined/ticketed for having broken headlights or bald tires on their car. The fact is, even though you are not setting out to be disruptive, your technical problems are ruining the game for others. It's not exactly fair, but it still makes sense.

 

[otakon17]

I think it's stupid if you get banned over technical difficulties. A warning or something, like a cop telling you your tail light's busted and not immediately arresting you and stripping you of your license. Bans should only happen to douche bags that actively try to ruin other people experiences, those who cheat in multiplayer events. Send them a e-mail explaining the situation. I'm sure if you contact them the ban will be retracted. But you should definitely try to sort your computer out before playing again.

 

[scully745]

By your reasoning, someone should not be fined/ticketed for having broken headlights or bald tires on their car. The fact is, even though you are not setting out to be disruptive, your technical problems are ruining the game for others. It's not exactly fair, but it still makes sense.

Not really. It's an easy enough problem to spot for yourself and so if you miss them then you deserve your punishment. Using a larger scale example here, but it's like someone else attaching an EMP in a well hidden place on your car. It's still going to make someone, or several someones, have a bad day but it's hardly your fault.

 

[Blindrooster]

Ya know, other people leaving games has never bothered me...... I dont see where the complaint comes from. The only scenario where I think leaving a game should warrant a ban is if the opposing player/team is deleveling or something. I leave games if it's not a critical moment cause forget it, I'm freakin hungry.....

 

[Aris Khandr]

How could banning someone for leaving solve the problem when the cause of this problem is the computer crashing. Surely the point of a ban is to discourage the behaviour that caused the ban, and if so, how could banning someone for a problem that is out of their control help in any way?

That's rather simple: If you're banned, you won't crash during the game causing people to have wasted their time with an unfinished game. This isn't about punishing you, it's about making the play experience better for everyone else.

 

[scully745]

That's rather simple: If you're banned, you won't crash during the game causing people to have wasted their time with an unfinished game. This isn't about punishing you, it's about making the play experience better for everyone else.

I see your point, although my crashing dosn't end the game for them, just means they have to keep going one player down. In that case, they're just going to have to keep banning me until it becomes permanent, and even then they have nothing set in place to stop me making another account and keeping going with that. The least they could do is offer some way to resolve the problem rather than brickwalling and pretending it dosn't exist, I emailed them and got a pre-made message back saying that they won't revert my ban and that I need to wait until the ban is over until they'll do anything

 

[evilneko]

Because whether it is under your control or not, you're leaving your team in a very disadvantaged position. Being down one really hurts in LoL, a lot more than in say Counter Strike or something.

Do something to figure out the problem (they have forums, don't they? Ask for help) and fix it or just accept that LoL's not gonna work out for you.

 

[scully745]

Because whether it is under your control or not, you're leaving your team in a very disadvantaged position. Being down one really hurts in LoL, a lot more than in say Counter Strike or something.

Do something to figure out the problem and fix it or just accept that LoL's not gonna work out for you.

In a word, No. I'm nearly adamant that LoL IS the problem and so it is up to them to fix it, not me. I've sunk alot of time into this in the the few weeks that I've been playing and, going over error history, they only started when the new patch came in. Yeah, the one that took two days. I can accept that they're a bunch of lazy knob-jockeys, but at least they could stop stomping on my face long enough for me to get up and attempt to get away, all the suspending is doing is making me want to play more and make up for time lost during suspensions.

EDIT: I have asked for help, got brickwall'd no help from there, seems they either don't have the time or don't care.

 

[Falconsgyre]

I see your point, although my crashing dosn't end the game for them, just means they have to keep going one player down. In that case, they're just going to have to keep banning me until it becomes permanent, and even then they have nothing set in place to stop me making another account and keeping going with that. The least they could do is offer some way to resolve the problem rather than brickwalling and pretending it dosn't exist, I emailed them and got a pre-made message back saying that they won't revert my ban and that I need to wait until the ban is over until they'll do anything

I understand that it's not exactly fair to you, but they have to think about more than just one player. As other people have said, you dropping out of matches due to technical issues is going to hurt the experience for other players, and that's what the LoL team cares about. You're not the only player in the world, and the LoL team has a responsibility to everyone else as well.

You should probably file a bug report if you think that LoL itself is to blame for your troubles. The only way it's going to get fixed is if they get a lot of these from people with similar problems. If you're the only one with this problem, or if the technical problem has to do with your internet provider or your computer, they don't have a responsibility to fix this (and doing so might actually be an irresponsible use of time, as they could use it to fix issues for everyone instead).

 

[evilneko]

You've tried the forums? You almost certainly are not the only one who has problems crashing out of games.

 

[Chaos James]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, a lot of the bans are usually reviwed by Level 30 member accounts, who can weigh their judgement on the match and then the moderators go into that and see what the members think and make final judgement.

Anyways, I don't currently play LoL because I have bad luck and my computer can crash at random. Because of this, and not wanting to accidently drop out of any games and screw people over and/or screw up my own account, I simple stopped playing until I have a chance to fix the problem.

If the problem is with LoL itself and you are sure it's not you (ie, reinstalled, checked computer, ect) then make reports on these bugs and then maybe take a break from it for a few weeks (unless you don't mind being banned again).

 

[razer17]

Sounds like league of legends is run by a bunch of assholes. Who the hell bans somebody because they left a game.


By the way that is not a ban, that is a suspension.

Someone who wants a decent community. I would love it if they applied the same sort of thing to other online games. Halo Reach has a system that gives you a very short suspension if you repeatedly quit. The biggest problem is in small team or one on one games, where one person leaving ruins the game.

I really wish people would get suspended if they quit too many games of Fifa, because in that game like 30% of people quit when losing, and it disrupts the game, and achievements.

OT: Well, considering there is no way to check if you quit or the game crashes, anyone could claim that it's because of PC glitches, so that's one reason. Secondly, even if it is actually PC crashes, it doesn't matter whether your disruption is deliberate or not it's still a disruption, so they should treat you the same as anyone else.

 

[lord.jeff]

They

elf banned from League of Legends for leaving matches/going AFK. Under normal circumstances it would be perfectly reasonable to ban someone who did this. However, as my computer had been crashing during games and other times simply hanging mid-game

They cant till what the circumstances are so everyone gets the same punishment for the same crime no matter the reason.

 

[StBishop]

Before I launch into this, this is not prompted by the mods on The Escapist or forum mods in general although feel free to discuss that if you wish. My question is mainly aimed at online games, more or less any game where it is possible to be banned. With my name out of the firing line:

This started earlier today when I managed to get myself banned from League of Legends for leaving matches/going AFK. Under normal circumstances it would be perfectly reasonable to ban someone who did this. However, as my computer had been crashing during games and other times simply hanging mid-game, meaning I would be booted for being AFK for extended periods. This is the second time they've pinned me for this, the first was for a day and now this for a week. Their excuse for this is that it is ruining people's games and still warrants a ban. This reasoning confuses me, to say the least. How could banning someone for leaving solve the problem when the cause of this problem is the computer crashing. Surely the point of a ban is to discourage the behaviour that caused the ban, and if so, how could banning someone for a problem that is out of their control help in any way?

I think bans should only be used when they will actually help solve the issue, and should be able to be disputed as it seems this case here is that they can't. They should not be managed by a computer system as it is not capable of reasoning or complicated thinking and has a set response to any problem.

EDIT: And yes, it is out of my control as I took my laptop to get checked for bugs or other issues and nothing came up. So either it's the game causing the problem or... I don't know...

That sounds like a suspension to me.

 

[StBishop]

By your reasoning, someone should not be fined/ticketed for having broken headlights or bald tires on their car. The fact is, even though you are not setting out to be disruptive, your technical problems are ruining the game for others. It's not exactly fair, but it still makes sense.

Not really. It's an easy enough problem to spot for yourself and so if you miss them then you deserve your punishment. Using a larger scale example here, but it's like someone else attaching an EMP in a well hidden place on your car. It's still going to make someone, or several someones, have a bad day but it's hardly your fault.

Ok how about this. You have tourette's syndrome, your tic is verbal and it causes you to yell: "DIRTY WHORE **** FLAP I'LL RAPE YOU WITH A FUCKING RUSTY BLADE!!" and you know of it. Sure you can't help it, but you realise that in some situations that it would be inappropriate.

Lets say you go to children's movies regularly, maybe this isn't a good idea. Perhaps you should watch those movies at home, because your actions (although involuntary) are likely to ruin someone's day.

Obviously as this is a medical condition it's very different to dropping from a game, you can still do everything else on the computer without having problems where as tourette's affects your whole life. It's not a great example.

What I'm getting at is, you're aware of the problem and have obviously continued to join games enough times to get your account suspended more than once. Have you considered that you have (potentially) literally ruined the entire game for everyone else playing?

What if someone only gets to play one game a day, you drop at level 4 and now he's go to solo a lane against a higher level hero, he gets killed twice and now he can't play cometetively and the only game he plays all day is fucked.

Thanks to you.

You are choosing to put yourself in a situation where you're likely to break the rules (don't leave) even if it's an accident.

This is still your fault.

Also, dude, the system can't tell why you left, and they can't believe every Tom, Dick, and Harry leaver who says "But my connection failed... a lot of times!"

EDIT:

Quoting you so you can see the that your attention is drawn to the impact of leavers.

-snip-

EDIT:

Because whether it is under your control or not, you're leaving your team in a very disadvantaged position. Being down one really hurts in LoL, a lot more than in say Counter Strike or something.

Do something to figure out the problem and fix it or just accept that LoL's not gonna work out for you.

In a word, No. I'm nearly adamant that LoL IS the problem and so it is up to them to fix it, not me. I've sunk alot of time into this in the the few weeks that I've been playing and, going over error history, they only started when the new patch came in. Yeah, the one that took two days. I can accept that they're a bunch of lazy knob-jockeys, but at least they could stop stomping on my face long enough for me to get up and attempt to get away, all the suspending is doing is making me want to play more and make up for time lost during suspensions.

EDIT: I have asked for help, got brickwall'd no help from there, seems they either don't have the time or don't care.

It's not their problem if one guy is having a problem. If it is a common problem I'm sure they'll patch it.

If it's not common, it's not their fault your shit isn't compatible. That's not how the world works any more.

 

[Jodah]

Your first time I wouldn't have banned you assuming that was the first time it happened (and I knew that) OR the game is what is causing it. If you had been having problems with your computer freezing and just didn't fix it its your own fault. Since I can't know why you left and whether its the first time your computer froze or not I would go through with the ban.

Basically you are expected to have a working machine if you want to play. Everyone else in the game gets their game ruined because you can't keep your computer running smoothly.

 

[scully745]

It's not their problem if one guy is having a problem. If it is a common problem I'm sure they'll patch it.

If it's not common, it's not their fault your shit isn't compatible. That's not how the world works any more.

By the sound of things on the forums, it's more than just me since the patch came in. The one that broke everything for two days. I don't know if this is what always happens on patch day, but you'd think they'd test the patch themselves to see how badly it'd fuck people over. As for not having a working machine, it works perfectly with any other game, Crysis, whatever, pull out a title and I'll run it through and see if it works. It should be Riot's responsibility to make sure their game is compatible with the average computer, and if not, don't squash people who're affected by their incompetence.

 

[Worgen]

I think it's stupid if you get banned over technical difficulties. A warning or something, like a cop telling you your tail light's busted and not immediately arresting you and stripping you of your license. Bans should only happen to douche bags that actively try to ruin other people experiences, those who cheat in multiplayer events. Send them a e-mail explaining the situation. I'm sure if you contact them the ban will be retracted. But you should definitely try to sort your computer out before playing again.

the thing is we dont know if he was lying or not, Ive had more then a few games ruined by leavers or afkers and no one likes that, unless he said net troubles he will likely get reported, and even then he might still get reported since people might think hes lying

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

LoL is actually a poorly made game. I recently installed it to give it a try and I had the exact same problems. It randomly hangs on joining games, I've seen lots of people get dropped on the way into a game, myself included. My advice: find another game... Any developer that has a flaw likes this and bans victims rather than looking for a solution isn't worth the time and optional money.