well no ive never had or seen a civilised political/religious conversation ever.
I really try to avoid those types of convos for that reason.
I really try to avoid those types of convos for that reason.
When was the last time you had a civilized political/religious discussion?
- Thread starter Mysterious Stranger
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I had one this morning with one of my teachers. My classics teacher regularly debates important issues like religion and politics with our classes which is fantastic. In my opinion it is more important to discuss such things than it is to learn arbitrary facts.
Hmmm, I can't remember EVER having a civilised conversation about religion, I'm constantly surrounded by Christians who try and force it on me.
However, I had a discussion about politics with a friend of mine a few weeks ago, discussing the pros and cons of communism.
However, I had a discussion about politics with a friend of mine a few weeks ago, discussing the pros and cons of communism.
There is no such thing.
In the modern world, there is only "My Opinion" and "Your opinion" and the two will never change or come to any sort of agreement.
You either are religious or you arent.
You are either right wing or left wing.
In between there is a big giant line in the sand just waiting for someone to cross it.
After that, it's less of a discussion and more of a war.
In the modern world, there is only "My Opinion" and "Your opinion" and the two will never change or come to any sort of agreement.
You either are religious or you arent.
You are either right wing or left wing.
In between there is a big giant line in the sand just waiting for someone to cross it.
After that, it's less of a discussion and more of a war.
About a three months ago.
I'm a hardcore, devout Christian, my brother's a hardcore, devout, close minded Atheist, and NO I'm not calling Atheist close minded. Just my brother. Due to the fact that he is one of the most closed minded people I know outside of my Father. Who is a (and I cringe saying this) Christian. Believe me the man's enough to make Jesus Christ an Atheist.
Anyways My brother, and I can have an intelligent, calm, and passionate debate; without getting in each others faces 99.9% of the time. Mind you we do get anywhere from a tiny bit to extremely smug with each other, So it's basically two men playing verbal Fistycuffs (Queensbury rules.) The fact that we keep our cool in some debates is amazing.
p.s. Just so you know. I can't stand my brother; He's an asshole. He not only admits that fact, but he takes pride in it, but I love him anyways.
p.s.s. He's the currently the only person I get smug with. I used to get smug with my father, but the old man's starting to go soft in the head, and you can't get smug with someone who's losing it.
I'm a hardcore, devout Christian, my brother's a hardcore, devout, close minded Atheist, and NO I'm not calling Atheist close minded. Just my brother. Due to the fact that he is one of the most closed minded people I know outside of my Father. Who is a (and I cringe saying this) Christian. Believe me the man's enough to make Jesus Christ an Atheist.
Anyways My brother, and I can have an intelligent, calm, and passionate debate; without getting in each others faces 99.9% of the time. Mind you we do get anywhere from a tiny bit to extremely smug with each other, So it's basically two men playing verbal Fistycuffs (Queensbury rules.) The fact that we keep our cool in some debates is amazing.
p.s. Just so you know. I can't stand my brother; He's an asshole. He not only admits that fact, but he takes pride in it, but I love him anyways.
p.s.s. He's the currently the only person I get smug with. I used to get smug with my father, but the old man's starting to go soft in the head, and you can't get smug with someone who's losing it.
I can have civilized debates all the time in real life. When I choose to talk about it on the internet it turns to shit pretty quick. Mainly because the people I talk to in real life are not as ignorant as the random anonymous assholes on the internet. Even on this site, which is better then most, but it's just not fun.
Mine too was pretty recently. It seems that if you actually find someone who is devout in their beliefs but not zealous you can have a very intelligent conversation about why they believe what they do and why you believe what you do. The Important thing is to actually ensure you are giving them a fair chance to talk and retaliate as well as making sure you don't give out any attacks on them or their beliefs.
People resond well to challange, not to insult.
People resond well to challange, not to insult.
Yup, just the other day on this site actually. I always seem to get drawn into discussions on here, I'm not sure why, I just do. It's nice to be able to discuss things intelligently over the internet with people I've never met, hence why I love this site.
Apart from that, at uni my friends and I often sit and read the paper between classes, so we occasionally will talk about news items then. Those discussions are always civil, and fun as well.
Apart from that, at uni my friends and I often sit and read the paper between classes, so we occasionally will talk about news items then. Those discussions are always civil, and fun as well.
Not for a looong time. Seriously, someone should write a book (or forum thread?) on how to do it, because it seems to have become a lost art. Heck, I bet a whole bunch of us have had civilized discussions before and didn't even recognize them as such, they occur so rarely. I blame the bad example set by politicians. Those guys should be the masters of thoughtful debate, yet at times their sessions turn into insult wars so immature even the internet looks down on them.
Quite a few times at one or two other sites, which are heavily moderated and the rules are enforced properly. Look at Cracked.com and the forum section "we saved Hilters brain". Read the rules there and you will see why things there rarely get out of hand.
Never actually here though. There are just too many vocal anti-theists who delight in being as assholish as possible towards people who disagree with their world view (look at two posters in this thread for example). The problem is they don't quite recognize that they are dealing with an issue which often defines a persons identity and culture, thus it is highly personal when a Christian (for example) is called up the wall for being "unreasonable", "backward", "stupid", "evil" etc just for holding beliefs that don't sit well with their own.
While religious bigots seem to hold sway in certain areas (red US states for instance) the internet is definitely the realm of the anti-theist bigot.
Never actually here though. There are just too many vocal anti-theists who delight in being as assholish as possible towards people who disagree with their world view (look at two posters in this thread for example). The problem is they don't quite recognize that they are dealing with an issue which often defines a persons identity and culture, thus it is highly personal when a Christian (for example) is called up the wall for being "unreasonable", "backward", "stupid", "evil" etc just for holding beliefs that don't sit well with their own.
While religious bigots seem to hold sway in certain areas (red US states for instance) the internet is definitely the realm of the anti-theist bigot.
Wicca is a pretty new form of spirituality which is still trying to find its way. A great many Wiccans don't really get their own religion quite yet.FanofDeath said:
I'll tell you something; you're one of the most hated stereotypes on the internet. I should know, I used to be that. But then I turned 14, and grew out of it. You deserve less respect than any religion, because you intend to be a disrespectful jerk.Heresy101 said:
You sound exactly like any fundamentalist Christian: "I tolerate religion every single day, that doesn't mean I automatically have to respect it, and it doesn't mean it is above criticism. My opinion may be an "attack" from their point of view, but it's a defense from mine. Suddenly I'm "strident" because I'm making a valid criticism of their beliefs, when in any other realm of discourse it wouldn't be seen that way at all." ANY fundamentalist Christian. Just flip the faith around.
People DON'T want their beliefs attacked for NO REASON. If they choose not to take part because of offence, then you have no right to try and push it on them. Take the fucking hint.
Oh, and I'm atheist, I just think you're an idiot.
I think any debate on religion invariably brings up the scientific method, and the exact nature of what a hypothesis/theory/principle/law/fact is. Sadly, many people distort and mutilate the scientific method. I have seen idiots on this very forum say, "A theory does not become a law. A law describes what happens, a theory describes how it happens."Mysterious Stranger said:
I had to point out that Maxwell's Laws of Electromagnetism were once theories. So yes, Theories CAN become laws over time.
First you observe. Then you form a hypothesis based on that observation. Test your hypothesis, and find significant corroborating evidence. It then becomes a theory. When you find so much corroborating evidence that the vast majority of the scientific community in the field in question agrees with your theory, it becomes a principle/law/fact, based on the precise nature of the evidence and the precise nature of the theory.
I can't begin to tell you how many people I have met who have some downright wierd concepts of how the scientific method actually works. I have met people who say that laws are just a small part of how theories interact...when the reality is that laws are processes that the scientific community considers fact, and theories are actually just proposals with a significant amount of evidence. And I don't care what Qualia says, a theory is NOT the highest state a hypothesis can ultimately achieve in Science.
Sadly, the utter futility of Religious debates largely stems from an almost total ignorance of the scientific method.
Please... leave the bigots alone. No good will come of giving them an excuse to post even more offensive hate speeches.Angerwing said:
Religion and science have nothing to do with each other. If you are looking for a way to explain worldly phenomena and make useful predictions then you turn to science. If you are looking for spiritual and/or moral direction then science has nothing to say about that. They are two completely different things.RelexCryo said:
i don't know, but last year i was in a class with a kid who would get into screaming arguments with other kids. The fist thing he did that year was walk around and ask of if we were pro choice, or life. It was probably a while ago i did, but I definently did so dont worry bout it