When will game developers realize there are female players too?

[jamesworkshop]

Ok people stop confusing the issue

1. stop saying their are no females lead characters because a ton of them are

2. games marketed to females does not mean female MC = female primary audience, because nearly all female MC are marketed to male audiences

3. female game designers do not always make female MC, Jade richmond certainly didn't make Altair or Ezio female

4. Females are almost never helpless princess sure you have Peach or Zelda but
Sonya Blade
Lara Croft
Chun- Li
Mileena
Nina Williams
Christie Allen
Bayonetta
Setsuka
Angel (King of Fighters)
Crimson Viper (Street Fighter)
Joanna Dark
Samus
Kitana (Mortal Kombat)
Blue Mary (King of Fighters)
Helena (Dead or Alive)
Baiken (Guilty Gear)
Sophitia Alexandra
Cammy White
Nina & Anna Williams
Tina Armstrong
Taki
Isabella "Ivy" Valentine
Ada Wong
Claire Redfield
Meryl Silverburgh
Jill Valentine
Lightning
Sarah Kerrigan
Cate Archer
Mona Sax
Sonia Belmont
Rayne
Elizabeth Greene (Prototype)
Kasumi
Nariko ? Heavenly Sword
Julia Chang ? Tekken
Asuka Kazama ? Tekken
Seong Mi-na ? Soul Caliber
Lady ? Devil May Cry

Hell almost every single one comes from games based around beating the crap out of people with your fists, their isn't a human alive that would last 5 seconds one on one with any of them.



Say what you actually mean, saying that female MC don't exist and then turning around and saying they are not compelling to female audiences as a rebuttal because that has nothing to do with the number of female MC's nor does having a female MC even suggest that the character was ever intended to appeal to women.

Games having female MC and games that are marketed to a female demographic is two entirely different things.
Women at least the hetrosexual ones respond to and create idealised male fantasy figures just as much as the opposite does for men

For a game to appeal to female audience does not rest on the genders of any of the characters
asking for female MC's is not going to guaranty you a product that will appeal to you as a female stop asking for more female characters when what you really want is an experience more crafted to females wants, expectation or interests because none of that is created by simply having a female MC since it certainly hasn't happen so far despite the ridiculous number of female MC's there are and their massive success being maintained by primarally male gamers.

Also note that pink things like Barbie horse adventures is not being targeted at a 20 to 35 adult female demographic audience but to girls under 12, when you have a job and possibly some crows feet you are no longer a little girl.

 

[Red Albatross]

It's all aboot marketing. Marketers influence publishers who control developers.
1: Marketers see that the majority of gamers are male.
2: Marketers send it through the grapevine that this is the segment of the population to market to.
3: Games get made that don't appeal to female gamers thus preventing more women from becoming gamers.
4: Go back to 1.

This is an admirably succinct and accurate summary of the problem in the gaming industry right now. Game developers are fully aware that females play video games. Games they make need mass-market appeal, or they don't get funding from publishers. Unfortunately, the mass market for games is still the 18-35 year old male, so that's the bullseye they've been trying to hit. They also apparently seem to think we're all stupid and can't tell a good game from Generic Space Marine Shooter Eleventy Zillion and One, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Eri]

don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.

This is a ridiculous way of thinking. You want more females in games but youre being sexist yourself and refusing to purchase games with male leads? I can certainly saying playing Yuna in FFX2 didn't stop me from buying or playing the game. Also, in a twist of irony, youre re-enforcing that game dev's are catering to the correct audience, because you weren't willing to give them any of your money, so why should they cater to you?

 

[Azure Sky]

Ok people stop confusing the issue

1. stop saying their are no females lead characters because a ton of them are

2. games marketed to females does not mean female MC = female primary audience, because nearly all female MC are marketed to male audiences

3. female game designers do not always make female MC, Jade richmond certainly didn't make Altair or Ezio female

4. Females are almost never helpless princess sure you have Peach or Zelda but

Spoiler: Sniplist

Sonya Blade
Lara Croft
Chun- Li
Mileena
Nina Williams
Christie Allen
Bayonetta
Setsuka
Angel (King of Fighters)
Crimson Viper (Street Fighter)
Joanna Dark
Samus
Kitana (Mortal Kombat)
Blue Mary (King of Fighters)
Helena (Dead or Alive)
Baiken (Guilty Gear)
Sophitia Alexandra
Cammy White
Nina & Anna Williams
Tina Armstrong
Taki
Isabella "Ivy" Valentine
Ada Wong
Claire Redfield
Meryl Silverburgh
Jill Valentine
Lightning
Sarah Kerrigan
Cate Archer
Mona Sax
Sonia Belmont
Rayne
Elizabeth Greene (Prototype)
Kasumi
Nariko ? Heavenly Sword
Julia Chang ? Tekken
Asuka Kazama ? Tekken
Seong Mi-na ? Soul Caliber
Lady ? Devil May Cry

Hell almost every single one comes from games based around beating the crap out of people with your fists, their isn't a human alive that would last 5 seconds one on one with any of them.



Say what you actually mean, saying that female MC don't exist and then turning around and saying they are not compelling to female audiences as a rebuttal because that has nothing to do with the number of female MC's nor does having a female MC even suggest that the character was ever intended to appeal to women.

Games having female MC and games that are marketed to a female demographic is two entirely different things.
Women at least the hetrosexual ones respond to and create idealised male fantasy figures just as much as the opposite does for men

For a game to appeal to female audience does not rest on the genders of any of the characters
asking for female MC's is not going to guaranty you a product that will appeal to you as a female stop asking for more female characters when what you really want is an experience more crafted to females wants, expectation or interests because none of that is created by simply having a female MC since it certainly hasn't happen so far despite the ridiculous number of female MC's there are and their massive success being maintained by primarally male gamers.

Also note that pink things like Barbie horse adventures is not being targeted at a 20 to 35 adult female demographic audience but to girls under 12, when you have a job and possibly some crows feet you are no longer a little girl.

You can remove Zelda from that helpless princess list btw, she does more then her share of ass-kickage when she isn't caught as well as when she isn't blackmailed (Twilight Princess)
She is also normally one of the most powerful people in her games, both politically and magically.

 

[DaggerOfCompassion]

When they do
/thread

 

[uppitycracker]

It's probably been mentioned already, but there's also that whole deal about creating a character for the story, and it fitting with what they envision.... Perhaps a female character doesn't work with the chosen story they've laid out. I honestly think it's retarded that anyone would base their purchase of a game on whether they can play a specific sex or not. yer missing out because of a senseless stubborn decision. But hey, that's yer loss, not mine I suppose.

 

[LWS666]

i only play games as a woman or male of another species if available (see: oblivion)

because if i'm playing a game i don't want to stare at a mans arse for the next dozen hours (and if it's a good game, we could be talking hundreds of hours of staring at that arse) but not being able to shouldn't make you not play it. if in oblivion i oculd only play as a woman i wouldn't care, and neither do lots of modders looking at the top 25 mods (eyecandy, pretty woman, sexy elves etc).

 

[tjcross]

you know the "switch it around" thing doesn't work since a lot of guys play female characters if they have the chance and to me the gender doesn't really bug me but the reason why most video games have male protagonists is because video games are mostly played by men sure the number of gamer girls has risen and besides if you can't get past the gender of the character you're playing you're going to miss out on a bunch of great games the zelda series and besides some people just don't know how to write a realistic female character without her being a slut, damsel or trying to be a man plus if you mess up on creating a female character than you are labeled sexist however if you screw up with a male character almost no one gives a shit.

Developers know that their are female gamers.

they simply don't give a hoot which gender their top gamers are, and they shouldn't have to.

As long as the game is good, and it sells well, that's all developers should have to worry about.

This.

Pisses me off when the Nazi-feminist movement tries to stifle creativity. Passing on a game because of the gender of the MC is BULLSHIT!!!

agreed

 

[Therumancer]

Maybe females don' make up a majority of players but they are out there. Every no sale of a game relects on the bottom line and I am a no sale on most current games.

Why don't they realize that most women don't want to play as male characters? I mean just switch it around, how many male players would enjoy games if most of the ones available had women as the main character?

Why is it a problem for them to develop games where gender option is allowed?

I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.

Usually these characters have a romantic interest. Of course the romantic interest is female.
C'mon, maybe some female players can go for this but not this player.

Maybe someone here can help me understand why gender option on MOST games, is not allowed.

Maybe females don' make up a majority of players but they are out there. Every no sale of a game relects on the bottom line and I am a no sale on most current games.

Why don't they realize that most women don't want to play as male characters? I mean just switch it around, how many male players would enjoy games if most of the ones available had women as the main character?

Why is it a problem for them to develop games where gender option is allowed?

I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.

Usually these characters have a romantic interest. Of course the romantic interest is female.
C'mon, maybe some female players can go for this but not this player.

Maybe someone here can help me understand why gender option on MOST games, is not allowed.

I think some of your respondees are missing your point as they are hammering out games with female leads or the option to play as a girl, since you never claimed they didn't exist. I do however think they are far more common than you are giving credit to. Despite what some of the respondees think, I believe based on some of the statistics quoted here and there that female gamers are fairly common, and make up like 40% of the game playing public, as opposed to being a tiny minority. However at the same time this does show that the current marketing has widespread approval among both genders.

As far as why there isn't a gender option for all games, the answer to that is fairly simple: designing games is similar to writing a book. The more 'storytelling' involved in the game (and it's increasingly demanded) the less flexible you can be with the protaganist, especially of part of the point of the game is to get into the character's head. To use something like "Alan Wake" for an example, a quick gender switch wouldn't have worked with that. Making it "Alice Wake" trying to rescue her lost husband would have involved substantial alteration to key parts of the game to allow for what would have been a distinctly differant perspective. Similar arguements can also be made for other psychological horror games like "Silent Hill" which in many cases include metaphors for children's fears of growing up and developing sexuality and so on, which are also present in girls, but would have involved entirely differant monster imagery and plot development. That said they *DID* have a female protaganist in "Silent Hill 3".

The above point can also be argued in reverse where for example "Tomb Raider" or "Dreamfall" or numerous other games with female protaganists would have required a massive amount of re-write to allow for a male character.


It's also noteworthy that for all claims of "womens liberation" certain aspects of society remain extremely sexist. Organized crime is one of those areas. While there are some isolated examples of female gangsters and such IRL, not to mention various crime movies, a game trying to keep to some pretensions of realism is going to feature a male character largely because organized crime is one of those areas. The Mafia, Triad, Yakuza, etc... all male dominated worlds. The few women in power in such organizations got there through some arrangement of politics or succession, the story of some low-end hood rising from a botched drug exchange tobecome the defacto leader of all crime in a city is going to cause some "suspension of disbelief" issues above and beyond the fantasy aspects involved for those who have read about such organizations via the busts and crackdowns we've seen through the years and are familiar with things like "The Sopranos" which drew upon this knowlege.... even so though, even here you DO see a few totally over the top games like "Saint's Row 2" which do indeed allow you to play as a girl, however at the same time that game is going more for "unbridled insanity" rather than even a remote pretension of realism... I mean your doing things like using military assault choppers to protect drug dealers making deliveries (I kid you not).

At any rate, if you look at generes like "Hidden Object" games and "adventure" games you'll notice a lot of games involving women which are heavily story driven. I suspect in part because these are the generes women are mostly drawn to for gaming (and no, I don't think this is because this is all that is produced for them). In cases where people argue that women are being forgotten because with some (mentioned in this thread) exceptions men are better represented in gaming, all you need to do is point towards the other section of a store's game shelf with the $20 "casual" titles and such to see it's not strictly speaking true.

As far as better representation of women in storytelling for serious video games? I don't think women are exactly under-represented, but I figure the only thing that is going to change things is to see more women go into game development and writing. There are women in the industry, but I can't think I've even heard of some rich lady deciding she was going to become a game producer and start financing developers to make the kinds of games she would like to see on the market.

Much like when certain minorities claim they are under represented in comic books and such, you'll also notice that there are few people of those minorities who decide to even try to become comic writers or artists to break into the industry. Right now for example most of the people who do comics are white or asian, manga and western comics have also been increasingly inspiritng each other. As a result the majority of characters in the "sequential art" storytelling medium are white or asian.

 

[DominicxD]

Maybe females don' make up a majority of players but they are out there. Every no sale of a game relects on the bottom line and I am a no sale on most current games.

Why don't they realize that most women don't want to play as male characters? I mean just switch it around, how many male players would enjoy games if most of the ones available had women as the main character?

Why is it a problem for them to develop games where gender option is allowed?

I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.

Usually these characters have a romantic interest. Of course the romantic interest is female.
C'mon, maybe some female players can go for this but not this player.

Maybe someone here can help me understand why gender option on MOST games, is not allowed.

Shut up, enjoy the game and stop looking for attention.

 

[jamesworkshop]

Ok people stop confusing the issue

1. stop saying their are no females lead characters because a ton of them are

2. games marketed to females does not mean female MC = female primary audience, because nearly all female MC are marketed to male audiences

3. female game designers do not always make female MC, Jade richmond certainly didn't make Altair or Ezio female

4. Females are almost never helpless princess sure you have Peach or Zelda but

Spoiler: Sniplist

Sonya Blade
Lara Croft
Chun- Li
Mileena
Nina Williams
Christie Allen
Bayonetta
Setsuka
Angel (King of Fighters)
Crimson Viper (Street Fighter)
Joanna Dark
Samus
Kitana (Mortal Kombat)
Blue Mary (King of Fighters)
Helena (Dead or Alive)
Baiken (Guilty Gear)
Sophitia Alexandra
Cammy White
Nina & Anna Williams
Tina Armstrong
Taki
Isabella "Ivy" Valentine
Ada Wong
Claire Redfield
Meryl Silverburgh
Jill Valentine
Lightning
Sarah Kerrigan
Cate Archer
Mona Sax
Sonia Belmont
Rayne
Elizabeth Greene (Prototype)
Kasumi
Nariko ? Heavenly Sword
Julia Chang ? Tekken
Asuka Kazama ? Tekken
Seong Mi-na ? Soul Caliber
Lady ? Devil May Cry

Hell almost every single one comes from games based around beating the crap out of people with your fists, their isn't a human alive that would last 5 seconds one on one with any of them.



Say what you actually mean, saying that female MC don't exist and then turning around and saying they are not compelling to female audiences as a rebuttal because that has nothing to do with the number of female MC's nor does having a female MC even suggest that the character was ever intended to appeal to women.

Games having female MC and games that are marketed to a female demographic is two entirely different things.
Women at least the hetrosexual ones respond to and create idealised male fantasy figures just as much as the opposite does for men

For a game to appeal to female audience does not rest on the genders of any of the characters
asking for female MC's is not going to guaranty you a product that will appeal to you as a female stop asking for more female characters when what you really want is an experience more crafted to females wants, expectation or interests because none of that is created by simply having a female MC since it certainly hasn't happen so far despite the ridiculous number of female MC's there are and their massive success being maintained by primarally male gamers.

Also note that pink things like Barbie horse adventures is not being targeted at a 20 to 35 adult female demographic audience but to girls under 12, when you have a job and possibly some crows feet you are no longer a little girl.

You can remove Zelda from that helpless princess list btw, she does more then her share of ass-kickage when she isn't caught as well as when she isn't blackmailed (Twilight Princess)
She is also normally one of the most powerful people in her games, both politically and magically.

Actually both serve a point as both exist as resecure or combatant either in smash bros or super princess peach it fits in quite well that even the hated for being helpless character are a fallacy in that reguards

 

[warrcry13]

Ridiculously close minded of you in my opinion I am a guy I look at the game as if I'm reading the book, and therefore I can role play any character. I don't have to have a character that is my own gender to like.

The one whom is close minded here is you.[/quote]

Wait how? I was just saying that it doesn't matter to me as long as it is a fun game or had an awesome story. How is that having a closed mind? Sure there isn't much, but I would never complain about it.

 

[DarkHuntress]

I don't understand why gender choice can not be left up to the player. JUST give the player a choice.

These are GAMES by the way, not reality. So you could just as easily have a female character in Red Redemption as easily as you have a male.

There are female combat officers, firemen, soldiers, fighter pilots, police, assassins, spies even leaders of countries and that's in the REAL world! Why not in the game world????

Just give a choice to play male or female.

 

[The Night Shade]

Very close-minded they are a lot of games with female characters

 

[Shycte]

1. What makes a male lead better? How many games have you actually played that contained a female lead, and how many of those games did you like?

2. No, I have not.

1) Because I can relate too such a character better, just like maybe 85 % of the other male gamers. Mirror's Edge was quite good, but WET was horrible no matter how you look at it. There are more of you want to hear them

But that would be missing the point. The point is, that it is up too the devs to judge what is best for their games. Because trust me, they can do that better them both you can me. And is it really that strange to you that they try to make money?

2) If you had, you would have known that it wouldn't have worked.

1. I am working to become a game designer myself. I think I understand it therefore a bit better than you (See which card I pulled there out of my behind?).

As you said, you can relate to that character better while I can relate to a female character better.

2. Rule63 - Changing genders.
Meaning that the Prince would be a Princess and that Farah would be a Male instead of a Female. Meaning it would probably work still just as well.

1) You are saying it yourself. Now answer my question.

2) "There's always a female character of a male one. No exceptions." You are making things up if you're calming that it says that'll work. When people write stories gender often play a big role in it. Like Harry Potter being a boy. Him, being male, is quite a big part in the book and if he was a girl, it wouldn't be the same.

 

[Snotnarok]

There was a large article on why developers don't have female leads in with the male leads, it mostly has to do with a lot of work and a lot of money. It was in Game Informer

Men and women walk differently and move differently so you need 2 different sets of motion capture, then you need two different voice actors and then you need the other voice actors to do another take for saying what gender the character is. This doesn't even include modeling the character or possibly having different articles of clothing. This is all time and money that drops on the game.

Also there's a lot of games with female leads, there's less than games with men leading but that's not to say there isn't tons of female leads on the list.

Heavenly Sword, Metroid series, Valkyrie Profile series, Mass Effect series, Persona 3 Portable, Saints Row 2, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead Series, Final Fantasy XIII, Diablo series, Torchlight, Sacred series, Pokemon, Parasite Eve series, Resident Evil 1,2,3,5, Killer 7, Bayonetta. And these are only the games I have, I'm sure there's more that I'm just not listing.

 

[Revenge Revisited]

I'm a girl and I prefer male characters over female, though that may have something to do with female characters tend to be over-sexualized and not well writen. It could also be that I find men more atractive.

 

[jamesworkshop]

I don't understand why gender choice can not be left up to the player. JUST give the player a choice.

These are GAMES by the way, not reality. So you could just as easily have a female character in Red Redemption as easily as you have a male.

There are female combat officers, firemen, soldiers, fighter pilots, police, assassins, spies even leaders of countries and that's in the REAL world! Why not in the game world????

Just give a choice!

meryl silverburgh - commanding officer - metal gear solid

Tanya Pavelovna - Russian Sniper - Cod: Finest Hour

natasha volkova - soviet commando - C&C Red Alert 3

Darci Stern - Union City Police Officer - Urban Chaos

Rubi Malone (wet) or Violette Summer (velvet assassin) both basically assassins

Cate archer - female spy - The operative: No one lives for ever

http://www.futuregamez.net/ps3games/vanquish/vanquish4a.jpg
Female president from Vanquish

 

[JacenElectronica]

when the E3 stops been a sausage fest

 

[MasterV]

Seems to me many people in this thread are confusing female protagonists to actual characters a female player would want to play AS. There's quite a difference there actually, meaning that for instance , Bayonetta may be a female lead but she is nothing more than a pair of boobs and borderline nudity. Good female leads that actually add something to the game and not there only to appeal to testosterone-filled boys (which i suspect are 99.789% of the people posting in this thread) are VERY few and far between. Don't tell me about that gal from Portal because that's not a character fellas.

But DarkHutress, I think you're overreacting a bit. It's not feasible for EVERY single game to have a female lead instead of a male, even as an option. Development costs are highe enough as they are, and I very much doubt a female lead would react the same way as a male one to the same situation, not to mention the need for new animations and suhlike, which only leads to increased dev costs etc etc. RPGs may do, but that's their structure, it allows for such things.

Although it would be kinda fun playing something like, say, Prototype with a female lead. With a gravelly voice. Wonder who would actually play as her though.