When will game developers realize there are female players too?

[Continuity]

Maybe females don' make up a majority of players but they are out there. Every no sale of a game relects on the bottom line and I am a no sale on most current games.

Why don't they realize that most women don't want to play as male characters? I mean just switch it around, how many male players would enjoy games if most of the ones available had women as the main character?

Why is it a problem for them to develop games where gender option is allowed?

I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.

Usually these characters have a romantic interest. Of course the romantic interest is female.
C'mon, maybe some female players can go for this but not this player.

Maybe someone here can help me understand why gender option on MOST games, is not allowed.

I think you underestimate how many blokes play as female characters but basically the answer to your question is that if you want to create an a game with a defined player character who is integrated into the plot then unless you want to put a lot of effort into doubling up on dialogue and creating dual unique interactions you basically have to choose either female or male. I guess they figure most young male gamers (who are the majority of the market) want to play male leads.

 

[Femalegamer]

Why not?, game developers cater to teenage boys? Suppose clothing designers catered to males, would you have no problem wearing male clothing?

Your money is the same as a males money why not want the developers to cater to you??...

 

[Flying-Emu]

You do know that Samus was the one who actually broke the gender rules?
I mean, you do know that everyone refered to Samus as a HE until they got the Best ending, right?

Yeah

I do

How does this affect my argument at all? You make it seem like Metroid 1 was the only Metroid to have decent sales...

 

[squid5580]

Developers know that their are female gamers.

they simply don't give a hoot which gender their top gamers are, and they shouldn't have to.

As long as the game is good, and it sells well, that's all developers should have to worry about.

Developers know that their are female gamers.

they simply don't give a hoot which gender their top gamers are, and they shouldn't have to.

As long as the game is good, and it sells well, that's all developers should have to worry about.

This.

Pisses me off when the Nazi-feminist movement tries to stifle creativity. Passing on a game because of the gender of the MC is BULLSHIT!!!

I'm sorry, but you two are wrong.
There have been articles here on escapist about this specific subject, I suggest you go find them.

I am kinda the same with you on this.
If I see a game that I find interesting but read "You play as Testestorone Bomb Joe", then I won't buy it.

So you would have bought it if it was roid rage sue?

That's such a cop out answer. You probably wouldn't have bought the game anyway, and changing the feel of the game so it can support an actual feminine character would have changed the game so significantly that it wouldn't be the same game.

Isn't roidrage Sue in Gears of War 3?
Short answer; Of course I wouldn't unless the game somehow magically looked hilarious.

I point you to the clip I posted for Uber Waddles on Post #34, Page 1.

When we get to the point that there is no female MCs ever then we will be wrong. Until then they will never be able to please everyone. If you make a game that has a character creator it isn't good enough. If you make some games with female MCs it isn't good enough. So when is it good enough?

 

[Woodsey]

I take it you're being purposefully stupid on your last question just to suit your argument. Most games have fixed characters because most games will tell a specific story about that character (unlike RPGs)

I love it when someone calls someone stupid and then trips on their own argument.
Perhaps you should take one large look on RPGs.

Oh yeah, you're right: what a mistake I made in saying that RPGs are the genre most likely to allow you to carve your own story and character.

 

[Azure Sky]

Spoiler: In here, will be a picture that you want

Ganondorf as well? Now I really want them to make it.. =(

Though, the whole garudo thing with Ganondorf might be a little much.
Reversing the whole 'one male born every 100 years destined to be king' thing could be taken really badly. XD

While we are at it, Prince Ruto? Actually, that's kinda creepy..

Maybe make Saria and Mido swap places? =3

 

[countkillalot]

I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.

Usually these characters have a romantic interest. Of course the romantic interest is female.
C'mon, maybe some female players can go for this but not this player.

Quick open question.

Lets say I make a game with a relatable female charachter, and her motivation is a male romantic interest let's call him Jake.

What should Jake's charachter's role be in order for the scenario to feel relatable to a wide female audience?

It's probably not enough to switch Mario and Princess Peach to Maria and Prince Apricot.

In other words how do we do this right?

Name games, literature, movies, comic books fairy-tales that have done this right defore.

I agree that guys have been the focus of writers and designers as far as relatability goes and I don't think a simple "choose your chrachter's naughty bits" option is the answer.

Please, women of gaming, tell my writing staff what you want!

 

[Aisaku]

While we're on the topic, I'm reminded of this:

The ?Dykes to Watch Out For? test, formerly coined as the ?Mo Movie Measure? test and Bechdel Test, was named for the comic strip it came from, penned by Alison Bechdel ? but Bechdel credits a friend named Liz Wallace, so maybe it really should be called the Liz Wallace Test?? Anyway, the test is much simpler than the name. To pass it your movie must have the following:

1) there are at least two named female characters, who

2) talk to each other about

3) something other than a man.

So simple, and yet as you go through all your favorite movies (and most of your favorite TV shows, though there?s a little more variety in TV), you find very few movies pass this test.

It may sound a little extreme but it does resonate with the videogame industry too. When you have several female characters it's likely that most if not all of them act like they only exist for the main character's behalf. The rationale behind that is:

I asked why. Well, it would be more accurate to say I politely demanded a thorough, logical explanation that made sense for a change (I?d found the ?audience won?t watch women!? argument pretty questionable, with its ever-shifting reasons and parameters).

At first I got several tentative murmurings about how it distracted from the flow or point of the story. I went through this with more than one professor, more than one industry professional. Finally, I got one blessedly telling explanation from an industry pro: ?The audience doesn?t want to listen to a bunch of women talking about whatever it is women talk about.?

?Not even if it advances the story?? I asked. That?s rule number one in screenwriting, though you?d never know it from watching most movies: every moment in a script should reveal another chunk of the story and keep it moving.

He just looked embarrassed and said, ?I mean, that?s not how I see it, that?s how they see it.?

...

According to Hollywood, if two women came on screen and started talking, the target male audience?s brain would glaze over and assume the women were talking about nail polish or shoes or something that didn?t pertain to the story. Only if they heard the name of a man in the story would they tune back in. By having women talk to each other about something other than men, I was ?losing the audience.?

Original article:

http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-film-schools-teach-screenwriters-not-to-pass-the-bechdel-test/

 

[Safe in the Dark]

RUN FOR YOUR Y-CHROMOSOMES!!!

 

[Shycte]

I take it you're being purposefully stupid on your last question just to suit your argument. Most games have fixed characters because most games will tell a specific story about that character (unlike RPGs)

I love it when someone calls someone stupid and then trips on their own argument.
Perhaps you should take one large look on RPGs.

Imagine if Link were a girl and Zelda were the male?

I would so buy that game.

Now that I think about it, Zelda.
Strange, pantsless, green-wearing swordsman that cannot speak aside.
#1 What is the game named after.
#2 What is the main plot device.
#3 Who is generally the most the most intelligent as well as elegant character. (This may only apply to the later games, Ocarina and up)
#4 Who is is one of the most powerful people, both politically and magically. (Also, see #3)

Just food for thought. =3

Spoiler: In here, will be a picture that you want

Most RPGs however do actually give you the option of male or female, see mass effect, elder scrolls series, fallout, dragon age, etc. RPGs give you character customization other games that are trying to tell a most straightforward story with less character choices and possible more development require a set character. I know bioware allows for both male and female romances in some of their games. And when your playing as a male the romantic interest is female for a very good reason, the walking refigerator is not gay.

Ok, stop it right there.
How exactly is that a "very good reason"?
That's just an extreamly homophoebic reason (not targeted at you, targeted at developers) and you know it.

Sales is an extremely good reason. Honesly I admit you see very very few gay relationships outside of jrps because nobody knows if they are a cross dresser or male and dragon age which doesnt count. Still their arnt that many lesbian relationships either although considerably more.

We both know that the American culture is viewed as extremely homophoepic. All you have to do is look at that thread about gay marrige in cali? and you will see why game developers try to avoid things like that. I really dont care either way if they are in games or not. But with the way video games are viewed I think it would be bad to add anything that controversial.

In the end developers go with what will sell better, since they really are just in it for the money. RPGs let you choose your gender, other games will generally be static, and jrpgs will keep you guessing if your character is male or female.

It wouldn't be bad.
Samus wasn't bad, it was suprising.
You need to create something controversial in order to change the idea about it being controversial.

You do know that Samus was the one who actually broke the gender rules?
I mean, you do know that everyone refered to Samus as a HE until they got the Best ending, right?

Yeah

I do

How does this affect my argument at all? You make it seem like Metroid 1 was the only Metroid to have decent sales...

Because you made it seem like it was universally accepted that Samus were a female, yet back in that day and age, it was rather shocking and controversial. Imagine the screams if Master Chief from Halo would had been revealed by the end of the third game that it was infact, a Woman.

You oughta be trolling...

But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Okay, I know that you are entitled to your own opinion and all that. But seriously? Okay, first of all, that is not true, there are plenty of AAA titles with female protaganists.

And why it is a problem? Because it would fuck up the entire story. Look at Mafia för example. It would be like, no, there are no female taxidrivers. GAME OVER.

You oughta be trolling...

But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[http://img10.imageshack.us/i/ohwait.jpg/]

Totally agree with your points, but you see, feminists and vegetarians/vegans have this agenda. They cannot sleep well unless they know that they've fucked someone with a different belief over.

None of your arguments are withstanding.

Let me say this. You are not being discriminated in any way. I can without any problems play a game with a femele main charachter so I fail to see why you should have any problem with a male.

See, we live a democracy. That means devs are allowed to make their games like they want them. And if you write a story, let's say PoP: SoT, the plot demands that the prince is a man. Just like a book. Would Twilight work is Bella was a Bill?

Didn't think so.

 

[Gudrests]

I am kinda the same with you on this.
If I see a game that I find interesting but read "You play as Testestorone Bomb Joe", then I won't buy it.

Of course, one also buys games with a male protagonist because the game itself looks sweeet.
But I am all with you on this.

Here are a few things you can note as well when it comes to Male vs Female;
* In movies, if there are hot chicks in it, they never speak to each other. And if they do, they only talk about their men. Few movies break this habit.
* If there is a woman in a videogame, 7/10 times she'll be an damsel in distress. Even if the main character is a complete whimp, he will end up saving her at one time or another.

The argument about "It's mostly adolscent males who play games" is that of a broken one.

Here's a thought;
Imagine if Link were a girl and Zelda were the male?

all im sayin is...that hair....common..its close enough

 

[Shycte]

EDIT: Things got fucked up with the qoute. Better now.

You oughta be trolling...

But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Okay, I know that you are entitled to your own opinion and all that. But seriously? Okay, first of all, that is not true, there are plenty of AAA titles with female protaganists.

And why it is a problem? Because it would fuck up the entire story. Look at Mafia för example. It would be like, no, there are no female taxidrivers. GAME OVER.

You oughta be trolling...

But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[http://img10.imageshack.us/i/ohwait.jpg/]

Totally agree with your points, but you see, feminists and vegetarians/vegans have this agenda. They cannot sleep well unless they know that they've fucked someone with a different belief over.

None of your arguments are withstanding.[/quote]

Let me say this. You are not being discriminated in any way. I can without any problems play a game with a femele main charachter so I fail to see why you should have any problem with a male.

See, we live a democracy. That means devs are allowed to make their games like they want them. And if you write a story, let's say PoP: SoT, the plot demands that the prince is a man. Just like a book. Would Twilight work is Bella was a Bill?

Didn't think so.[/quote]

 

[Shycte]

You oughta be trolling...

But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Okay, I know that you are entitled to your own opinion and all that. But seriously? Okay, first of all, that is not true, there are plenty of AAA titles with female protaganists.

And why it is a problem? Because it would fuck up the entire story. Look at Mafia för example. It would be like, no, there are no female taxidrivers. GAME OVER.

You oughta be trolling...

But in case you are not.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[http://img10.imageshack.us/i/ohwait.jpg/]

Totally agree with your points, but you see, feminists and vegetarians/vegans have this agenda. They cannot sleep well unless they know that they've fucked someone with a different belief over.

None of your arguments are withstanding.

Imagine if it was a book we are talking about. Would Twilight work if Bella was a Bill?

Didn't think so.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Developers are not that stupid, they realize there are female players. On the other hand, the simple truth is that you are a vast minority of gamers. So in general the smart thing to do is target male gamers.

 

[Dora]

There are stories with male protagonists, and stories with female protagonists. Why? Iunno. Why was Harry Potter not Harrieta Potter? Why was Lara Croft not Larry Croft? Why was Indiana Jones not Girlsname Jones? The character was just written that way. It's not some big conspiracy, and, frankly, there are a LOT of games with female leads that have come out just within the past few years.

I still personally think not playing/purchasing a game because you can't play a character with nether regions identical to your own is silly. A hero should be a hero because of the qualities they possess, not because of their gender. Would it be nice to be able to play male or female for whatever game you wanted? Sure, I guess, but why does it matter? It's not oppressing you and you're not going to catch a case of The Dudes by playing. All you're doing by boycotting games that feature only male protagonists is depriving yourself of some genuinely good games, and I'd say the same thing to a guy that complained about Metroid, Bayonetta, Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, Fatal Frame, Silent Hill 3, etc etc etc.

The only games I really expect to be able to play my own gender are in games where you create your own character, like Oblivion or Fallout. If you want me to create a character, it's probably because you want me to be immersed in the game and feel like it's "my" story. Otherwise, gaming is for me, at best, an interactive storytelling experience, and as long as the story at hand is an interesting one, I could care less whether I'm wearing sensible trousers or a miniskirt.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I am kinda the same with you on this.
If I see a game that I find interesting but read "You play as Testestorone Bomb Joe", then I won't buy it.

Of course, one also buys games with a male protagonist because the game itself looks sweeet.
But I am all with you on this.

Here are a few things you can note as well when it comes to Male vs Female;
* In movies, if there are hot chicks in it, they never speak to each other. And if they do, they only talk about their men. Few movies break this habit.
* If there is a woman in a videogame, 7/10 times she'll be an damsel in distress. Even if the main character is a complete whimp, he will end up saving her at one time or another.

The argument about "It's mostly adolscent males who play games" is that of a broken one.

Here's a thought;
Imagine if Link were a girl and Zelda were the male?

Em they already made a Zelda game where Zelda had to save Link so that is not hard to imagine.

 

[ESCAPIST DELETE THIS ACCOUNT]

Men invented games. It's all we have, the only thing in our lives that the majority of women A) don't want to be a part of and B) won't take in the divorce settlement.

Hahaa its true and kinda sad.....

 

[IamQ]

You don't play games where you can only play a male? Wow, you can't have played many games. And of course you can't change your gender in every game. If that was the case, we'd almost only have RPG games. And some people might not want that.

 

[oktalist]

Every no sale of a game relects on the bottom line and I am a no sale on most current games.

I am a no sale on most current games too, because the characters (not to mention all the other aspects) in most current games are shallow, one-dimensional and stereotypical, regardless of their gender.

Why don't they realize that most women don't want to play as male characters?

I notice you speak on behalf of most women gamers. Have you asked them?

I mean just switch it around, how many male players would enjoy games if most of the ones available had women as the main character?

I enjoy playing as April Ryan, Zoe Castillo, Jade (BG&E), Kate Walker or Phoenix Wallis, because they are deep, multi-faceted characters with whom I can empathise, in spite of their not being my gender. And I enjoy playing as JC Denton or Raz because they are deep, multi-faceted characters with whom I can empathise, not because they are male. I do not enjoy playing as Lara Croft, because she is flat (see what I did there?), not because she is female.

I, for one, don't purchase games that only allow a male character. I can't even role play a character like this. It's just not fun.

Do you also not read books or watch films with male protagonists? I like to get the female perspective as well as the male, in my media, as it gives a more thorough, well-rounded insight into the world.

To answer your original question: Game developers will cater more to female gamers when more women go into the game development industry. That may sound like a cop-out thought up by a male developer too lazy to research the female perspective, but it's still a sad truth that there are too few women in the industry. And it's not as if game studios are particularly macho workplaces. And, unlike most industries, female game developers are actually paid more than their male counterparts, on average (although that might just be because they tend to be in the higher-paid positions).

 

[RandomWords]

There are more males in games because it takes to much time and money to have both, you have to make another character with whole new dialogue for the character. However some of my favorite games have female characters like Portal, Mass Effect, and Borderlands.