Where does freedom end and rights begin?

[CowardlyKnight]

Where does your freedom end, and other peoples' rights begin? We all live in a society where we give up some freedoms in exchange for rights. I keep the right to live because you lose the freedom to kill me. But as with a lot of things, the Internet muddies the water quiet a bit.

What comes to mind when I speak about this is internet slander/death-threats/harassment towards another person. Feel free to add other examples if you feel one is warranted.

Many people claim "freedom of speech" on the internet when they are being totally jerks and hateful. This can be in the form of of hateful youtube comments, internet bullying, and tweeting hateful remarks. It's easy to say that the victims of these remarks can just disconnect from where these hateful remarks come from, but don't they have a right to enjoy some of the same things other people enjoy without being threatened?

Personally, I would love to see more people be held accountable for their online actions. You post death threats, you go to court and possibly serve some time. You bully someone, you lose the right to use said service. But it's hard to say to implement laws without feeling like it's the start of something awful. Could it turn into a tool used to oppress free thinkers who speak out?

 

[Thaluikhain]

There's no hard and fast rule, unfortunately, the devil is in the details. There are exceptions to any generalisation.

As a general rule though, more or less anything that can be used can be abused. Every power you give to the state can be used by an oppressive regime. Every power you take away gives leeway to oppressive individuals.

Having said that, death threats are very much not ok.

 

[CowardlyKnight]

thaluikhain:

I agree that death threats are not ok, but neither should be bullying. Since I'm thinking about kids at this point in my life, this is kinda a close topic to my heart. I know you're not saying that it's ok to bully, but I'm gonna argue this point just to elaborate some more. Online bullying (and pretty much everything else) should be the easiest thing to catch and punish. This is also true for other form of inappropriate online behavior. Since it leaves whatever said up complete with a signature and time stamp. But it isn't punished, at least not what I'm aware of. I know we all hear about teens (which it sucks to be teen, since you're at a very awkward age) commit suicide due to bullying, and how online bullying makes it worse since they're attacked in the "safety" of them homes.

I guess the question I'm really trying to ask is "What would you like to see done?"

Do you think your freedom is more important than your rights?

Also, do you think its more likely that the state will abuse laws they make, or that people will continue to abuse the lack of laws?

And thank you for replying.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Online bullying (and pretty much everything else) should be the easiest thing to catch and punish.

Define "bullying" though. If I was to gather a few like minded people to follow your posts on, say, this forum, and after every one say you are completely wrong, and are a very stupid person with no understanding of the world, is that bullying? If so, what happens if someone is always wrong and has no understanding of the world?

I guess the question I'm really trying to ask is "What would you like to see done?"

A difficult question. Normally, I'd say something along the lines of trying to change social attitudes and educate people about the issues. While this is usually a good response to anything if it works, it's easier said than done, and tends to have serious problems in application.

Do you think your freedom is more important than your rights?

I'd generally say rights, but those are very vague and nebulous concepts, with a lot of overlap.

Generally I'd say "freedom from" is more important than "freedom to"...but that logic bans, say, gay marriage so that people don't have to live in a society where it is tolerated.

Also, do you think its more likely that the state will abuse laws they make, or that people will continue to abuse the lack of laws?

Personally, I'd say more that people will abuse the lack of laws.

However, the state does not oppress all people equally. I must recognise that I'm not in the most oppressed groups in my country, and this colours my thinking.

 

[CowardlyKnight]

Define "bullying" though. If I was to gather a few like minded people to follow your posts on, say, this forum, and after every one say you are completely wrong, and are a very stupid person with no understanding of the world, is that bullying? If so, what happens if someone is always wrong and has no understanding of the world?

Very true. Bullying isn't something that is easy to define and goes beyond the scope of what I wanted this thread to discuss. I guess that a judge or the authorities would need to decide, but you definitely get a point for showing the hole in my logic.

To the rest of your post: I agree that education is always important, but (like you said) I don't feel a lot of people are as receptive to it as would be needed to cut down on the problem. As an example: We all know drugs are bad (regardless of your thoughts on "less harmful" drugs such as pot, I'm speaking about the "more harmful" drugs like meth), but it's still something that is a major problem in many societies.

I find your "freedom from" thoughts interesting. Since I believe most people would think in terms of "freedom to". Freedom to buy an SUV I don't need, not freedom from pollution. You definitely gave me food for thought. Thank you for that, but now it has stopped raining and I have a BBQ to attend.

I hope others will keep posting in this thread, I find this very interesting.

 

[Esotera]

Laws for death threats on the internet are exactly the same as for not on the internet, they're just not enforced. Freedom is exactly the same on the internet, it's just a lot harder to police.

OT: you should be free to do whatever you want, as long as it isn't infringing on someone else's freedom.