Where loyalties end.

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

(Takes deep breath)
Alright, So in my first few days of highschool, I made a new friend. So we have a lot in common, and become good friends, until a topic arises in my head.

I sent a video on facebook about why gays/lesbians shouldn't be made fun of (I did this as a joke, seeing as we have diffirent oppenions on it, I believe it's nature, he thinks it's wrong)

So we have a little fight, nothing out of what usually happens to our disagreements. Until, a month after we settle it, he sends me this message

"Your thinking of God as more of a person. God is everything. The Bible isnt a book of Gods crap, its the story of god so we know how to live, and be good people. God created Adam and Eve and expected true love. Its ok for people to be gay, thats fine with me. But for them to excercise that and do stuff with other guys, isnt right. People dont need relationships, and a healthy relationship is one based on God, and helping eachother grow in love of Jesus Christ. Kevin Lackey is my friends best friend, why would you even make jokes about killing him,

P.S. my friend said kevin would Pwn your ass. I go to church, and i think i know more of the bible than you."
-Note that his best friend has never met me before- and this kid kevin does not know how to fight, nor has he ever.

But aside from his idiotic friends blind acusations, I told him simply that God tells us to love all, just as he does, and brought up the fact that God apperantly damns hearts.

Along with that I brought up that I have a few friends who are gay, and they haven't had things a walk in a field of dasies-

Alright, for you to understand this next part, you must read this first
This guy kevin is dating this girl I am in love with, the dumb part is, he began dating her again after he found out I liked her. So I'm mad at him, and I jokingly say to him on Xbox that someone needed to die for this guys impossible targeting skill on homefront, and said "Excuse me while I go kill kevin" he now apperantly hates me for saying that.

So I also called him out on never being in love, and the fact that he pushes a lot of things asside for his hopes to be in the military, and I respect that. It's what he wants.

So I basically ended saying that I was fine if he didn't want to be my friend, and I understood.


Shows you what I know about this world when one of my best friends turns on me like that. But I guess that's where our loyalty to eachother ends, so forum, what do you think of this,

and have you had an experance like this?

MISTER EDIT SEY-http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.302425-Undinable-happiness this is the "resolution" the girl I like, that caused the "I HATE YOU" part of the dispute was dumped by him, so nao I r really happy, and I can communicate with her!

 

[gabe12301]

I am usually on the "hateful" side for simply quoting the part of the bible that everyone likes to ignore. and It's not like i'm screaming "YOU SHALL BURN IN THE PITS OF HELL! YOU SHOULD SACRIFICE SOME LAMBS TO REPENT!!!!!" or anything like that. I just say it like it is nicely.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

I am usually on the "hateful" side for simply quoting the part of the bible that everyone likes to ignore. and It's not like i'm screaming "YOU SHALL BURN IN THE PITS OF HELL! YOU SHOULD SACRIFICE SOME LAMBS TO REPENT!!!!!" or anything like that. I just say it like it is nicely.

No I understand why people quote that. But I just don't understand why if their is an upper being, why did he put something one cannot control, and damn that being for it. It makes no sense.

 

[Bags159]

It makes no sense.

When has religion ever made sense? Anti-gay arguments based in religion are all insane, in my opinion.

 

[Phlakes]

...Wait, you're in high school?

Well there's your problem.

OT: I tried to stay out of that shit when I was younger. It did well for me.

 

[MrMixelPixel]

O_O.

I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. I want to though...

I guess I'll just be unorganized and talk about some thoughts or something.

First off, no I don't think I've ever really hard a major argument with a friend over anything really. I appear to have surrounded myself with pretty neat people. Then again, I've only actually had friends for about a year or two. Getting back to the homosexual thing... I don't like when people think being gay is a sin that makes you destined for hell. It's no more a sin than lying or stealing... according to the bible. I personally don't think it is a sin at all ^^.

Now then, I'm gonna watch that music video a few more times =D.

 

[Grospoliner]

I have run into people like this. They are pitiable. In their desperation to cling to their belief in a world which is rapidly leaving such ideas behind as barbaric and primitive, they lash out blindly at others with vehemence and contempt. All the while they fail to realize that their very actions contradict with the ideals their so called moral system attempt to promote. So badly they fail in their understanding of the world that they rationalize past the "Golden Rule" the most basic foundation of all moral systems, secular or religious, and cling to a misguided interpretation of a loose collection of writings a thousand years past. Writings which, while applicable at their inception and in their original form, could not possibly apply to a world that continues to change at a (geologically speaking) breakneck rate.

10 years ago none of us could have envisioned a world dominated by social media. 20 years ago none of us could have imagined a world of connected information networks transmitting thoughts and ideas at the speed of light between millions of individuals.

What kind of blind ignorance, what sheer insanity could a person be suffering from to not see life changing before their very eyes. Even I can scarcely believe how much has changed since I was a child, and I was born in the 80s.

To put it simply, those who adapt, survive. Those who do not will be left by the wayside. They will be discarded cruelly, mercilessly, pitifully, because that is what must be done. Progress can be denied, but it can not be stopped. Change is quite possibly the only absolute truth in existence.

Loyalty is a lie. It is a lie we tell ourselves so we can feel safe. There is no truth in loyalty, because in the right circumstances, your most loyal ally will stab you in the back. Like all things in life, we weigh the cost against the benefit. We give and take. We use each other and let ourselves be used so we can further our own ends. Altruism is also a lie. There is no one who has ever given everything to another without harboring the slightest doubt.

We are only friends with persons whom we can find a common ground with. That is how society is formed. Groups of like-minded individuals banding together for the greater good. When an individual betrays the trust of the group, they are cast out, they are pariah. Not because we disagree with them, but because we fear them and fear is the mind killer.

In the end all you can do is discuss things with him. Do not lie. Honesty is the ultimate weapon and the greatest weakness. Tell him exactly what you think of everything he says. One of two things will most likely happen. You will destroy the friendship irreparably or you will find a common ground, reach an understanding, and become stronger friends for it.

You should also not be hesitant. If you really like that girl, you must tell her so. If you find you can not, then you do not really care. Often it is hard to discern desire from envy, but as they say, truth will set you free.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

A wise man also said:

"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart:
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!"

 

[Farther than stars]

It makes no sense.

When has religion ever made sense? Anti-gay arguments based in religion are all insane, in my opinion.

I wouldn't put it like that. I'd just say it's fear. And in a way it's part of survival instinct to want others to conform to whatever group you belong to. It's part of living as a social being. And of course that's going to manifest itself some way in societal opinions and literature.
But our instincts are comepletely based on caution before reason and when the human psyche comes to reaslise that gay men and women are not a social threat, I have no doubt that things will improve as far as common opinion goes.
So no, not insane, just cautious and therefore completely natural, but nature changes. ^.^

 

[Bags159]

It makes no sense.

When has religion ever made sense? Anti-gay arguments based in religion are all insane, in my opinion.

I wouldn't put it like that. I'd just say it's fear. And in a way it's part of survival instinct to want others to conform to whatever group you belong to. It's part of living as a social being. And of course that's going to manifest itself some way in societal opinions and literature.
But our instincts are comepletely based on caution before reason and when the human psyche comes to reaslise that gay men and women are not a social threat, I have no doubt that things will improve as far as common opinion goes.
So no, not insane, just cautious and therefore completely natural, but nature changes. ^.^

No, I mean if you use the bible to prove why homosexuality is wrong then it begs the question why we listen to the bible about homosexuality, but not slavery. Cherry picking.

 

[Farther than stars]

No, I mean if you use the bible to prove why homosexuality is wrong then it begs the question why we listen to the bible about homosexuality, but not slavery. Cherry picking.

Of course, that's a different matter entirely. I'd quote Shakespeare, but Salad Is Murder already beat me to it. (Wow, that sounds like something someone in a mental ward would say.)

 

[TheScientificIssole]

I'm Atheist but at times follow the philosophy of worship what jerk-offs hate, but only to make them mad. It is method I strictly follow by.
Moar On Topic: He sucks. He is an idiot. For this topic the grays are worse than known jerk behaviors, because they're led by people thinking that a deity who wants people to be happy is actually just a jerk even in there perfect interpretation of said being.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

I think the best US President would have something to say about all this:

 

[LarenzoAOG]

It makes no sense.

When has religion ever made sense? Anti-gay arguments based in religion are all insane, in my opinion.

Any anti-gay argument is insane.

OT: A buddy and I notice a few fairly attractive girls in the mall, and being the suave, devilishly handsome bastards we are we started talking to these girls, at first they seemed pretty cool, they were nice, they were interested in video games, which gave the four of us something to talk about, and they seemed all around pleasent.

At a point in our conversation a few black guys walk by, one of them had a du rag and they were sagging their pants, whatever everyone has their own style, but one of the girls says to the other, "I fucking hate (racially insensitive word for people of african decent)," and the other girl agreed, what was at one point a possible start to a nice friendship quickly became a game of "get away from the racist bitches".

Maybe not exactly as bad as the OP's example, but thats all I got.

EDIT: Did I completely misunderstand what the OP was asking about?

 

[Sovereignty]

Why can't everyone have opinions? Why isn't there a line in the sand drawn when it comes to things like this? When I was a kid there were things you just didn't speak about.

If you and someone else ran into the subject matter, and things seemed to vary opinion wise, you'd try to gently shy away from it.

It's respect. If he thinks people who aren't straight go to hell, that's his right.

I'm sick of people who think that because their opinion is the current social "good" thought. That they're better then everyone else who's opinion differs.


You support same sex relationships? GREAT! But stfu. Seriously. Support isn't trying to persuade every gay basher, or person who questions the morality of it all to your side.

It's simply accepting it's existence, and perhaps sharing with others the fact that you're A-OK with it.

When you choose to fight, you're no longer right. They're no longer wrong.

You're just a bunch of douche-bags.

 

[Saulkar]

URGH!!! Wall'otext! Because of this I have a vague indication of what you are asking. Sorry.

The first thing I think I gleaned was; were you asking if you should stay friends? Anyways I cannot offer any true advice on whether you should stay friends on not. Instead I will simply offer some advice on how to decide for yourself.

First ask yourself: "Do I enjoy being around him, even during disagreements?" There are people I like to hang around with despite having immensely differing oppinions.
Second: Does hanging around with him or communicating with him bring you undue stress and discomfort? While I believe you should hold out for your friends no matter how hard it gets, you need to realize when it is just not worth it in the case of someone causing conflict just for the sake of it.
Thirdly: Do you want to stay friends with him or is there some alterior motive?

That is all I can offer at the moment and I hope it turns out for the best.

As for has this happened to me? Very often, just not on the same level that I should question my fiendship.

Edit: After looking at your avitar I cannot help but picture you as the Pyro and your friend as the Spy.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

*snip*

When you choose to fight, you're no longer right. They're no longer wrong.

You're just a bunch of douche-bags.

So we shouldn't fight for equal rights and protections for people that don't have them? Yeah, I guess that really makes us a bunch of douche bags. Bad on us, for shame.

 

[Fbuh]

...Wait, you're in high school?

Well there's your problem.

OT: I tried to stay out of that shit when I was younger. It did well for me.

I will swear by this philosophy.

Seriously though, don't worry too much about it. There's a 99% that yours and his beliefs will change in some way by the time you are an adult. If you have the chance for friendship now, don't let something as trivial as difference of opinion ruin it.

 

[Farther than stars]

Loyalty is a lie. It is a lie we tell ourselves so we can feel safe. There is no truth in loyalty, because in the right circumstances, your most loyal ally will stab you in the back. Like all things in life, we weigh the cost against the benefit. We give and take. We use each other and let ourselves be used so we can further our own ends. Altruism is also a lie. There is no one who has ever given everything to another without harboring the slightest doubt.

Personally I don't view loyalty as a well-defined principle, but more as a degree of mutual cooperation. And I think that is a rather sweeping statement about altruism if you're not going to supply arguments towards it. After all, who can claim to present actual facts about the human psyche?

If you find you can not, then you do not really care. Often it is hard to discern desire from envy, but as they say, truth will set you free.

*Pssst* I'd usually let this go by unnoticed, but since you seem to be putting some effort into your style, I thought I should point out that "cannot" is one word. Also, it's "the truth", if you want to be grammatically correct.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Shows you what I know about this world when one of my best friends turns on me like that. But I guess that's where our loyalty to eachother ends, so forum, what do you think of this, and have you had an experance like this?

Yes, but I don't really want to get into that here...

However, if your friend gives you any more religious issues, there are some excellent things you can say to smack him down.

1) The bible also says that you should stone to death anyone who works on the Sabbath. Also that slavery is okay.
The only way to make the bible say that being gay is bad is to take stuff ENTIRELY out of context and cite specific examples from events that take place in some of the nastier parts of the ancient middle east.
Christians ignore TONS of stuff in the bible - because it was written about life 3000-2000 years ago. The details aren't relevant anymore - the basic ideas are the important part. But religious nuts will take a single sentence and use it to support whatever awful crap they feel like supporting. So, if they are willing to take one thing to an absurd extreme (hating gay people) then why not stone to death anyone who works on Sunday?

2) Most Christians haven't done their research - the bible is HEAVILY edited. And no, I'm not talking crazy da vinci code crap - I'm taking the catholic church, in 500 AD, cutting whole books out of the bible. So any of that "you can't reinterpret the bible" stuff is crap - people were reinterpreting the bible for centuries. Reinterpreting it, editing it, cutting bits, adding new stuff - and that's the way it SHOULD BE. Honestly, the fact that people stopped making changes is part of the problem with a number of christian sects these days.

3) Actually, the bible only dislikes anal sex (just like it dislikes pork - speaking of things that Christians chose to ignore, Christians are SUPPOSED to eat Kosher according to the bible). Blow-jobs are totally cool. Only about 50% of gay men even like anal - over half of gay men prefer oral sex anyway. The bible is totally cool with lesbians - there is nothing in there about lesbians being bad.

Anyway, there's three basic ideas where you can haul out superior knowledge of Christianity to make most of the unfortunate examples of Christianity like you're describing look like the idiots they are.

Smart Christians research their religion and learn the details - faith doesn't need to be blind.