Where loyalties end.

[martin's a madman]

Well, I think you're both silly because you're debating over something arbitrary as an imaginary friend.

As for the issue itself, being homosexual is perfectly fine. I disagree with your using of a god to try to justify it, and their using of a god to try and demonise it. But hopefully that helps illuminate the fact that these religions can be made to agree with anything and they shouldn't really be taken seriously when handling moral issues.

 

[William Dickbringer]

It makes no sense.

When has religion ever made sense? Anti-gay arguments based in religion are all insane, in my opinion.

Any anti-gay argument is insane.

OT: A buddy and I notice a few fairly attractive girls in the mall, and being the suave, devilishly handsome bastards we are we started talking to these girls, at first they seemed pretty cool, they were nice, they were interested in video games, which gave the four of us something to talk about, and they seemed all around pleasent.

At a point in our conversation a few black guys walk by, one of them had a du rag and they were sagging their pants, whatever everyone has their own style, but one of the girls says to the other, "I fucking hate (racially insensitive word for people of african decent)," and the other girl agreed, what was at one point a possible start to a nice friendship quickly became a game of "get away from the racist bitches".

Maybe not exactly as bad as the OP's example, but thats all I got.

EDIT: Did I completely misunderstand what the OP was asking about?

No not really it's about where you draw the line on loyalties and his friend being a dick and arguments on homosexuality pretty much draw from so much stuff
I never heard a girl use the N word before

 

[Grospoliner]

Loyalty is a lie. It is a lie we tell ourselves so we can feel safe. There is no truth in loyalty, because in the right circumstances, your most loyal ally will stab you in the back. Like all things in life, we weigh the cost against the benefit. We give and take. We use each other and let ourselves be used so we can further our own ends. Altruism is also a lie. There is no one who has ever given everything to another without harboring the slightest doubt.

Personally I don't view loyalty as a well-defined principle, but more as a degree of mutual cooperation. And I think that is a rather sweeping statement about altruism if you're not going to supply arguments towards it. After all, who can claim to present actual facts about the human psyche?

If you find you can not, then you do not really care. Often it is hard to discern desire from envy, but as they say, truth will set you free.

*Pssst* I'd usually let this go by unnoticed, but since you seem to be putting some effort into your style, I thought I should point out that "cannot" is one word. Also, it's "the truth", if you want to be grammatically correct.

Nightmare quote.

The problem with altruism should be inheriently obvious. A sacrifice made by an individual will inevitably benefit them in some manner.

The simplest example would be a mother pushing her child out of the way of a moving car, thus being hit and killed instead. The mother preserves her genetic legacy, the most basic instinctual drive of all humans, knowing fully well that the child will have a high probability of surviving thanks to the construct of modern society.

A less obvious example would be the man who gives money or food to the homeless, or a man who stops to aid a fellow motorist broken down on the highway. In the first case, the man will feel better about himself, believing (mistakenly) that he has aided a fellow human being (something that is perceived to not occur often in modern society). In the latter case the motorist providing aid seeks to ensure that, in a situation where their roles were reversed, he would be more likely to himself receive assistance.

If a person benefits from an action how can it be construed as a selfless act?

As for my grammar: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cannot

Sha-bam!

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

?I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.? Gandhi

This pretty much sums up my feelings on religion. People can have so much hate sometimes rather than being tolerant and loving, like the central figure of their faith.

We just don't need it in the world, look at what is going on in Norway for example, horrible and tragic stuff, all in the name of politics and religion.

 

[MegaManOfNumbers]

HIGH SCHOOL IS BULLSH*T!

Just ditch his ass; if he can't respect the natural parts of humanity, then bail.

he ain't worth it, no matter how friendly he is, trust me, if you don't it'll bite you in the ass later in life.

 

[SH4DOWSL4Y3R]

I think the best US President would have something to say about all this:

WIN. (please, oh mighty moderators, exempt me from punishment for the low content D

 

[Flailing Escapist]

snips

snips

Your problem with point 1 is that's in the old testament and as a "Christian" (loosely defined between branch offs of the OG New Testament Christians) many of the Old Testament rules were abolished (as a Christian) or made obsolete; like sacrifices and such.

And in point 3 I believe God condemned Jezabel, among other things, for taking part in lesbian sex.

But I'm not a very religion savvy person, this is what I can think off the top of my head from going to church as a kid.

To OP: She has a gun?! Where did she get it from? Does her dresser spawn pistols?!!
But yes, high school is a fickle ***** who will break your heart and punch you in the dick repeatedly. Mostly because you are just starting to "start" learning a lot of important things about life. Like what kind of women(or men) to avoid and which ones are "worth it", also avoid saying/doing stupid things as a freshmen because that shit will stick with you to your senior year and always pay (enough) attention in school to get good grades so you can graduate high school and get into a good college. Etc etc etc.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

I think the best US President would have something to say about all this:

WIN. (please, oh mighty moderators, exempt me from punishment for the low content D

You're asking for it. QUICK, add some more words before they notice! ^That'll most likely get you a warning, maaaaaaan.

 

[Farther than stars]

Nightmare quote.

The problem with altruism should be inheriently obvious. A sacrifice made by an individual will inevitably benefit them in some manner.

The simplest example would be a mother pushing her child out of the way of a moving car, thus being hit and killed instead. The mother preserves her genetic legacy, the most basic instinctual drive of all humans, knowing fully well that the child will have a high probability of surviving thanks to the construct of modern society.

A less obvious example would be the man who gives money or food to the homeless, or a man who stops to aid a fellow motorist broken down on the highway. In the first case, the man will feel better about himself, believing (mistakenly) that he has aided a fellow human being (something that is perceived to not occur often in modern society). In the latter case the motorist providing aid seeks to ensure that, in a situation where their roles were reversed, he would be more likely to himself receive assistance.

If a person benefits from an action how can it be construed as a selfless act?

As for my grammar: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cannot

Sha-bam!

Don't you sha-bam me. >.> The exception is when a commanding emphasis is placed on the word "not", which is not only something considered unsophisticated in general, but is also plainly incorrect when used as part of a conditional clause.
As for your statements concerning altruism, they fail to explain why some people value one benifit more over another, although personally I feel that this created choice does suggest a fashion of moral ambiguity; even if it is less conventional than is generally accepted.
But this seems to be going rather off-topic, so I'll say no more about it here.

 

[Zeema]

HIGH SCHOOL IS BULLSH*T!

Just ditch his ass; if he can't respect the natural parts of humanity, then bail.

he ain't worth it, no matter how friendly he is, trust me, if you don't it'll bite you in the ass later in life.

yep pretty much that

in a nutshell

i don't talk to anyone from my old school's because alot were all a bit racist and sexist

 

[Aranialis]

I love it when you describe him saying the Bible is the story of God. Its hilarious... really it is!

Look into history and you'll find some of the most amazing things about religions, the bible in this case was put together as a controlling device to keep the growing christian's under control and so that public safety was kept (written by a lot of brilliant philosophers all of the Bible's texts were put together by the roman emperor of the time and his Councillors.). Truth be told is a excellent work and one of the best behavioral guidelines ever written. But to say its God's story... its not only far fetched, as it is an hilarious show of the shortsightedness of some people.

So my opinion was drawn by the time I read that little part of text. having a different point of view form a friend is something, and I love it, it creates a lot of interesting arguments, mistakenly befriending a pigheaded homophobic, is just bad luck. I'm happy that you got rid of that toxic relation.

A word about the girl you like... go to her and let her know how you feel, and let her find or be told by others then you, what her current boyfriend is doing. even if you don't end up with her you'll be happy doing something good for someone you like. Message me anytime for some interesting conversations, who knows you just might be making a new friend =).

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

I don't care about it

the point to this site is to only post if you have something interesting to say, not sentances about how you don't care.

 

[Richardplex]

I know someone like that. I'm an agnostic, and greatly enjoy arguing for arguing's sake, and don't have a problem with faith, nor with christians who can be logical about their beliefs. I was having said argument with a group of my friends, very happy with the argument as my christian friends were being very logical and it was enjoyable. Then one of them pipes up with some BS bible quote that made me want to punch him - I can't remember what he said anymore, possibly suppressed, but it was one of those quotes like "god loves everyone" "god has a plan" "who are you to question god" etc. I wanted to punch him in the face for that, ruining my argument. Although another did mention The Fall for an argument against homosexuality (don't ask) it's the only time he's not been logical in his arguments, and he's intellectually superior to me in all ways. Luckily, the rest of my friends are very logical, so I don't have that problem often.

 

[Grospoliner]

Don't you sha-bam me. >.> The exception is when a commanding emphasis is placed on the word "not", which is not only something considered unsophisticated in general, but is also plainly incorrect when used as part of a conditional clause.
As for your statements concerning altruism, they fail to explain why some people value one benifit more over another, although personally I feel that this created choice does suggest a fashion of moral ambiguity; even if it is less conventional than is generally accepted.
But this seems to be going rather off-topic, so I'll say no more about it here.

Well the problem with why certain people value a specific trait over another is an entirely different discussion all together. The human mind is woefully complex and even the best philosophers and scientists have yet to fully define what it means to be cognizant. We also have to consider evolutionary-biology as certain traits are selected to beneficial for the good of a species, such as the so called altruism.

In this case a red squirrel adopted a neighboring squirrel's pups after the parent had died.
http://www.odemagazine.com/exchange/15573/how_red_squirrels_exemplify_the_evolut

In other cases squirrels within the same family units have willingly cried alarms around predatory birds only to be killed by the predator, permitting a fellow squirrels to survive.

To some extent traits are hardwired into our biology, muddying the line between freewill and instinct.

There's also the subject of culture and peer pressure. The American culture for example, promotes an individualistic ideal. The ideal is that each person should be independent, self-supportive and non-conformist. However we clearly see this run contrary to specific individuals nature. Pressure to conform is often unconscious or inadvertent. Often kids witness other kids being bullied and attempt to conform to avoid similar treatment themselves. There's also the issue of self-image in society, where the mass media bombards youth with an unattainable ideal that they attempt to strive for regardless.

So really perception is a difficult issue to tackle.

 

[emeraldrafael]

A story of where friendships end? Yeah, I can think of one. His name is Derek. We were friends, then... stuff, happened, and now we hate each other. to the point where both of us are ready to fight at the drop of the hat, and ready to kill the other.

 

[Sovereignty]

*snip*

When you choose to fight, you're no longer right. They're no longer wrong.

You're just a bunch of douche-bags.

So we shouldn't fight for equal rights and protections for people that don't have them? Yeah, I guess that really makes us a bunch of douche bags. Bad on us, for shame.

What country are you from exactly? I was unaware that we were locked decades in the past where humans don't have equal rights.

Last I checked you go to jail for harming or harassing people over their life choices, sex, race etc.

But I guess you missed that whole thing. You must have been telling people they don't have a right to dislike things you approve of.

 

[StBishop]

I have a friend who doesn't/won't/can't understand homosexuality, he's not scared of it, but he doesn't like it, and he finds it disgusting. I am still friends with him because despite his feelings, he doesn't act on them.
He treats homosexuals that he meets with enough respect to either ignore their sexual preference, or if that's not possible he simply doesn't associate with them.

I find simply not discussing the topic with him makes life easier, I've known this guy about 10 years (the better part of my life) and to be honest it's worth accepting this difference of opinion to keep his friendship. It's not even a question for me.

Having said that, put in the situation you described, I couldn't be friends with someone like that. I don't like people who refuse to make their own opinions of things, I am Christian and I don't think I need the Pope to tell me that God's fine with homosexuality, I'd decided that long ago if he isn't then I suppose I'll answer for that when I die, but in my mind God loves us all and wants us to love each other. Hateful prejudices are against everything I've been taught and I can't respect them.

Also, anyone not moved by that video is heartless.