Where'd the fun go?

[KazeAizen]

Ok I'm going to preface this thread with this first.'

Yes, this is going to be another thread regarding Samus in the new Super Smash Bros. game.
No, this won't be a rant on the new skin that will be available for the character though that is what triggered this thought process initially.
Lastly, no rage. I want legit discussion here. Light hearted if possible. I don't want people coming in here tearing down feminists, or people coming here tearing apart Nintendo for all the supposed wrongs they've committed to this character. With that out of the way on with the thread.

So some of you may be aware that it was revealed that Zero Suit Samus will be playable in her sports bra and shorts look. While the more interesting implication this brings is the thing that probably should get more focus what most likely will get all the focus is the one that Nintendo is supposedly sexualizing her even more like they were supposedly doing when they gave her those combat heels. This got me to thinking. There have been characters in comics, TV shows, movies, and even video games that have been established as being so badass that when they do something totally off the rails we usually use some version of the phrase "Well because he/she is x." to justify it.

The most recent and prominent one these days seems to be Batman. He does stuff so incredibly awesome or impossible that we chalk the reason he was able to do such things was "Because he's Batman." Bruce Willis is also a good target for this. Why did he shoot himself in Die Hard 4 and how did he live? Because he's Bruce Willis. That scene in Red where he gets out of a sliding police car and casually starts shooting the bad guys. Because he's just that awesome.

Did video games ever have that phase or those characters? If so where did they all go? I wish the discussion about Samus' heels went less like "Oh no! They are ruining her." and more like "Why is she fighting in heels?" "Because she's Samus and she's that damn good/awesome." She's one of video game's top ass kicking females and she's been around long enough to strut her awesomeness. Why don't we react like that anymore? Girls that are so badass they can kick my ass in high heels. Yeah that's just awesome.

 

[shrekfan246]

It was taken away by those damn social justice arguments.

Er, wait, what were we talking about?

How about Sonic?

"Why does he run fast?" "Uhm, because he's Sonic, duh!"

No? Just me?

Solid Snake always seemed like that kind of character, at least the way you hear people talk about how much they hated the bait-and-switch to Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2. Most of the justification for how much they love Snake focuses on how badass a character he is, rather than any specific explanation about his character.

But I mean, David Hayter could repeat my words to me all day and I wouldn't get tired of it either.

 

[Weaver]

Duke Nukem had that in spades!

More recently I feel Bayonetta could justify pretty much whatever absurdity she wanted because, well, she's Bayonetta. She can just do that

 

[Vault101]

So some of you may be aware that it was revealed that Zero Suit Samus will be playable in her sports bra and shorts look. .

Zero suit Samus has a sports bra and shorts look?..well I supose the original was actually a leotard and in super metroid shes got the mid riff going....

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

 

[EternallyBored]

People still react like that in video games, the Metal Gear Solid games are part of this, and many beloved characters are pretty much made of this trope. "why do they do this? because it's awesome that's why." People have become more critical partially because there are a lot of older gamers now who grew up and realized that what they once thought was badass and awesome is now kind of silly and nonsensical, what was once excused by technical limitations of an era is now analyzed critically in an era where characters don't need to be 2d caricatures

In Samus case, I actually have thought about why people tend to jump on anything regarding her for awhile, and I don't think it's entirely unjustified, just misdirected.

In Samus case, a lot of her awesome came from the fact that she was one of the first female main characters in gaming, period, the only other really famous female character before her was Ms. Pacman.

Even from the beginning, there's been a little pandering in Samus' character, the bonus of getting to see her in the bikini if you beat the game fast enough.

Here's the issue though, 99% of the people who played Metroid? They never beat the game fast enough to see the bikini or skimpy clothes scenes, and with how the internet was in its infancy at the time, most never actually knew you could do more than get her helmet off.

To most people, Samus is a badass bounty hunter in 6+ feet of armor who you have likely never seen with more than her helmet off unless you were damn good at the games, or subscribed to the Nintendo Power magazines, to a massive chunk of the gaming audience, Samus is a badass who is defined by her badass power armor, no ifs, ands, or buts.

A lot of the criticism of Samus currently, focuses around the continued sexualization of zero suit Samus, and that criticism, I think stems from a fear that Other M produced. Samus was a gaming icon for so long, that a terribly received game like Other M set people into a sort of paranoia surrounding her character.

People accepted zero suit Samus in Zero Mission because she was shown as vulnerable without her suit, so regaining the iconic piece of armor was essential to completing the game. People where mostly fine with this, and while zero suit samus drew some criticism, most people thought the mechanic was used well.

Then along comes Other M, and Samus' Zero suit is now associated with a weak ineffectual waif that has a boring voice and even more boring story. Anytime she's out of her armor, she is shown as a pretty much passive character who is basically yanked around by the other characters in the story, in a way, this made fans both fear the zero suit, and associate armored Samus more with the badass hero they were accustomed to.

The criticism of Zero suit Samus isn't so much about badassitude, it's about the fear that her stupid characterization from Other M is somehow overtaking the original powersuit Samus that many know and love.

It's the fear that a once armored and armed badass 6 foot plus heroine is now a much shorter (seriously, how does she fit into that armor in Other M, she gains like a foot in height when she puts it on) and much less armored waif is going to be the new face of Metroid moving forward. The once accepted Zero suit has become detrimentally linked to the idiotic characterization of Samus in Other M, and that is a hard association to simply drop.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I don't know about you, but 4 of those 6 Batmen look like they're wearing speedos to me.

 

[Vault101]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I don't know about you, but 4 of those 6 Batmen look like they're wearing speedos to me.

they don't count unless he's showing off those sexy legs

disclaimer: I don't find batmans legs sexy..but some people might

 

[EternallyBored]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I don't know about you, but 4 of those 6 Batmen look like they're wearing speedos to me.

Is it just me, or does the second one from the left look like he needs to hit the Bat-treadmill, or maybe eat more Bat-salads.

Is that the Mark Miller version of Batman? Where he laughs like a loon at everything, and kidnaps robin after his parent's die, for dubiously explained reasons.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I don't know about you, but 4 of those 6 Batmen look like they're wearing speedos to me.

they don't count unless he's showing off those sexy legs

disclaimer: I don't find batmans legs sexy..but some people might

His costume is spandex, he's ALWAYS showing off those sexy legs.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I don't know about you, but 4 of those 6 Batmen look like they're wearing speedos to me.

Is it just me, or does the second one from the left look like he needs to hit the Bat-treadmill, or maybe eat more Bat-salads.

Is that the Mark Miller version of Batman? Where he laughs like a loon at everything, and kidnaps robin after his parent's die, for dubiously explained reasons.

I think that's the Frank Miller version of Batman from Dark Knight Returns, but I could be wrong.

 

[KazeAizen]

People still react like that in video games, the Metal Gear Solid games are part of this, and many beloved characters are pretty much made of this trope. "why do they do this? because it's awesome that's why." People have become more critical partially because there are a lot of older gamers now who grew up and realized that what they once thought was badass and awesome is now kind of silly and nonsensical, what was once excused by technical limitations of an era is now analyzed critically in an era where characters don't need to be 2d caricatures

In Samus case, I actually have thought about why people tend to jump on anything regarding her for awhile, and I don't think it's entirely unjustified, just misdirected.

In Samus case, a lot of her awesome came from the fact that she was one of the first female main characters in gaming, period, the only other really famous female character before her was Ms. Pacman.

Even from the beginning, there's been a little pandering in Samus' character, the bonus of getting to see her in the bikini if you beat the game fast enough.

Here's the issue though, 99% of the people who played Metroid? They never beat the game fast enough to see the bikini or skimpy clothes scenes, and with how the internet was in its infancy at the time, most never actually knew you could do more than get her helmet off.

To most people, Samus is a badass bounty hunter in 6+ feet of armor who you have likely never seen with more than her helmet off unless you were damn good at the games, or subscribed to the Nintendo Power magazines, to a massive chunk of the gaming audience, Samus is a badass who is defined by her badass power armor, no ifs, ands, or buts.

A lot of the criticism of Samus currently, focuses around the continued sexualization of zero suit Samus, and that criticism, I think stems from a fear that Other M produced. Samus was a gaming icon for so long, that a terribly received game like Other M set people into a sort of paranoia surrounding her character.

People accepted zero suit Samus in Zero Mission because she was shown as vulnerable without her suit, so regaining the iconic piece of armor was essential to completing the game. People where mostly fine with this, and while zero suit samus drew some criticism, most people thought the mechanic was used well.

Then along comes Other M, and Samus' Zero suit is now associated with a weak ineffectual waif that has a boring voice and even more boring story. Anytime she's out of her armor, she is shown as a pretty much passive character who is basically yanked around by the other characters in the story, in a way, this made fans both fear the zero suit, and associate armored Samus more with the badass hero they were accustomed to.

The criticism of Zero suit Samus isn't so much about badassitude, it's about the fear that her stupid characterization from Other M is somehow overtaking the original powersuit Samus that many know and love.

It's the fear that a once armored and armed badass 6 foot plus heroine is now a much shorter (seriously, how does she fit into that armor in Other M, she gains like a foot in height when she puts it on) and much less armored waif is going to be the new face of Metroid moving forward. The once accepted Zero suit has become detrimentally linked to the idiotic characterization of Samus in Other M, and that is a hard association to simply drop.

So it really is Other M's fault? That's truly a shame. Hell the only positive opinion I've seen of it came from Moviebob and that was because he had more than just the surface level knee jerk reactions to the game and its story.

 

[shrekfan246]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I don't know about you, but 4 of those 6 Batmen look like they're wearing speedos to me.

Is it just me, or does the second one from the left look like he needs to hit the Bat-treadmill, or maybe eat more Bat-salads.

Is that the Mark Miller version of Batman? Where he laughs like a loon at everything, and kidnaps robin after his parent's die, for dubiously explained reasons.

It's The Dark Knight Returns Batman, where he's in his fifties and has been retired from being Batman for many years before, well, "returning".

The 3D character modeling for Arkham City had that effect with quite a few of the alternate skins, in the actual comic/animated film he doesn't look quite so chubby rather than bulky.

 

[EternallyBored]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I don't know about you, but 4 of those 6 Batmen look like they're wearing speedos to me.

Is it just me, or does the second one from the left look like he needs to hit the Bat-treadmill, or maybe eat more Bat-salads.

Is that the Mark Miller version of Batman? Where he laughs like a loon at everything, and kidnaps robin after his parent's die, for dubiously explained reasons.

I think that's the Frank Miller version of Batman from Dark Knight Returns, but I could be wrong.

Ahh, Frank Miller, Mark Millar, I got the names mixed up, that's who I'm talking about. Although, i guess Dark Knight Returns is at least popular enoug to justify an alternate skin in Arkham City, unfortunately that story got DC to give him carte blanche to spew his Batman fetish over a bunch of other stories. Still never gonna forgive that bastard for the clusterfuck that was All-Star Batman and Robin.

Still though, some of those skins kicked ass, I hope they do something similar for Arkham Knight.

 

[EternallyBored]

So it really is Other M's fault? That's truly a shame. Hell the only positive opinion I've seen of it came from Moviebob and that was because he had more than just the surface level knee jerk reactions to the game and its story.

Despite what Moviebob may say, Other M failed in pretty much any metric a major video game company cares about, both critically and financially.

It's probably likely that Other M's failure is the reason we haven't seen another Metroid game since its release. Much like Capcom and Resident Evil 6, Other M was hated enough that Nintendo basically put the whole series on ice, and even now after so many years, the new Metroid game rumors are about a new Prime game (a series developed in the West), and a new 2D game aping the classic Metroid model.

People who actually care about Metroid are scared that the poison of Other M will forever taint the series, and the constanct shots of Samus in her Zero suit fan those flames, because, while Other M may not have created zero suit Samus, it forever poisoned the portrayals of her with associations to a game where every time Samus exits her suit, she becomes a passive weak observer to the plot.

People criticize Samus so much, because she has lost a lot of her badass credibility, if her only zero suit appearance was in zero mission, people would likely be a lot more accepting of zero suit samus, but people are afraid,that zero suit Samus indicates a return to the clusterfuck of boring characterization that was Other M.

Zero suit Samus has forever been poisoned by the weak-willed, whiny character than many see her as after Other M, and Nintendo's effort to push Zero suit in the SSB games scares people.

That fear being justifiable or not is up to the individual gamer, but Zero suit Samus will likely always carry part of the poison of Other M with her, especially if she appears in the new Metroid games.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I wish the discussion about Samus' heels went less like "Oh no! They are ruining her." and more like "Why is she fighting in heels?" "Because she's Samus and she's that damn good/awesome." She's one of video game's top ass kicking females and she's been around long enough to strut her awesomeness. Why don't we react like that anymore? Girls that are so badass they can kick my ass in high heels. Yeah that's just awesome.

The problem with Zero Samus's heels is more the fact that it very obviously goes against the original intent of the design. In early designs of the character, which you can see here [http://www.metroid-database.com/mzm/art/MZMZSSE.png], they wanted to avoid giving her high heels. Considering Smash Bros. sort of hinges on playing to fan expectations of these characters, blatantly going against the design intent of Zero Suit Samus doesn't do a whole lot of good for the game.

But as for Zero Suit Samus in general, Samus has always sort of been a semi-sexualized character, and Zero Suit Samus was just another way to sort of play on this without being overly obvious. And besides, despite how seeing her in her underwear was essentially a reward for the audience, that was likely dominated by men, that got 100% complete, her sexuality has sort of become interpreted as being as much a sign of strength as it is fan service. If Smash Bros. didn't sexualize her to a degree, I'd say that it has the opposite problem of taking away what has become, at least in part, a sign of her strength.

 

[FPLOON]

I will say though Batman never donned a pair of Bat-speedos

I'm now picturing the Adam West Batman in a patent Bat-speedo... Why? Because he's Batman, of course!

OT: Speaking of Samus, I remember trying her out[footnote]Giggity? *get slapped*[/footnote] in the new Smash Bros... and frankly, I don't give a fuck what she's wearing because she can kick some [serious] ass in them heals!! I mean, damn girl! You kicked both Sonic AND Lil Mac off the stage like "it ain't no thang"! Greninja just stood there on the opposite end of the stage like "Fuck this shit! I'm outie 5000!" until the match was over...[footnote]Granted, Lil Mac (still) won by only taking out Sonic and Greninja, didn't even lay a single punch on Zero Suit, but still... Zero Suit Samus all day everyday!![/footnote]

 

[michael87cn]

I dread the day when all female characters are Daria. They're pushing for it. It's what they want? WHAT? A SEXINESS? YUCK! Get plain or get out! Fantasy? What's that! We want reality. Boring characters pls. Realistic characters pls. Also, can my male character be 8 feet tall with biceps as big as his head pls? I also want him to be able to absorb bullets like a sponge and be able to punch people through walls. Make sure the female character looks normal, and is perfectly normal in every way!

SHE SMILED? FIRE THE ARTIST! THAT'S SEXIST...

Wow, I must be really tired. I guess I am. I am going to leave this post un-edited. I almost sound drunk.