Where's All The Character-Design Protesters For This One?

[Fleaman]

The reason is that the Dragon's Crown Sorceress has proportions that are so exaggerated, it's actually turning off many heterosexual male gamers. Note that the pile of complaints about that design can actually be cleanly divided into two separate stacks:

1. The design reduces a female character to a purely sexual object.
2. The design is ugly.

Note that people who make the second complaint are judging the Sorceress design specifically on its merits as a purely sexual object. What these two parties want is not actually the same thing. Members of the first party would likely find fault with the witch's design (the exposed belly and cleavage are pure fanservice, and are kind of at odds with her sour expression, which implies a certain brusque power and agency not predisposed to dressing sexily). Members of the second party would quietly fap. The furor over Dragon's Crown was so loud because these two disparate groups unexpectedly harmonized.

 

[scorptatious]

Eh. Metallia looks relatively tame compared to most compared to most scantily clad females. Maybe it's because I'm used to this kind of thing. The guys who made the game have made the Disgaea series.

Either way, I really don't find all of this to be a big deal. People seem way too easily offended by this kind of stuff in my opinion.

 

[Story]

Son of a gun.
You actually went and made the thread.

As was pointed out before, both of those games come from Japanese developers so I think comparing them as JRPG vs WRPG is way off. As for the designs themselves, there are many more ways the Dragon's Crown sorceress is more sexualized than the picture below. Mainly the fact that she's twisted in such away were you can also see a good portion of her ass as well as her breasts. Or the fact that she has very shapely legs, which also adds to her sexual appeal. Plus...you know...the jiggle physics.

The other character, I would argue is way more stylized what with her large hair and hat. All that said, her breasts are in fact more proportionate to her body than anything else. She maybe half naked, but I don't think that a lone makes her sexualized.

Also consider that it is the positioning and behavior of a character that most often than not contribute to their sexualization. When I was playing Dragon's Crown I was much more disturbed by these characters than by the sorceress.

Spoiler

The monk above is even fully covered, it was her moaning that didn't help much.

 

[sweetylnumb]

Uhm, im a female, and explain to me why i should be offended by that second design. I'm honestly confused.

 

[Britishfan]

Quite simple. You would find it very hard to find someone who looked like the first example in real life, but personally I know people who do look like the second example, only with less hair. That's all there is to it. I haven't met skinny people who have big bouncy boobs twice as big as their head but I have met skinny people who have boobs half the seize of their face.

 

[DementedSheep]

I might be cynical, but I freely admit to feeling bad looking at male fighting game characters and not having that body. I wish often they would cover up so I don't have to judge myself so harshly.

So I'll hazard to say for at least some women... Those big bouncy things strapped on the Sorceress promotes an impossible standard that most people think that those attracted to women want to see. The little girl with her weirdly somewhat feminine figure? Hell, almost anyone can do that. Now, I'm sure there are people who are weight conscious who can take issue about that side of her form, mind you...

I just have to point-out that this has never been the issue for me and I sick of it criticism of this shit been passed off as jealousy. The issue is not that standard is unrealistic, the issues is that the standard is nothing to look up to and emphasises being a good lay even if it makes them weak and stupid over anything that is actually worth a damn. Gigantic tits are neither visually appealing to me or functional.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

I don't see anything wrong with the second picture.. the character from the Witch and the Hundred Knights is skinny but not proportioned strange like the bizarre chick from dragon's crown is ..

 

[Ragsnstitches]

My problem with Dragons Crown was more in the posing then the designs. Much of the early art work we were shown created this image of something far more erotic then the game was pitching. She was posed in various ways that accentuated sexuality over everything else.

Large exaggerated breasts aren't innately offensive. They might be a trite and lazy in a creative sense, but not offensive.

It was the "stripper" poses she would take that left me scratching my head in exasperation. This image is the most egregious:

Spoiler: Slightly NSFW, open with discretion

Compare this to the Warrior:

Spoiler

I've recently learned of how influential the cosplay culture in Japan is and the Sorceress above fits that culture. Characters, more oftenly, are designed exclusively to fit the themes within an enclosed narrative and sometimes they are designed with the tarket market in mind too. This isn't much different then how it is anywhere where marketing might influence design, but the Cosplay culture makes this stand out to us.

This LOOKS like it was an artists interpritation of The Sorceress as portrayed by a cosplayer, more specifically, a paid cosplayer (or model).

So? The image is made to be looked at. How is this different then other images then?

Well, for the most part, other images let the themes of the image influence the posing of a character and then the efforts of the artist make it stand out. This seems to be made with the observers gaze in mind (or maybe the artists) and as a result, the setting, themes or lore doesn't inform this portrayal of the Sorceress. She "acts" alien to her design, my mind has to contort quite a bit to fit that pose within the lore and themes presented (in just that image)... and there is a lot of contorting going on in that image already.

Ultimately no one thing about this image is truly bad. It's a high quality image made by a telented artist as part of a talented team. But poor choice of posing (depending on your standing), a (in my opinion) poorly informed exaggerated design and some cheap fan service-y marketing and you get this image above.

Throw it into the boiling pot of online sensationalism and you get a controversy that exceeds rationality.

I never played the game so my ability to engage with this discussion ends here. That said, some of the game footage I've seen doesn't seem like it would improve my prior take on it. So I guess the design was more consistent with the game then I initially thought.

 

[MoeMints]

To paraphrase South Park, "people like to think a cause is something you wear on a sleeve", or in the implication of that, people often don't actually care enough that they intend to do anything, but enough that they have the image of caring.

On the Japanese and Western community who were already fans of the designs, there was mountains of fan media already done before gameplay even showed up. Even professionals in the industry were ready to give their support.

However, like the DmC, Anita, and Mass Effect complainers who have practically have a THESIS on why they dislike something, they are drowned out. With strawman arguments, and a lack of investment in what critics were complaining about creating a circular loop where being offended about them being offended is actually better than ignoring it.
Since people will automatically go for the weaker complaints regardless.

I'm not even sure of the mindset of someone who was offended over the joke response anymore.
Seriously? You must be homophobic and childish to draw burly short muscled men with bulging abs?
You don't even need to understand that an artist drawing something for 15+ hours he HATES sounds dumb, but a man who-oh wait, people don't actually look up he made stuff like Muramasa and Odin Sphere.

 

[RJ 17]

Why raise an uproar about the sorceress from Dragon's Crown and not Lulu from FFX (just as another example)?

To actually answer this question, I would say that Lulu actually looks normal. Yes, she had a strapless, shoulderless gown on and ample breasts compared to Rikku and Yuna but in no way was she actually out of the norm. In fact, she was wearing more clothing than almost anyone else in that party except maybe Auron.

And her victory pose was bending over to show off said cleavage as her breasts bounce against each other like a Newton's Cradle. It has little to do with what clothing she's wearing...for all intents and purposes the sorceress in Dragon's Crown is actually wearing just about as much as Lulu, and Lulu's breast size is just about the same as the sorceress' as well. I'd imagine that both casters suffer from serious back problems considering their flagrant disregard for the use of bras.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

She's wearing next to nothing? That hat alone must be 25 pounds of material, she's wearing the equivalent of 6 business suits on top of her head.

But seriously, in addition to the fact that not many people have probably heard of this game, she just looks friggin bizarre if you ask me. In addition to the weird hat, she seems to have enough hair to supply a small village with wigs, weird toothpicks arms, and a waist that looks like it's maybe 16 inches.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

And her victory pose was bending over to show off said cleavage as her breasts bounce against each other like a Newton's Cradle. It has little to do with what clothing she's wearing...for all intents and purposes the sorceress in Dragon's Crown is actually wearing just about as much as Lulu, and Lulu's breast size is just about the same as the sorceress' as well. I'd imagine that both casters suffer from serious back problems considering their flagrant disregard for the use of bras.

Really? They seem pretty uncomparable to me.

Spoiler

I never liked Lulu though, I always felt like she was a little too bland, and her appearance didn't seem to really mesh with her personality. She was definitely a bit sexualized, but nowhere near grinding a staff between your asscheeks levels.

And as a lot of people have mentioned already, the Sorceress was just the posterboy for a game that is just full of designs just like that. Having now played through a decent amount of the game, I'd have to struggle to think of a female character that wasn't pretty much "boobs on a stick". Thankfully I don't really like the game, so I'm not missing much.

But yeah, Dragon's Crown and its ilk is far more deserving of the response it got than the character you showed, or Lulu. Hell, in Muramasa Rebirth (same artist) they pretty much skirt the line of tentacle rape.

Spoiler: Needless to say, NSFW

"BUT MEN ARE SEXUALIZED TOO!!!"

So I think that Lulu and that image you showed were pretty tame in comparison

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I really wish the answer could be something along the lines of "people realized the dumbass tumblr crowd were pulling another overblown fit and stopped taking them seriously", but it's probably just because the game is lower profile and the imagery is more cartoonish.

I try not to even engage in these discussions anymore because I think we've long since crossed the line that separates "cleaning up the industry" from "trying to shame content makers into creating exactly the sort of things I want to buy... even though I'm probably not the sort of person who buys them in the first goddamn place".

 

[MoeMints]

"BUT MEN ARE SEXUALIZED TOO!!!

Case in point, that's promotional art for a cover.

When have you ever seen promotional art be 1:1 with the product's content?

Spoiler

If you want a freebie though, there is your kitsune assistants, bath scenes, and how you attack the thunder god.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

"BUT MEN ARE SEXUALIZED TOO!!!

Case in point, that's promotional art for a cover.

When have you ever seen promotional art be 1:1 with the product's content?

Spoiler

If you want a freebie though, there is your kitsune assistants, bath scenes, and how you attack the thunder god.

To be fair it matches pretty well to a lot of what I've seen, and is done by the same artist who does the art for the game. I haven't actually played Muramasa Rebirth, so I assumed it was just one of those in game scenes they showed like in Dragon's Crown where everything is more or less unmoving except for the occasional jiggling boobs or such. I'd also seen gameplay footage of the boss she's fighting, so I'd guessed it was shown before or after that fight.

It's a shame, because I almost like the artist's work. He has really nice use of colors, and an interesting style. It's just a lot of his designs that I have issue with. Not just the sexualized ones either

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

The fur along the upper portion of her dress does well to conceal her assets, to be fair. However as I specifically mentioned:

Spoiler: The proof is in her victory pose

 

[VanQ]

I guess the emphasis on 'giant rocking tits' spurred the controversy with Dragon's Crown.

That second pic is just weirdly disproportionate on every level. Two hundred pound hair, a hat the size of a diner table, toothpick arms, and a plank for a waist. It's overall too wierd for any real sex appeal to shine through.

This is actually the answer.

There are two things that get the PC crowd riled up.

-Big Tits.
-Erect Penises.

No really. You can show as many tiny titted girls and flacid penises as you want. But if they happen to be big or erect then you're in for a hell of a time

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

As far as I can tell, the biggest difference between the two is that for Dragon's Crown the character design was used as a selling point and they wanted the controversy (it is free advertising, after all), while Metallia isn't used that way, so people don't know, or even care, about her design.

 

[Aiwe]

I can only speak for myself, but characters like the sorceress make me feel uncomfortable because having your tits bounce around like that hurts. There is a reason women wear sports-bras while jogging or doing any sports...

Yeah, it's kind of like how guys flinch sometimes when they see another guy get hit in the nuts.
Like... whenever I see her walk animation I just think `ow`.

Totally agree. That and the weird uncanny valley effect of knowing, at a visceral level, that real breasts do not bounce around like they're made of helium jelly.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Snip.

The fur along the upper portion of her dress does well to conceal her assets, to be fair. However as I specifically mentioned:

Spoiler: The proof is in her victory pose

I did mention that she was a bit sexualized, and really that's just a single pose. In the rest of the game I can't really think of another example of something like that, so that's not that bad.

-Erect Penises.

I have never seen an erect penis in any media (Um, porn excluded). Compare that to the plethora of boobs that I've seen, I'm pretty sure that the lack of erect penises in media has more to do with the fact that they don't imagine they'll bring in a whole new market by showing one, so it's not worth putting in.

Also, I was part of the camp that disapproved of Dragon's Crown and I have absolutely no problem with nudity in media. Or sex for that matter. Or erect penises. As far as I've gathered from other people who complained about it, the problem most people were having was the presentation and the trend of female characters being made scantily clad and dolled up for the male audience.