Which games do you consider Art?

[Versago]

Hey Guys,
A radio co-host I work with argued with me the other day that games cannot be art (I'm on the side that they can be).
I'm on the radio later today discussing this with him (I'm not going to use this as a blatant plug and say where), but I wanted to know - what games to you consider art?

Here is the definition of "Art" that he gave me:
?Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect.?
"The use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others."
One extra bit is that Art should have no other purpose than itself.

That last bit is something he added that I disagree with, art can be pretty as well as pointful - else Bioshock 2 couldn't be art without making the graphics and shoot crappy.

I'm also already aware of the Mass Effect 2 moment described in Extra Credits (that series actually sparked this argument, props to the guys on it by the way; they do a really great job).


- So yes, in short, what games fulfil those requirements or stand out as "Art" to you?
What game affected your emotions, intellect or senses?
What environment or experience do you share with others that works as a credit to the developers? use of skill and/or imagination?
(And yes, I will be making a large shout-out to Tim Schafer on this matter.
But defiantly not Peter Molyneux)

 

[CardinalPiggles]

art means nothing to me.

 

[MercurySteam]

Honestly? Mass Effect 2.

It does so many things to draw you in, and all with the characteristics of a great game. High five Bioware!

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Wow. That guy must be a pretty important figure in the art world to make such confident statements.

 

[sneakypenguin]

None, they are entertainment software programs. They can have aspects of art but as a whole I wouldn't say any game is.

nb4 SOTC and anything is art ppl.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Okami.

The complete package.

Graphics that'll never age badly, amazing soundtrack, simply fantastic gameplay, a well-told story...

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Here is the definition of "Art" that he gave me:
?Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect.?
"The use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others."
One extra bit is that Art should have no other purpose than itself.

My sister is an artist, So let's boil this down

- Art is How we perceive the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect.
- How we perceive the Artist's use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others.
One extra bit is that Art should have no other purpose than itself.

I have a problem with that last line especially, because artist make art to sell and live off of, breaking your friend's final rule

 

[SteveoftheHills]

Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect.

One extra bit is that Art should have no other purpose than itself.

The second statement contradicts the first. Art in the first statement is being used to create an emotional or intellectual response, which means it can't simply be an end in itself, but is instead serving a purpose.

 

[L4hlborg]

Bioshock is always a good one. I'm not gonna spoil too much if you haven't played it but if you have, you should know what I mean.

Mass Effect 2 is a very good choice too, even though a friend of mine argued that it's scifi and therefor cannot be art (don't ask). I know it was mentioned in the op, but it's worth repeating.

Then we have RDR, which is a beautiful weastern story. Weasterns can be art in film, so I give this one art points.

CoD MW actually makes some interesting points in terrorism and stuff like that, even though it's often regarded as a brainless shooter.

CoD MW2 has an amazinng story and... Just kidding.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

For games to be art they have to engage with the discourse that artists and people who appreciate fine art engage in. You would be just as wrong to say that Inception is Art as you would be to say that Shadow of the Colossus is art. In doing that you are only further shunning the real art world and trying to redefine what art is to suit your own preconceptions instead of engaging with the art world. Fumito Ueda is educated about art and correctly says that Shadow of the Colossus is an entertainment product and not something he made as a work of art. A very small number of games are made to engage with the language of art but they are almost never brought up in these discussions. Companies like Tale of Tales confuse matters even more by wilfully scorning the art world as much as they scorn games but deciding to call their work high art anyway.

 

[Outright Villainy]

Well the term "art" is highly debated and subjective.
For a deep experience inherent to the medium of games, go with Shadow of the Colossus.
Such an easy fallback, yay for enjoyable arty games!

 

[tGx Angel]

The real question is : What is art?

the real question is, what isn't art.

=\

also, Ico.

- Ang

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

This is a rather hard question because art exists in many forms that are present in games. There's writing, artwork, music, and the potential for intrapersonal reflection.

Odin Sphere was one of the most gorgeous games I've ever played. WoW has beautiful landscapes. Okami looks like a painting in motion.

Final Fantasy IX and X both have amazing music while I also quite enjoyed Parasite Eve's dark soundtrack.

The writing in Mass Effect was great and it demonstrated that games have the ability to challenge a person critically.

Shadow of the Colossus was just wow. No game had me in awe of my enemies, and no game ever made me feel bad for taking them down. Nothing says death like seeing the light go out in a colossus' eyes.

 

[SushiJaguar]

I'm just going to say I consider all games to be art. If the Hallucinogenic Toreador in my living room is considered art, then I would wholeheartedly submit almost all games as art. AQ notable example, would be the Colour My series on Newgrounds. Those are flash games that are undeniably art.

 

[SteveoftheHills]

For games to be art they have to engage with the discourse that artists and people who appreciate fine art engage in. You would be just as wrong to say that Inception is Art as you would be to say that Shadow of the Colossus is art. In doing that you are only further shunning the real art world and trying to redefine what art is to suit your own preconceptions instead of engaging with the art world. Fumito Ueda is educated about art and correctly says that Shadow of the Colossus is an entertainment product and not something he made as a work of art. A very small number of games are made to engage with the language of art but they are almost never brought up in these discussions. Companies like Tale of Tales confuse matters even more by wilfully scorning the art world as much as they scorn games but deciding to call their work high art anyway.

Redefining art to suit one's own preconceptions is the process in which art evolves. Once, mediums such as novels and movies, not to mention most types of music, painting, sculpture, and pretty much anything else now widely considered as art, were viewed as nonart. The artness(if you will) of something is not an innate quality, it is only perceived, meaning if I think something is art(because it elicits some sort of emotional response from me, my personal definition of art) then it is art, even if the creator of the object himself doesn't believe it to be.

 

[tGx Angel]

the bottom line is, all creative mediums are a form of art, whether that be painting, writing, photography or music doesn't matter. the question we are answering is, what video games do we, as individual gamers, consider art.

also, geometry wars.

- Ang

 

[manythings]

The real question is : What is art?

the real question is, what isn't art.

Thank you. Got to it before me.
I have been saying for years that pretty much anything at all can be considered art.

Indeed. I can't think of anything that isn't art.

Art is in the eye, not in the brush stroke.

Well not ANYTHING. Art, in theory anyway, can serve no other purpose than existing. If it fulfills a secondary role then it can't be art. I kind of agree and kind of disagree with this, some of the things created by science and engineers are marvels of the purest artistry.

EDIT: Just thinking about something I was told once: Art isn't just the artists piece but the full reaction between the piece and the viewer in a kind of alchemical interaction.

 

[Phoenixlight]

I'm sure there's multiple threads with this same question.

 

[stormtrooper9091]

"All Art is Quite Useless" - Oscar Wilde

 

[VincentX3]

Okami on the PS2
The reasons are obvious