Which H.P. Lovecraft book should I read.
- Thread starter Layzor
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Penguin books has a trilogy: The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories, The Thing on the Doorstep and Other Weird Stories, and The Dreams in the Witche's House and Other Weird Stories.
It has all of his short stories only, none of his poems.
I've only read them recently, and am half way through the third of the trilogy, but they are fantastic. The stories: The Whisper in the Darkness, The Shadow over Innsmouth, and the Mountains of Madness, are some of the best stories, short or not, that I have read. Many of Lovecraft's works reference his other works, such as the Great Old Ones, or the Necromonicon, the trilogy is arranged in a way to eliminate confusion in later works, by listing the referenced works first. The trilogy also has reference notes for the more difficult to understand terminology, or notes on his inspiration for particular works.
They are pretty cheap, and well worth the price.
eBooks usually has his complete works for incredibly low cost, Kobo does for around a dollar if memory serves.
It has all of his short stories only, none of his poems.
I've only read them recently, and am half way through the third of the trilogy, but they are fantastic. The stories: The Whisper in the Darkness, The Shadow over Innsmouth, and the Mountains of Madness, are some of the best stories, short or not, that I have read. Many of Lovecraft's works reference his other works, such as the Great Old Ones, or the Necromonicon, the trilogy is arranged in a way to eliminate confusion in later works, by listing the referenced works first. The trilogy also has reference notes for the more difficult to understand terminology, or notes on his inspiration for particular works.
They are pretty cheap, and well worth the price.
eBooks usually has his complete works for incredibly low cost, Kobo does for around a dollar if memory serves.
HPL did have some pretty unsavoury views. "The Street" as a story is a pretty good indication of where they lay, and the "degenerate half-breed" as a stock villainous minion recurs quite a lot in his work. That said, it was never enough to put me off his work, as it's almost never the main focus of the story. It's also important to consider Lovecraft as a product of his time - a time when such sentiments were far more commonplace and acceptable than they are now.
TL;DR: trying to claim you shouldn't read Lovecraft because he's racist is a little like trying to claim that Tolkien was sexist because he persistently referred to the race of humanity as "Men" and had very few sympathetic female characters - the answer is "kind of yes, but so what?"
Trying to claim that you shouldn't read Lovecraft because his prose style occasionally approaches the experience of wading hip-deep through cold porridge, now that might be a safer bet.
TL;DR: trying to claim you shouldn't read Lovecraft because he's racist is a little like trying to claim that Tolkien was sexist because he persistently referred to the race of humanity as "Men" and had very few sympathetic female characters - the answer is "kind of yes, but so what?"
Trying to claim that you shouldn't read Lovecraft because his prose style occasionally approaches the experience of wading hip-deep through cold porridge, now that might be a safer bet.
T̵͓̩͙͈̥̬ͮ̾̍̊͐͜͢ͅǒ̪͔̲̺̺͕̯̼̱́͘ ̤̥̎͟͝i̠̯͔̟̝̓ǹ̌̔̑̅̇͊͏͕̗̱̯̦v̻̩͈̦͉̟̣̫̅̑ͧ̈o̼̱̪̞ͦ͛͂ḱ̢͓̱̦̘̊͑̆͂̌̇̔e̶̦̣̦̟̤̯͎̐͋̒̓͆̀͋ ̸̭̲̹̲̞̗̯̐ͮ͒ͪͩ̀t̼ͨ͒͐́̅̇́͘h̵̡̖̭̐e͈̥̥̜̭̮̎̍̒͊́ ̸̷̗̫͖̇̃͆ͣ̕h̹̗̥̩͚͍̪̳͒̈̈́iͤ͌ͭ̇ͨ̌҉̺v̨̧͙̗̦ͭͤͭ̽̈e͎͓̫̭͊̒̾̅̇͂̕-̛̈́̄̈́̔͌̏͏͉̝͎̜̬̗m͕̻̭̺̺̂̌͐͆̅i̘̮̠̮̎̐̓̇̿͊̎̚̕͝n̨̥̰̞͇̜͓ͣ͆͐̀́d̡̟̰̻̩̩͖̤̬̥̅̐̿̅̆ͤͩ ̡͙̭̼̪ͮͣ̄́̍ͩ̕͠r̵̞̳̉̊̅ͣ͑͛͋̓͞e̵̫͈̓̉ͣ̅̂ͬ͑͜p͎̩ͬ̂̀r͚̹̩̯ͧ̒̿ͤ͝e̵̘̪̞̟͛͑̽͋ͣ͐̔ͬş̥̮͖̠̗̤̱͕̒̄e͚͊ͫ̄̀̚n̵͔͇̣̘̲͔ͧͫ̑ͩͪ̄͆t̢͗ͭ̋ͭ͛͏̻̯į̡̧̫ͯ̓n̡̨̛̼̘̘͂͐̎ͩ̀g̨̲̫̱͉̫ͭ̓̐̒͗̀́ ̞̙̙͓̓́͜͜c̢̤̲̻̲̗̟̯͗̐͋ͥͅh̻̦̤ͫ̊̌͊̉͝ȁ̺̤͓͚ͮͣ́̔̓o̧̗̭̖̳͖̮ͯͧ͘ͅs̴̛͎̼͓̳͈̯͙ͤ̔ͯ̉̈́̿̇͋.̵̲̯̭͚̄̽The_root_of_all_evil said:
̛̬̳̳̬̞͙ͨ̈́̋ͭ̃̾͋͘I̴̥̫̯͕͓͇̩̯̔̈́̄ͨ̑̽̚͞n̯̭͈͇̖̫̹̊͜vͮ̾̃ͨ͏̧͉̣̞͎̟̲͈̣͝o̧̢̫̲̘̙̽ͯ̈̏ͩ͊̃ͪ̚͞ͅͅk̨̫̩̦̝̝͚ͮ̀͘ͅi̶̎ͤͣ̉҉̳̰̥̤̻ṉ̝͇̭̉̊̇ͅg̴̥̟̗̮̉ͫ̋ͦͯͩ̚͟ ̜̞̳̩͓͔̔ͣ̊ͫ̾͆́̚t̼͖̹ͪ͋ͯͤḩ͕̟̪̤̃̑̓̔e̠̝͙̼̯̞͌̑ͥ̿̔ͫͥ̒̚ ̶̖̬̟̌̂̑̕f̢͉͉̭͂̿͟͞e̼̮͕̊̏͗̌ͦ͂̽͒̃͘͞e̡͓̖̲ͣͮͧͬ̾́ͅl̸̡̯̝͍͙̥̓ͥͥͩ̍į̸̟̃̏͐ͯ̒ͬ͌ǹ̨̡̩̗̂̈ͨg̴̫̮͔͑ͤ͗̍ͦ ̹̖̱̜͉͌̑̆̾ͨ̊̂͒̿͜o̫͔̖͍̘̿͂́̉ͥ͑ͬ͋͢͢f͗ͯ̄͗̃͂ͧ̚҉̦̻̻̟ ̶̧̮̻̫̙͖̹͓͌͒ͣ͒̆̒̄̌̇́c̛̥̮̠ͨ̇̂͒͆h̷̤͉͊̇ͤ͐ͭ͠ḁ̡̳̺͚̣̭̖̮̾̚o̝̳͒ͧsͬͩͨ̑҉̨͓̗.̝̼͚̻̏̏͐
̬̩̰̱̰͂̊̂ͫ͘Ẅ̲͎͖͉̗̳́̓͗̌ͨͣ̌ͧ͢i̸̘̺̦̮ͦ͢ẗ̢̧̪̦͎̰̭̑̏̀̈́̂̆̕ͅh̵̴̫̓͂ ̡̤̻̒̚o̧͚̮̹̪̗̣ͯͤ̄͐ͮ̏u̳͈̝̳͇̻̱͔͒̍͋̀͠ͅt̷͕͚̖͉ͥ̽ͮ̍̓̇ ̧̼̩͈̦͔͚̼̠̓̔̈̍͒ͮ̚o̻̅͌̅̍r͇̪ͫ̇̾̎̆̒d̡̢͙̮̖̻ͪ̑́ͮ̉̔ͯͅě̫̯͉̆̀́̊ͩ́ͭ͠r̖̣͕̤͉͖̍̓̑͒̍̒̀́.͙̰̐̍͝͝ͅ
̨̩̟͔͓̬̃ͤ̉͆͢T͎̻̫̺̤͙̯̠̅̌͐ͧ̈̈́ḩ͈̰̺̄͌ͨ̏̈́̄̾ͦe̵͉̻̖͚̰̩͚̮̓̄ͮͤ̇̿̒͗ͪ͝ ̛̘͍̭͔̰̘̈́ͤ̑N̸̪̞̻̈̔̌͢e̸̗̝͈͚̯̪͊ͭ̓ͫ̄͡ͅz̨̞ͤͭ̅̆̓͛̍̚̚͘p̬̲̫͚͈̯͔̱̠̄̆̕ḕ̳̰̪͚ͬ̌̓͌ͨͨ͜r̄̈́ͯ̉͂ͦ҉̛͉̳̲̤͞d̬̥͓̙͕̅̏ͫ͊ͮ͊̇͘͜i̮͔̪͈͛ͩ̃ͪ͛a͔̰̣̰̬̤̓̇̏͡ͅn̟͖̞̫͉͇̰͐͌͊ͩ̌̈́̒̂̀́ ̢̣̖̦̦̈̑̋́̏ͦͫ͘h̛͎̱̳̤̖̘̥͛ͥ͋͗ͅi͙̭̣͔͈̯͍ͧ͑ͪ̄̍͜͞v̡̨̜̝̝̪̖͑̄ͩ͂̐ͪ͋e̥̗̳̓ͤ͘͜-̨͈͎̭͚̮̅̂̍͂̈́̉ͬ̌͆̀͞m̧̡̃̓̅̋̎ͪͩ҉̤̻̤̤̗̩i͚͆̎̔͢͝n̡̲͇̪͙͓̂̽̒͆̌ͭd̺̀̋ͤ͛̃̀̿ ̥͔̩̟̀ͨ͛̚͢o̵͕̠͈ͬ̈f̆͐̈́̍̂̂͒̀͠҉̭̤ ̺ͫ̈̏̄ͪ̽͐̚͠ç͓͍͍͙̩̖͇͔̿̓̎ͪ̋̀̔̎h̵̷̟̟̗̋̋̍ā̫̙̥̹̗̣̣̭̅o̿̄ͦ҉͏̺̱s̛̯̹̣̋.͕͈͎̽ͫ͌͋͟ ̋̿̈́̀҉͈̲̘͇͙̱͝Z̽̄̽̄ͪͩ͐̿҉̘̺̮͠a͖͇͕̯̰͉̫̥ͪ̾̑͊̈́̍͢l̩̲̫̈ͧ͐̉͆̐ͯ͜g̛̲͇̟̥̟̥͚ͭ̄ͪ̎̔́͊ͧo̷̯̠̝̫̜͎͑́̚͢ͅ.͓̜̹͍͆͐̋̕͝ ͕͔̻̗̟͙́̀͠
̛̙̭̫̭́̀ͅḨ̱̥̹̺̳̰̲͇͎͂̌ͣ̊͊̀̓̇̚̕ȩ̴̠͙̫̒ ̫͚͈̥̣̖͖͗ͮ̊ͪ́̒ͦ͟͟w̨̤̙̳͖̔ͭ̿ͨ͂̒̒h̸̙͈͗ͩ͋̋́̾ͩo̢̺͎̠͈ͫͤͯͤ̐ ̴̢͕̻̩̫̋̑͗͆ͥ̽̚W͚̪̓̿̑̄̓̐a̵̞̺͔̰̻͙̞͌̀̌ͯͪ͌̚̕i̫̖͈̺̥͖̗̱̓̉ͣͣ̌͡t̤͍̋̚ͅs͉͎͊ͯ̓̍̓͋̈̎͝ ̞̖͇̪̘͙͎̆̂ͭ̈͡B̔͋̅ͦ̂͛̓͠͞҉̠̭͉̜͓e̖̺̦̝̜̳̟̼̽̓h̬̮͇̜̹̐ͧͭͤ͑̈̍͢ǐ̤̦͖̲̪͠͠n̛͕̖̰̘̻̮̭̦͊̑̍͐d͎̘̮̫̠̙̓ͣ͊̍̊ͮ̔̽̿́ ̵ͫ͛̄ͧ̃҉͏͔͍̙̹̤̣͎T̶̲̞̖̦̻͑͛ͮͨͮ̋͠h̬͕̲̬̣̠̎̌̿̄͋̆͊̕e͉̣̳̬̜̤̳͕͔͂̆ͤ̿͠ ̂̊̈́͆҉̶͕͈͕̺W̴̨̙͓̙̻̠̭ͯͧ̑ͣą̴̠̝̬̜͉͕̉̏l̷͎͙̖̯̪̝̣̓ͥ̊̀̚lͣͩ̚҉҉̼̥̣ͅ.̨̩̃ͥ͑͑̓̓̆̊
̳̤̫̻͐̐͢Z̥̘̹̈ͩÀ̴̬̥̘̻̯͙̳̀̄͋̿͞L̷̨͓͚͉̜͒̉̽̾͊͒G̯̬͊ͭ͂̅̚͠O̭̼̳͍̼̥̐́̾̉͌!̳̺͕͇͍̺̞̋̾͗̌̑
One Hit Noob said:
Would you please explain your quotation marks around "cite?" I did cite a Wikipedia article rather than pretend to, as your quote marks imply.
But as to your statement, you have reiterated what I had said and what Wikipedia explained in depth:
A) He was a bigot in a society considerably more bigoted than much of the modern era.
B) Even for that society he was an extremist.
I've seen this asserted but never cited. Which is to say I've never seen anything written by Lovecraft himself in which he says, "Sorry about all that race war stuff."One Hit Noob said:
Yes he married a Jewish woman whom he considered to have been "well assimilated" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft#Race.2C_ethnicity.2C_and_class which of course meant he felt she could "pass" for white.
Here's a book specifically about Lovecraft that can educate you on the topic of subext and some of its uses in fiction:One Hit Noob said:
http://books.google.com/books?id=FnXbrXhKfyIC&lpg=PR12&ots=fw36I4HwGL&dq=%22call%20of%20cthulhu%22%20literary%20subtext&pg=PR11#v=onepage&q=%22call%20of%20cthulhu%22%20literary%20subtext&f=false
But the short answer is: Yes. Every story ever written contains the author's opinions about something in the real world.
From my first link above http://www.contrasoma.com/writing/lovecraft.html we have this:
So, yeah. It's not just a story about scary fish men. The "hidden" nature of this particular iceberg of paranoia and disgust is his intense fear of any community of immigrants from a country besides his beloved England. The moral and message is this: If your English dad married a lady from Morocco or wherever then you're just as subhuman as her and will eventually "turn into one." It's a diatribe against interracial marriage. As the son of an interracial couple, I cannot express how repugnant that is.
It's not like he was an electrician who happened to hate Italians, or an airline pilot who thought Asians were subhuman. He was a writer of fiction which makes his views relevant to his work even had he tried to suppress his opinions. And he was far from circumspect.
The one good thing I can think to say about him is that he became an atheist early in his life and remained so. But that one rational decision does not make up for a lifetime spent maxing out the cultural ills of his era.
Before I learned about the bigoted side of him I too was a bit of a fan. He was definitely a talented wordsmith whose narrative poured off the page smooth as cream -- blasphemous, pulsating cream with blinking eyes and rudimentary tentacles breaking the skin.
But exactly like an encounter with one of his eldritch horrors from beyond the void, what has been seen cannot be unseen. You have the right to continue rationalizing and close your eyes to the subtext. You can choose to ignore what he was actually saying and read his work on only the most superficial, childish level.
"Oohh, octopus men are gross and scary! Eeek!"
But to do so you must ignore the fact that every disgusting thing in his stories is an intentional metaphor or analogy for people of any ethnicity besides his own, his distrust of science, and his disgust at women and sexuality.
So please, go ahead. Enjoy the thinly veiled propaganda of a man who's most every view stands against the cultural progress of the last 100 years.
But it doesn't change the fact you're consuming a fecal mass of hate made tolerable by a thin frosting of prose.
Every English Literature Professor in existence, even the ones yet alive, are spinning in their grave.boradis said:
His books are about cosmic horror (For the most part). Occasionally, his racism peeks through.
Oddly enough, though, your obvious blanket hate of people from the past that merely acted and thought as their generation did is more offensive and derogatory then anything Lovecraft ever wrote.
I find this humorous.
Then you didn't read my post, nor the long and detailed analyses by English literature professors to which I linked and who's insight I am only relaying.AccursedTheory said:
There IS no such thing as "cosmic horror." It's imaginary. He made it up as metaphor and analogy for real world things. Only a baby thinks that stories of this nature are just "ooga booga booga."
Even as ignorant and wrong-headed as Lovecraft was, at least he understood that.
I second this. Penguin has published 3 compilation books which covers most all his "Cthulhu mythos" works. I've read 2/3 "Call of Cthulhu..." and "Dreams in the Witches House" or something to that effect.Witty Name Here said:
The former is a fantastic and varied romp through the deepest recesses of psychological torment. "Dreams..." is plain ****. I wanted to like it and some of the stories were rather good, but the majority is taken up with a massively long and boring dream-based tale which is neither horrifying nor interesting and seems an excuse for ol' H.P. to invent a new creature with a silly name every five minutes.
His beloved England? He was American. Also his cat was named "n-word man" (as the cat in one of his books) which he was very fond of. I find it a little bizarre that someone would name a favourite pet after something they supposedly hate and fear.boradis said:
Also : it is possible to enjoy someone's work without supporting the person's ideals. Look at all the people who play Shadow Complex with abandon despite the views of its writer (who is alive and still espousing these views). Going even further, many of us play videogames in which we kill people, hundreds often, but that doesn't mean we support murder.
I'm not saying people should read racist texts for fun, but an analogy between an otherworldly creature and a race that was considered inferior at the time could easily be read into just about any monster-based work out there.
The Penguin classics editions also contain an explanatory notes section to give you some more insight as well as a background to the stories to help them make a little more sense.
I'm not sure why that needs to matter.* One of the best features of art is that it transcends the individual artist and can take on personal meanings. That his stories have evolved beyond their origins into something that creates meaning, not only on a personal level, but a shared meaning for a diverse group of readers is great. If anything, the continued popularity of Lovecraft's work as horror stories (and nothing more**) is a loud refutation of any possible bigotry in their origins. In effect, the bigoted ideas are so ludicrous, cosmic horrors are more credible.boradis said:
*When it comes to the work. Certainly, you are welcome to determine what is important personally for yourself.
**Nothing more for most of the audience.