Which is the bigger problem? Piracy or DRM?

[Cryo84R]

Here is a crazy and revolutionary idea: If you can't afford something, don't get it!
Stealing is stealing, no matter how you try to justify it.

until you buy the product and it doesn't work cause of stupid DRM

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt4BpnfAN-o

Yeah that's so worth paying for.

Totally missed the point. If something isn't worth paying for then it's not worth having when it comes to things made by others to make a living.

Your overwhelming sense of entitlement is staggering. "I deserve things I don't pay for because " is just mind boggling.

 

[Gindil]

Piracy.

DRM is annoying, but only affects certain games. Piracy affects all of them.

Please expand. The correlation seems quite a bit odd.

 

[binvjoh]

Piracy.

DRM is annoying, but only affects certain games. Piracy affects all of them.

Please expand. The correlation seems quite a bit odd.

Only some games use the sort of annoying DRM people complain about, while every game on the market is in one way or the other affected by piracy.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Piracy, by its defintion, is worse. It's illegal, and it is the direct causal reason for the increase DRM measures we've been made to endure.

Think of this way: if there were no DRM, piracy would still exist. It might even get worse, since there would be nothing stopping it at all.

However, if there were no piracy, DRM would no longer have a purpose, and for all intents and purposes cease to be.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Protip:
Watching your silly anime on the internet is ALSO copyright infringement. Enjoy your jailtime

Thats depends on where you get it from. Sites like Youtube and Hulu have agreements with publishers and other companies to allow people to view anime on their websites in return for advertisments or subscriptions.

So while you personally might not pay to watch, someone somewhere pays out to the publisher when you watch a show on that site.

Now if you torrent it, or use some of the seedier sites, then yes, you have an issue.

 

[Yopaz]

snip

Whatever game that was you tried to download, you were doing it wrong. I've yet to hear about one that's worth people's attention and wasn't cracked. Basically, you think that DRM prevents piracy because you failed to crack your game, is that it? No, seriously, why do you think it stops piracy in any way, shape or form?

If anything, draconian DRM leads to more piracy and less actual sales, as witnessed by something like Spore, which was pirated the shit out of precisely because of its DRM. And I'm not completely against DRM of any kind, but as I've expressed my distaste towards multiple DRM programs, which every fucking major publisher feels they need to clamp my computer with, and the inconvenience intrusive or badly thought out (read: SC2) DRM brings to the customers, this, first and foremost, may bring actual losses of sales because the people who actually buy their products are the ones inconvenienced.

Person below me, enough of your idiotic moral crusades.

Yes, I might have been doing it wrong, or downloaded a version where the crack was flawed, but it was an inconvenience so I decided that steam sold the game which made me able to download it legally without considering any problems installing it since Steam does both the download and installing while I sit back and relax. I wont say DRM is a great thing, maybe not even a good thing. It hurts the consumer at the same time as it doesn't prevent piracy for long.
However there are the cases of creative protection of games such as the love simulator for DS where you would never get lucky if you pirated it. If it didn't prevent piracy it at least sucked all the fun out of pirating.
And I think you missed the point of my original post where I said that I do not like DRM, but it's there for a reason. If no-one pirated no DRM would be needed, or don't you see that?

Let's now consider a world without pirates, would Ubisoft give us their awful game protection that punishes their customers? If you want to disagree again, answer that question before you say anything else please.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Here is a crazy and revolutionary idea: If you can't afford something, don't get it!
Stealing is stealing, no matter how you try to justify it.

until you buy the product and it doesn't work cause of stupid DRM

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt4BpnfAN-o

Yeah that's so worth paying for.

Totally missed the point. If something isn't worth paying for then it's not worth having when it comes to things made by others to make a living.

Your overwhelming sense of entitlement is staggering. "I deserve things I don't pay for because " is just mind boggling.

Wow someone who never met me thinks I steal every game I play all because I made a anti DRM comment. Lets see if I support piracy and the mind set of "I deserve things I don't pay for" why do I own 70+ ds games(I can go count them if you want a perfect number), around 35 psp(and I recently bought Kingdom Hearts, Knights in Nightmare and ZHP for the psp) games, 67 PC games on steam alone(two are expansion packs though), around 20 ps3 games, at least 15 ps2 games that would cost 30+ to get used in a someone decent condition(Shin Megami Tensi, any Nippon Ichi Software, the .Hack games just too name my rarest series of games I have for it). Plus if you look at my xbox gamer tag you will see I have a 109 games play, now subtract 14 to get a rough idea on how many I own (I sold a few of them and I let a friend play a couple of games under my name). Yeah so am I a pirate? I mean I am not for DRM in any means because it's a scam to prevent you from selling a game you don't want anymore (project 10 dollar for example makes it so if I don't wanna lose money I have to buy it new).

Get off your high horse, and the video I showed was about how buying the game with DRM can cause you problem and he did mention having to buy the same game twice because he was told his disc was messed up by Securom. He showed you he had the disc, he showed you the two CD rom drives, and he showed you him running it before the crack. How did I miss the point when I am saying DRM is crap because it can assume you are stealing a game?

 

[Wicky_42]

Its just a stupid endless cycle, pirates pirate games hiding under the excuse that the DRM isn't worth the price of admission, but if they weren't pirating in the first place there would be no DRM, it had to start somewhere and publishes wouldn't have come up with DRM if there were no threat, logic dictates pirates are worse then DRM, because pirates create DRM.

Non-sense. Sharing games with friends has been a long-standing gaming tradition, but even if people hadn't worked out how to make copies (essentially just the next step from sharing) the current attitudes of publishers would still be to try and force everyone who wants to play to have their own copy - simple matter of squeezing the pennies that companies like to do.

The fact that it's so easy nowadays has just made it easier for companies to validate their position, though I don't believe that there's been any conclusive study showing that pirated games have done any worse than they would have otherwise - in fact, most big AAA titles have done great and been pirated. That should tell you something about how far out of proportion the publishers are blowing the issue.

Also, what happened to demos? There used to be tonnes of demos for all the main releases and more, but now it's just some of the fringe releases that bother. That's not good business if you're charging £50 for a luxury product that's easy to get for free...

 

[Anarchemitis]

Piracy results in DRM which results in Piracy.

Piracy fired the first shot.

 

[incal11]

Piracy results in DRM which results in Piracy.

Piracy fired the first shot.

...and, do you mean that makes it worse ? how ?
Actually this isn't true, with copyright enforcement being basically DRM and older than the internet.
On the other hand sharing is a natural behavior that was there since the dawn of man, it's not a behavior that would have survived if it wasn't good for us.

 

[Delusibeta]

While out of two, DRM is the bigger problem. However, an insignificant minority gives a damn about either, so nothing will change.

 

[direkiller]

DRM is the bigger problem. It usually punishes the people who actually pay for the game, and make it better in comparison for the pirates, thus giving people more incentive to pirate.

I've heard this defense thrown up by a friend of mine who pirates but you have to remember that DRM is there for a reason (usually because people have been pirating the game).

Picture this, if everyone who ever pirated in the world suddenly stopped, I can guarentee you that you'd see DRM and other such measures disappearing pretty quickly (it just simply wouldn't be nessercary, why waste time, money and effort on something that will never be used). If we suddenly saw a disappearance of DRM, however, I doubt that pirates would suddenly have a revalation and go legitimate.

This is a proverbial arms race between attackers (pirates) and defenders (DRM and anti-piracy measures), if your concern is really about getting rid of these silly and unessercary security measures then start showing that you can be trusted (trying to 'beat the system' rarely works).

It's no defense. Piracy is, and has always been, something I dislike.

However, I say that the DRM measure does very little to actually stop pirates.

DRM stops day 0 and day 1 piracy where the publisher makes most of there sales
As soon as the game is craked game sales drop

so yes DRM dose work

 

[direkiller]

DRM is the bigger problem. It usually punishes the people who actually pay for the game, and make it better in comparison for the pirates, thus giving people more incentive to pirate.

I've heard this defense thrown up by a friend of mine who pirates but you have to remember that DRM is there for a reason (usually because people have been pirating the game).

Picture this, if everyone who ever pirated in the world suddenly stopped, I can guarentee you that you'd see DRM and other such measures disappearing pretty quickly (it just simply wouldn't be nessercary, why waste time, money and effort on something that will never be used). If we suddenly saw a disappearance of DRM, however, I doubt that pirates would suddenly have a revalation and go legitimate.

This is a proverbial arms race between attackers (pirates) and defenders (DRM and anti-piracy measures), if your concern is really about getting rid of these silly and unessercary security measures then start showing that you can be trusted (trying to 'beat the system' rarely works).

It's no defense. Piracy is, and has always been, something I dislike.

However, I say that the DRM measure does very little to actually stop pirates.

DRM stops day 0 and day 1 piracy where the publisher makes most of there sales
As soon as the game is craked game sales drop

so yes DRM dose work

Then why don't they drop the DRM after day 0 and day 1?

first off Day 0 is before the launch date

and because the longer they delay the cracks the more people will just give up and buy the game

 

[direkiller]

DRM is the bigger problem. It usually punishes the people who actually pay for the game, and make it better in comparison for the pirates, thus giving people more incentive to pirate.

I've heard this defense thrown up by a friend of mine who pirates but you have to remember that DRM is there for a reason (usually because people have been pirating the game).

Picture this, if everyone who ever pirated in the world suddenly stopped, I can guarentee you that you'd see DRM and other such measures disappearing pretty quickly (it just simply wouldn't be nessercary, why waste time, money and effort on something that will never be used). If we suddenly saw a disappearance of DRM, however, I doubt that pirates would suddenly have a revalation and go legitimate.

This is a proverbial arms race between attackers (pirates) and defenders (DRM and anti-piracy measures), if your concern is really about getting rid of these silly and unessercary security measures then start showing that you can be trusted (trying to 'beat the system' rarely works).

It's no defense. Piracy is, and has always been, something I dislike.

However, I say that the DRM measure does very little to actually stop pirates.

DRM stops day 0 and day 1 piracy where the publisher makes most of there sales
As soon as the game is craked game sales drop

so yes DRM dose work

Then why don't they drop the DRM after day 0 and day 1?

first off Day 0 is before the launch date

and because the longer they delay the cracks the more people will just give up and buy the game

You really believe that? Do you really believe there are people sitting at home thinking: "If I can't pirate this game on launch day then I will go out and buy it"?

Nope, pirates are going to wait and normal customers aren't gonna care (till the DRM stops them from playing).

Alot of games are cracked before release and of the ones that aren't, it's only a few days or a weeks. Pirates are willing to wait.

So does the DRM stop pirates? No!

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html skip to page 8 read the rest
to put it bluntly your wrong

 

[Yureina]

Piracy does not affect me because I don't do it and I am not losing out on games (for now). DRM on the other hand annoys me, even if I have taken a liking to Steam. So... DRM gets my vote.

 

[Snotnarok]

DRM causes piracy, nuff said really.

 

[direkiller]

DRM is the bigger problem. It usually punishes the people who actually pay for the game, and make it better in comparison for the pirates, thus giving people more incentive to pirate.

I've heard this defense thrown up by a friend of mine who pirates but you have to remember that DRM is there for a reason (usually because people have been pirating the game).

Picture this, if everyone who ever pirated in the world suddenly stopped, I can guarentee you that you'd see DRM and other such measures disappearing pretty quickly (it just simply wouldn't be nessercary, why waste time, money and effort on something that will never be used). If we suddenly saw a disappearance of DRM, however, I doubt that pirates would suddenly have a revalation and go legitimate.

This is a proverbial arms race between attackers (pirates) and defenders (DRM and anti-piracy measures), if your concern is really about getting rid of these silly and unessercary security measures then start showing that you can be trusted (trying to 'beat the system' rarely works).

It's no defense. Piracy is, and has always been, something I dislike.

However, I say that the DRM measure does very little to actually stop pirates.

DRM stops day 0 and day 1 piracy where the publisher makes most of there sales
As soon as the game is craked game sales drop

so yes DRM dose work

Then why don't they drop the DRM after day 0 and day 1?

first off Day 0 is before the launch date

and because the longer they delay the cracks the more people will just give up and buy the game

You really believe that? Do you really believe there are people sitting at home thinking: "If I can't pirate this game on launch day then I will go out and buy it"?

Nope, pirates are going to wait and normal customers aren't gonna care (till the DRM stops them from playing).

Alot of games are cracked before release and of the ones that aren't, it's only a few days or a weeks. Pirates are willing to wait.

So does the DRM stop pirates? No!

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html skip to page 8 read the rest
to put it bluntly your wrong

I am not reading all that but do tell how one article proves me bluntly wrong?

because it provides proof of what im saying. You mind posting some for yours seeing you said im wrong without backing it up.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Error: OP's question does not make sense at all.

 

[Admiral Stukov]

They are both bad, piracy beeing the reason that DRM exists to begin with.
The problem is that DRM is often quite unsuccesful in preventing piracy, only delaying a cracked version by a month tops, while still beeing an absolute pain in the arse for legit customers.
So yeah I guess DRM takes the price.

 

[direkiller]

DRM is the bigger problem. It usually punishes the people who actually pay for the game, and make it better in comparison for the pirates, thus giving people more incentive to pirate.

I've heard this defense thrown up by a friend of mine who pirates but you have to remember that DRM is there for a reason (usually because people have been pirating the game).

Picture this, if everyone who ever pirated in the world suddenly stopped, I can guarentee you that you'd see DRM and other such measures disappearing pretty quickly (it just simply wouldn't be nessercary, why waste time, money and effort on something that will never be used). If we suddenly saw a disappearance of DRM, however, I doubt that pirates would suddenly have a revalation and go legitimate.

This is a proverbial arms race between attackers (pirates) and defenders (DRM and anti-piracy measures), if your concern is really about getting rid of these silly and unessercary security measures then start showing that you can be trusted (trying to 'beat the system' rarely works).

It's no defense. Piracy is, and has always been, something I dislike.

However, I say that the DRM measure does very little to actually stop pirates.

DRM stops day 0 and day 1 piracy where the publisher makes most of there sales
As soon as the game is craked game sales drop

so yes DRM dose work

Then why don't they drop the DRM after day 0 and day 1?

first off Day 0 is before the launch date

and because the longer they delay the cracks the more people will just give up and buy the game

You really believe that? Do you really believe there are people sitting at home thinking: "If I can't pirate this game on launch day then I will go out and buy it"?

Nope, pirates are going to wait and normal customers aren't gonna care (till the DRM stops them from playing).

Alot of games are cracked before release and of the ones that aren't, it's only a few days or a weeks. Pirates are willing to wait.

So does the DRM stop pirates? No!

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html skip to page 8 read the rest
to put it bluntly your wrong

I am not reading all that but do tell how one article proves me bluntly wrong?

because it provides proof of what im saying. You mind posting some for yours seeing you said im wrong without backing it up.

What proof? Someone's opinion?

I am just saying that I have never known anyone nor read anything on the internet that suggests that pirates are willing to buy a game just because it has DRM that isn't cracked before or on launch day.

No, I have no proof because I haven't polled pirates on this issue.

See theres your problem what i have facts backed up with number(if your bother to read).

Back up what you say it makes it so much more compelling