White Cop murders Black Person in their own home...AGAIN!

Abomination

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ObsidianJones said:
Silvanus said:
That's nowhere approaching a level playing field. If two people have guns, the one who has the element of surprise has an immense advantage-- so, the one who intends to attack. It's a far more level playing field if neither have guns than if both do.

than have the "trained professional" cops in the mix to kill us with impunity.
There's another way to deal with that, of course.
The term "Home-Field Advantage" is a term for a reason.

Element of Surprise is always countered with the Element of Knowledge. The deciding factor between the two is luck.

Element of Surprise. The situation is the same. A robber is outside the window and fires inward. Luck now comes into play. Does the Robber hit or does he not. If not, Element of Surprise is over. Now we shift to the Element of Knowledge. Home Field Advantage.

You know the lay out of the home, you know how to get to your weapon, you know how to barricade yourself inside. Luck comes into play again. Can you get to your fire arm? If yes, then the ball is definitely in your court. Luck still comes into play with your choices (Attack or Defend), but you still have the element of knowledge while the element of surprise has left.
You're assuming perfect reaction time of the person being surprised here.

Typically the first shot in any combat is the most decisive. A wounded individual's capacity to defend themselves drops significantly.

Who shoots first, especially when the other party is completely unaware of the shot taking place, far more often than not survives the conflict.

"Home fiend advantage" means diddly squat when you're not prepared for combat and your attacker is.
 

Smithnikov_v1legacy

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Silvanus said:
Smithnikov said:
And you Euros wonder why some of us Yanks do NOT trust cops and want to keep firearms for our own protection...
What good would the gun have possibly done in this situation? Fuck all.
Was talking more about why I have the mentality i have.
 

Smithnikov_v1legacy

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Dreiko said:
From what I read, someone just called on a wellness check cause her front door was open to let in some fresh air and this cop shot this lady who was playing videogames with her 8 year old nephew from outside her window, for some reason. I expect him to do a whole lot more than 10 years if convicted cause that's ridonculous.
Don't count on it. As someone pointed out, the defense is going to scour the victim's life and look for ANY drug use at any point or any facebook posts they think they can use to show this woman was a violent gangsta.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Abomination said:
You're assuming perfect reaction time of the person being surprised here.

Typically the first shot in any combat is the most decisive. A wounded individual's capacity to defend themselves drops significantly.

Who shoots first, especially when the other party is completely unaware of the shot taking place, far more often than not survives the conflict.

"Home fiend advantage" means diddly squat when you're not prepared for combat and your attacker is.
Likewise do you assume some inherent skill in the robber's side.

Have you shot a gun? Have you been shot at? Have you lived in an area where shootings happen often?

Sadly, these are a series of questions that I can answer yes to.

If you're acclimated to it, yes, your response and reaction time is heightened. You're not going to be Captain America, but you will drop the second you hear a shot.

I'm speaking as someone who had to be drilled on how to stay at my cousin's house. And who survived several drive-bys. There wasn't "Cloudy, with a high chance of drive-bys today". It was going to the corner store to get an Icey, and then dropping the second a loud sound happened and flattening myself against a concrete pillar. I wasn't even a teen then. And I saw people literally 4 times my age doing the same thing when they were just trying to get food for themselves.

Shooting a gun is not an easy event. You are trying to tame an explosion. It's something that can be done reliably only by training. This is a perfect example of the randomness [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_qzhfpk4k] of it. One person got a bullseye the first time. Another missed the paper. Someone after that completely took his hand off the gun after the gun was fired (sadly, he was the guy who just bought a gun 6 months prior). If you have no training, the element of surprise means nothing. If you don't know how to properly handle a gun, hitting where you want is just about luck.

Again, this is why I keep talking about training. Having a tool is not the same as being prepared for combat. That's like all these weirdos who store up guns hoping for the zombie apocalypse because they want to be Daryl. You have the tools. That doesn't mean you know how to use them.

Do those zombie fetishists have the cardio to survive? The ability to scourge for food or grow it if need by? Do they have any other protection or resources other than guns? No? They just want to live out a power fantasy? Wonderful for them... won't help them in the slightest if a real emergency happens.

It's akin to a guy insisting on bringing a parachute on every flight he goes on, but never took a skydiving course... and today just happens to be the day that the plane is going down.

His chances of surviving are infinitely better than people without the parachute. But he has to be lucky to make it work if he never bothered to learn how to operate it.

To your point, tools mean diddly squat if you don't know how to use them. By the way, that goes both ways. Having a gun for protection means nothing if you don't know how to use it to protect yourself. And even then, it's just a matter of luck. Like I said. All we're doing is increasing the odds.
 

Abomination

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ObsidianJones said:
Likewise do you assume some inherent skill in the robber's side.
In this scenario, the "robber" was a police officer trained in the use of the firearm.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Abomination said:
ObsidianJones said:
Likewise do you assume some inherent skill in the robber's side.
In this scenario, the "robber" was a police officer trained in the use of the firearm.
... Holy Shirt, I was talking to you and not Silvanus.

Anyway, when we talked about the subject prior, Silvanus said if "two people have guns". So I crafted the scenario where there would be no overt skill advantage, and just made it the Element of Surprise and the Element of Knowledge.

If you looked at my first response to Silvanus [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/707.1057486.24321192], I was stating that why a good deal of us would rather have gun and train to take care of ourselves is because there is a history of the police killing those they were sent to protect.

You're right, though. The actual situation involved a Police Officer. Which makes it all the more frightening. There are rules, there is protocol. There are ways to handle approaching a potential situation where there might be an assailant in an enclosed area with unknown amount of dangers.

This man showed none of that. Even fellow police officers are stating his tactics were not up to snuff and must be looked over, if you read the link I provided.

Police have not named the officer, who joined the department in April 2018. He has been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an investigation.

"The officer did not announce that he was a police officer prior to shooting," Lt. Brandon O'Neil told reporters Sunday. "What the officer observed, and why he did not announce 'police,' will be addressed as the investigation continues."
 

Trunkage

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Specter Von Baren said:
Police Officer, Joseph Shinners killed on January 5th, 2019. Cause was gunfire.

Police Officer, Dale Woods killed on January 7th, 2019. Cause was being struck by a vehicle.

Police Officer, Clayton Townsen, killed on January 8th, 2019. Cause was being struck by a vehicle.

Police Officer, Natalie Corona killed on January 10th, 2019. Cause was gunfire.

Police Officer, Christopher Lambert, killed on January 12th, 2019. Cause was vehicular assault.

Police Officer, Wytasha Carter, killed on January 13th, 2019. Cause was gunfire.

And on and on and on it goes.

Looking at the Washington Post's database of the number of people killed BY police officers, white people are always double that of black people and are always the majority.
So... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty_in_the_United_States

I assume you go that from this. This list you presented was meant to be ominous. It doesn't say how these officers died. For example. struck by vehicle is likely an accident. But vehicular assault is likely murder. Gunfire can include friendly fire or accidently shooting themselves. I didn't see any suicides so I don't know if they fit into the figure. I know drug related deaths and misconduct are disqualified from this list but I don't know about suicide. potentially, gunfire could include killing themselves.

Things to note from this page. This is deaths in the line of duty. eg. 2011 had 69 killed while doing their duty, while 53 died in accidents while on duty. So, some were accidents, some were heart attacks (not counted in that 53). 2017 had 44 shot police. The highest total deahts is 187. There are over 900,000 law enforcement officers across America. So the death rate of 0.00021%. That's 2 in every ten thousand. At its peak. This is total deaths, not being shot.

The number of shot police making that total is up from 2013. So there could be cause of concern. Now, if had been reading the news, Sovereign Citizen types have been killing a bunch of police officers. Which could explain this discrepancy. But I don't have any data on this.

https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2019

This is where they get their data from. Just looking at the list... there are a quite few 9/11 illness related deaths. Also, it has canine deaths, and quite a few are from heat exhaustion, likely from leaving them in a car. Which is fucking awful. I hope their owners go to jail
 

Abomination

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ObsidianJones said:
Abomination said:
ObsidianJones said:
Likewise do you assume some inherent skill in the robber's side.
In this scenario, the "robber" was a police officer trained in the use of the firearm.
Anyway, when we talked about the subject prior, Silvanus said if "two people have guns". So I crafted the scenario where there would be no overt skill advantage, and just made it the Element of Surprise and the Element of Knowledge.
In the scenario where one person surprises the other, I'd still much rather be the person doing the surprising than be the one being surprised.

The best way to win a fight is to start a fight. Because you have engaged on your terms. If the terms are not favorable, you have the choice of simply not engaging. Your target has no such option. This is why both sides having a firearm does not introduce a level of balance because the first shot matters the most.

A person with a gun that is shot while surprised is shot just as hard as a person without a gun that is shot while surprised. We're also going beyond a "robber" scenario here and into an "assassination" scenario here.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Abomination said:
In the scenario where one person surprises the other, I'd still much rather be the person doing the surprising than be the one being surprised.

The best way to win a fight is to start a fight. Because you have engaged on your terms. If the terms are not favorable, you have the choice of simply not engaging. Your target has no such option. This is why both sides having a firearm does not introduce a level of balance because the first shot matters the most.

A person with a gun that is shot while surprised is shot just as hard as a person without a gun that is shot while surprised. We're also going beyond a "robber" scenario here and into an "assassination" scenario here.
The best way to win a fight is to be prepared for a fight. Surprise is an initial advantage that can only be maintained against a woefully unprepared enemy.

You're never going to change my mind about this. I literally just got done telling you the only reason I'm here today is because I prepared for something I can never plan for, and I followed my training more than five times in my life. I wasn't even apart of any of these groups, but I was still dodging bullets anyway.