Who Gets to be Awesome in Games? [GMTK]

Dwarvenhobble

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Yes, that particular mode was way too easy. As in "if you were having problems with normal mode, this particular easy mode goes way too far, making the gap between the two too wide, in my opinion."

You also didn't answer the "if the easy mode is still a challenge, then how does it hurt the "Dark Souls should be challenging as part of the game"" question.
Because such a mode would only be truly accessible without death and the risk mechanics of Dark Souls. In such a super easy mode there would be no worry over bonfires respawning enemies when you rest to recover because you'd never need to actually rest to recover in such a mode as any peril or death would make it inaccessible.

Easy mode that is accessible to all will by necessity have to be a giant difference between it and Normal mode. That is why Easy mode is NOT the solution.

Almost all media has some level of skill requirements you just likely didn't realise you were learning the skills. With films you have to recognise and understand certain film tropes and conventions which allow some level of short cutting the story. When film were first invented and being shown they had to teach people to understand the train on screen wasn't about to come out and run them over for example. Some people still struggle to use their TV remotes but to engage with TV that is a basic requirement.


Because I've played a fair bit of Monster Hunter. Dark Souls is, thus, not particularly challenging outside of specific systems knowledge. Am I playing Dark Souls wrong because I don't think it's any more challenging than Monster Hunter?
What's the harm in Europa Universalis having an optional easy mode?
There's no harm in the easy mode other than the obvious fact to have an easy mode that is truly fully inclusive it would have to be a 1 button click auto playing game almost. You know an idle clicker or the like. Part of what makes Europa Universalis have appeal to people is the sheer depth to the game, learning all the systems and how to actually work them. The reason people play such a game is for the depth and challenge of it.

So my question again is why must people play Dark Souls? Could they not play any other number of medieval fantasy games?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Because such a mode would only be truly accessible without death and the risk mechanics of Dark Souls. In such a super easy mode there would be no worry over bonfires respawning enemies when you rest to recover because you'd never need to actually rest to recover in such a mode as any peril or death would make it inaccessible.

Easy mode that is accessible to all will by necessity have to be a giant difference between it and Normal mode. That is why Easy mode is NOT the solution.
Ahh, so we're going with "if it can't fix literally everything, it's harmful to do anything"
Almost all media has some level of skill requirements you just likely didn't realise you were learning the skills. With films you have to recognise and understand certain film tropes and conventions which allow some level of short cutting the story. When film were first invented and being shown they had to teach people to understand the train on screen wasn't about to come out and run them over for example. Some people still struggle to use their TV remotes but to engage with TV that is a basic requirement.
Yeah, I've seen Old People Remotes. Turns out they make easy mode remote controls
There's no harm in the easy mode other than the obvious fact to have an easy mode that is truly fully inclusive it would have to be a 1 button click auto playing game almost. You know an idle clicker or the like. Part of what makes Europa Universalis have appeal to people is the sheer depth to the game, learning all the systems and how to actually work them. The reason people play such a game is for the depth and challenge of it.
And they can do that. Nobody, literally nobody, is saying "only make an easy mode"
So my question again is why must people play Dark Souls? Could they not play any other number of medieval fantasy games?
Okay, what else we got for "dark, nihilistic fantasy horror action game"?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Ahh, so we're going with "if it can't fix literally everything, it's harmful to do anything"
No I'm going with the fix you seem to want won't fix the actual issues and will likely be the worst solution.

Accessibility options are what is needed not some mythical easy mode designed so some-ones non gaming Gran can beat Dark Souls.

Yeah, I've seen Old People Remotes. Turns out they make easy mode remote controls
Yes, mostly they're sold in accessibility shops. You know to help people with accessibility issues. It doesn't make the TV watching itself and understand things easier.

And they can do that. Nobody, literally nobody, is saying "only make an easy mode"
Yet some people seem to be focussing on this as a way to fix the problems and calling for it out of belief it will solve everything. You know what companies love? Not having to spend money. So a company can and will just stuff in a super easy anyone can beat it mode and call it a day. Then some idiots will whoop about how they're getting super easy mode and give it good press with no-one until later on realising there aren't accessibility features and such a mode IS such a huge change from normal mode.

Okay, what else we got for "dark, nihilistic fantasy horror action game"?
Betrayer maybe?

Darkest Dungeon likely counts just about as part of that genre though it's not an action game too

The Darksiders franchise.
 

Xprimentyl

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Oh, yay. THIS "discussion" again.

Let me guess: some are advocating that "Easy" options are fine and don't affect the core Normal/Hard gaming experience sought by "real" gamers, and others are advocating that "Easy" options fly in the face of developers' intended vision of their game, proclaiming that every game need not be for everybody, and then straw-maning by presuming the former is somehow insisting that every game NEEDS Easy options?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Oh, yay. THIS "discussion" again.

Let me guess: some are advocating that "Easy" options are fine and don't affect the core Normal/Hard gaming experience sought by "real" gamers, and others are advocating that "Easy" options fly in the face of developers' intended vision of their game, proclaiming that every game need not be for everybody, and then straw-maning by presuming the former is somehow insisting that every game NEEDS Easy options?
Except the later part isn't a straw man because well known hard game series Dark Souls is seeing people call for an easy mode in it lol
 

Phoenixmgs

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So my question again is why must people play Dark Souls? Could they not play any other number of medieval fantasy games?
Dark Souls is pretty unique and the best parts of it ain't combat, the combat is extremely mediocre in the Souls games IMO. If someone is interested in the other aspects of the game, then let them enjoy it with less emphasis on combat and they could grow to dig it. I don't get why people get upset over this kinda stuff then praise how awesome PC gaming is because of mods. Guess what mods let you do? Play the game in a manner that wasn't intended by the developer. I played Divinity Original Sin 2 with armor completely retooled by the Divinity Unleashed mod that was totally not how Larian intended people to play the game. God strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who have 100s of Skyrim mods too.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Dark Souls is pretty unique and the best parts of it ain't combat, the combat is extremely mediocre in the Souls games IMO. If someone is interested in the other aspects of the game, then let them enjoy it with less emphasis on combat and they could grow to dig it. I don't get why people get upset over this kinda stuff then praise how awesome PC gaming is because of mods. Guess what mods let you do? Play the game in a manner that wasn't intended by the developer. I played Divinity Original Sin 2 with armor completely retooled by the Divinity Unleashed mod that was totally not how Larian intended people to play the game. God strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who have 100s of Skyrim mods too.
Easy mode has no real combat, at least the enemies can't fight back. Otherwise it's not accessible to all.

As for Mods......... I'll answer boobies as my guess.