Why all the hate on FFVII?

Recommended Videos

Azure-Supernova

La-li-lu-le-lo!
Aug 5, 2009
3,024
0
0
I like Final Fantasy VII.

It was my introduction to the series (as a kid I didn't get to choose which games I got for the NES and SNES). So upon getting a PlayStation my first interaction with a real RPG was Final Fantasy VII. It was fresh, new and I'd seen nothing like it. And now I've explored the series fully I can say I still like it, but I've found that other titles are better in terms of gameplay, usually the pre-VII ones.

Final Fantasy X was the last game I completed thoroughly and I didn't enjoy it. Yet I can return to any other FF title and play instantly, mostly VII because it holds nice memories for me. I can associate stages in the game to the times in my life I played them.
 

justforonethread

New member
Feb 27, 2011
3
0
0
Hi. Made an account and wrote the following for an hour and a half.

I really, really don't like FFVII. After thinking long and hard, it just boils down to: it was no good compared to the FF I played before that, III/VI.

I haven't played either game since they each originally came out, so here's what I remember:

Music:

VI had orchestral tunes. So many different styles and varieties. Beautiful and each character had a recognizable tune.

With VII, we'd jumped to CD technology and the music became very simple MIDI with all-synth. No variety. Not even decent MIDI instruments! It was like Nobuo Uematsu decided he'd already done his best work, so decided to take a nap. (And yet I hear people bother to make SoundFonts to make the PC version sound exactly as crappy as the PSX version.)

Graphics:

VI had beautiful, lush colors everywhere. SD characters were a standard since you could only have so many pixels in a sprite at that resolution.

VII: Washed-out backgrounds. It was confusing where you were sometimes, so they even had a little arrow to show you where you were.

Character models were awful. Since it was 3D, there was no real need for SD.

Characters:

VI had a huge roster of characters, and each was easily recognizable from the other by color, music, and attitude. In combat, everyone had their own special abilities that differentiated them. Sabin had his Street Fighter-style attacks. Relm painted, Edgar had his sword charges, etc.

VII: A handful of characters who play about the same except for summons (whatever they were called). I remember when I got Yuffie, I gave her a try to see what she could steal and she kept failing to steal over and over and over.

Story progression:

VI was epic. You slowly build up your party, gaining in strength, then when you get to the big boss, bang, he goes and destroys the world. I thought that was a pretty mean thing to do.

VII: Well, I don't remember very much about it. Something about Soldiers? Avalanche being a scrappy band of rebels. Jenova, Sephiroth, something something. I actually didn't finish because after putting in I don't know how many hours, my third-party card ate my save. (Hey, I didn't buy 3rd party memory cards after that!) I was already on Disc 2, so I figure I gave it a fair shake.

Other bits:

VI: 4 character party
VII: 3 character party

VI: 2 player mode!
VII: No.

VII made HP virtually meaningless. Back in the day, playing D&D or older FF and having double digit HP was fantastic. Then VII came with its over-the-top "You don't start at level 1" and "Here's a few hundred HP." Then soon there were bosses where you'd blast them with what, 9999 damage and it would kind of yawn at you? Or meters that didn't move when you hit them? What's the point of HP counters or meters?

But one of the most irritating things about FFVII? The loading. Square went on to make quite a lot of PlayStation games that took forever to load, some of which even took ages to simply show the menu?But to sit there and have the screen go fuzzy and swirl about, then queue the music, then slowly load each character?before finally letting you beat up on even the simplest enemy?
Imagine going from instant map to fight transitions to that! Also, since FF has been so random-combat heavy, there were times when you spent longer waiting for combat to load than you did actually fighting. >_<

It was so boring.

Yeah, I was not very fond of it after a dozen or so hours.

So, I played II/IV and it was cool. Then I played III/VI and it blew II/IV away in pretty much every aspect. I was shocked both of those games could have been released on the same system; there was such a jump.

We went from the pinnacle of the genre, finely tuned in all aspects on the Super NES?to a slow, sloppy mess.

I was really excited when FFVII came out. I got home from the shop and started playing immediately, but gradually, I began to realize I'd blown my money and I was most unhappy.

Ah, forgot to mention cut-scenes. Those was neat. But FMV in games never impresses me.

I notice a lot of people who glowingly refer back to FFVII talk a lot about story and er, Tifa. Some people point out how poignant Aerith's death was, but on that point, that didn't hit me nearly as hard as Palom & Porom's sacrifice or Tellah's death in II/IV.

But in the end, games are games and no amount of sparkly FMVs will cover up the fact that coming from III/VI, I was disappointed by production values overall and most importantly, didn't have any fun sitting around waiting to mash a button for samey-playing characters over synth music repeatedly.

On the plus side, it did change Sony's mind about not allowing RPGs stateside but that has nothing to do with FFVII as a game.
 

Osaka117

New member
Feb 20, 2011
321
0
0
Ive never played it or any FF game, and I probably won't because of my large dislike of JRPGs...however if for some reason it just falls on my lap and I have literally nothing else to do, I might check it out just to see what the big fuss is about.
 

mkg

New member
Feb 24, 2009
315
0
0
I liked FFVII. But the mother complex is pretty heavy-handed with Sephiroth.
 

dWintermut3

New member
Jan 14, 2010
60
0
0
I think FFVII was the pinnacle of the series (well Tactics was close but it wasn't in the same genre so I'll punt on picking one or the other).

It was very... different though. The Materia system, the introduction of sometimes interminable cutscenes, a plot that was a lot more complex than any game in the series before. It was also not really set in a fantasy world. It was set in some sort of dystopic cyberpunk-meet-steampunk-meet-high fantasy mess that never really felt that coherent even if it was visually stunning and a heck of a lot of fun to play around in.
 

Akihiko

Raincoat Killer
Aug 21, 2008
952
0
0
I don't hate it, but I do believe it's over-rated. People seem to put it on a pedastool, and I don't think it deserves it. I'm not singling out against just FF7 either, it's the same with OOT. Neither of them deserve the popularity. By no means am I saying they're bad games, just not as great as they make them out to be.
 

Ickorus

New member
Mar 9, 2009
2,886
0
0
I liked FF7 when it came out but it wasn't nearly as great as the fanboys would make it out to be.

It's the same as with anime really, you get some people that claim anime is the most superior form of show around and will constantly annoy everyone else about it and so those people that are outside of these circles don't want to even be remotely connected to those people that annoy the fuck out of them.

Fanboys - Bane of their own love.
 

Defense

New member
Oct 20, 2010
869
0
0
justforonethread said:
Hi. Made an account and wrote the following for an hour and a half.

I really, really don't like FFVII. After thinking long and hard, it just boils down to: it was no good compared to the FF I played before that, III/VI.

I haven't played either game since they each originally came out, so here's what I remember:

Music:

VI had orchestral tunes. So many different styles and varieties. Beautiful and each character had a recognizable tune.

With VII, we'd jumped to CD technology and the music became very simple MIDI with all-synth. No variety. Not even decent MIDI instruments! It was like Nobuo Uematsu decided he'd already done his best work, so decided to take a nap. (And yet I hear people bother to make SoundFonts to make the PC version sound exactly as crappy as the PSX version.)
It shouldn't matter what was used to make it, just as long as it actually sounds good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF32DRg9opA
Would you call that bad just because the number of sounds were limited?

Graphics:

VI had beautiful, lush colors everywhere. SD characters were a standard since you could only have so many pixels in a sprite at that resolution.

VII: Washed-out backgrounds. It was confusing where you were sometimes, so they even had a little arrow to show you where you were.

Character models were awful. Since it was 3D, there was no real need for SD.
The move from 2D to 3D is a large one. Not many other console games did it at the time so doing it was difficult.


VI was epic. You slowly build up your party, gaining in strength, then when you get to the big boss, bang, he goes and destroys the world. I thought that was a pretty mean thing to do.

VII: Well, I don't remember very much about it. Something about Soldiers? Avalanche being a scrappy band of rebels. Jenova, Sephiroth, something something. I actually didn't finish because after putting in I don't know how many hours, my third-party card ate my save. (Hey, I didn't buy 3rd party memory cards after that!) I was already on Disc 2, so I figure I gave it a fair shake.
Confusing&#8800;bad. Final Fantasy VI had a very basic plot of "kill the emperor with your rebel base because he's a dick", but it did a spectacular twist to "kill god because he's a dick".

VI: 4 character party
VII: 3 character party
Agreed, but Final Fantasy IV had a 5 character party.

VI: 2 player mode!
VII: No.
wat.

Osaka117 said:
Ive never played it or any FF game, and I probably won't because of my large dislike of JRPGs...however if for some reason it just falls on my lap and I have literally nothing else to do, I might check it out just to see what the big fuss is about.
Final Fantasy VI has a much more likable cast than Persona 3, from what I've played. But I'm only in December. Not gonna say anything about VII myself.
 

DeadProxy

New member
Sep 15, 2010
359
0
0
FalloutJack said:
GiantRaven said:
It's cool to hate things that are popular.
Hating things just to be popular has never been popular. If you want to hate something, hate it for a reason.

I don't hate Final Fantasy 7. It was my introduction to the series and Square's introduction into the Playstation era. I enjoyed the plot, the characters were mostly decent, and I definitely got replay value out of it.

I DO hate Final Fantasy 8, which I have rants on that warrant spoiler tabs with the caption "WARNING: WALL OF TEXT INSIDE". I have reasons to hate things, not because it's the 'in' thing.
o_O have you ever been to school? people hate people/things for no reason all the time

Btw i've always loved ff7
 

Retosa

New member
Jul 10, 2010
107
0
0
I enjoyed FFVII, but the fact that it was way too easy to get overpowered in the game made it kinda boring for the end. An end boss that you can kill at lvl 49 without any problems just kinda... 'eh. I mean, FFV you had to be lvl 55+, and even then it was an interesting fight. (I still found it kinda easy, but then again I used and abused Time Magic with my casters, and was dealing out ridiculous damage with my physical attackers).

Also, Kefka is the most epic FF villain ever. Insane clownman ftw! :D
 

justforonethread

New member
Feb 27, 2011
3
0
0
It shouldn't matter what was used to make it, just as long as it actually sounds good.
This is true. But there was a huge progression from IV -> VI, and then VI -> regressed off a cliff, with fancy new CD technology.

Would you call that bad just because the number of sounds were limited?
Nah, I like 8-bit tunes and understand the modern trend to have that kind of thing these days since it's manageable to do for small devs.

Duck Tales' OST is a product of its time as well.

But when VII came out, I was appalled at the drop from VI to VII. Wasn't CD technology supposed to allow for bigger & better samples? You're telling me they crammed such good instruments into a cart and then didn't have enough space on a CD for something even as good?

The move from 2D to 3D is a large one. Not many other console games did it at the time so doing it was difficult.
While there are those who applaud effort, just because you do something hard doesn't mean it should be commended.

If I burned a souffle, would you laud me just for trying?

Confusing&#8800;bad. Final Fantasy VI had a very basic plot of "kill the emperor with your rebel base because he's a dick", but it did a spectacular twist to "kill god because he's a dick".
Oh, I didn't say VII was confusing. It might be. I just don't very much of it; that's how much of an impression it made on me. Also I had to put something in about story progression. :\

Agreed, but Final Fantasy IV had a 5 character party.
Hmm.

Ah, I see, on page 49, 5 people. Cor blimey. It's been a while, Cecil. You have a funny hat.
...
So, I see there was a drop from IV -> VI. (Bad, VI!) But to get another drop?

By that decreasing standard, we should be happy if we got to control a single character by the time XI rolled around!


VI: 2 player mode!
VII: No.


Page 29 (Config Screen):
Controller: "While Final Fantasy III is generally a single-player game, you can use the Controller option to set the game up for use with two controllers in fighting scenes. The multi-controller feature allows you to assign individual fighters to Controller 1 or Controller 2."

Didn't you play with friends/siblings? Not exactly a difficult feature to implement. :\


Final Fantasy VI has a much more likable cast than Persona 3, from what I've played. But I'm only in December. Not gonna say anything about VII myself.
I'm not that far in P3 myself.
And I'm playing in Japanese, so that's also a bit of a hurdle.
Wait, you're not going to say anything about VII? Why not?
 

Defense

New member
Oct 20, 2010
869
0
0
Retosa said:
I enjoyed FFVII, but the fact that it was way too easy to get overpowered in the game made it kinda boring for the end. An end boss that you can kill at lvl 49 without any problems just kinda... 'eh. I mean, FFV you had to be lvl 55+, and even then it was an interesting fight. (I still found it kinda easy, but then again I used and abused Time Magic with my casters, and was dealing out ridiculous damage with my physical attackers).

Also, Kefka is the most epic FF villain ever. Insane clownman ftw! :D
To be completely fair, quite a few Final Fantasy games can be exploited so easily.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5NPjsL8Qg

Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X are just as easy to exploit as well, if I recall correctly.
 

Staskala

New member
Sep 28, 2010
537
0
0
GiantRaven said:
It's cool to hate things that are popular.
Old argument, simple explanation:

People look at a popular game, look at the fandom and decide that clearly, with such a fandom, the game must be shit.
With the mountains of praise FFVII gets, a lot of people decide to be the very antithesis, somehow outweighting the undeserved love by equally undeserved hatred.

It's really not about being cool, rebellious or just not mainstream, it's just a way to distance oneself from a particular and usually very vocal fandom.
I bet quite a few people liked FFVII and did a 180 once they looked up videos on youtube.
Because if they liked the game, they would be in the same group as those people.
One might call this wanting to be "cool, rebellious or just not mainstream", but I think the underlying reasons are different.
More of a self-esteem issue than anything else really.

It's easily the dumbest internet phenomenon there is, which will probably continue for all eternity.
Oh, how great would a world be where noone uttered the words "Hater" or "Fanboy", where an opinion would be just that and not some arbitrary affiliation outing...

Oh yeah, the game:
Neither the best game ever nor the best in the series, but still a solid title, I liked it.
Number 4 in my FF ranking.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
15,485
0
0
DeadProxy said:
FalloutJack said:
GiantRaven said:
It's cool to hate things that are popular.
Hating things just to be popular has never been popular. If you want to hate something, hate it for a reason.

I don't hate Final Fantasy 7. It was my introduction to the series and Square's introduction into the Playstation era. I enjoyed the plot, the characters were mostly decent, and I definitely got replay value out of it.

I DO hate Final Fantasy 8, which I have rants on that warrant spoiler tabs with the caption "WARNING: WALL OF TEXT INSIDE". I have reasons to hate things, not because it's the 'in' thing.
o_O have you ever been to school? people hate people/things for no reason all the time
*Glares*

Doesn't even count.
 

Defense

New member
Oct 20, 2010
869
0
0
justforonethread said:
This is true. But there was a huge progression from IV -> VI, and then VI -> regressed off a cliff, with fancy new CD technology.
That's expected when you make such a huge move.
Nah, I like 8-bit tunes and understand the modern trend to have that kind of thing these days since it's manageable to do for small devs.

Duck Tales' OST is a product of its time as well.

But when VII came out, I was appalled at the drop from VI to VII. Wasn't CD technology supposed to allow for bigger & better samples? You're telling me they crammed such good instruments into a cart and then didn't have enough space on a CD for something even as good?
CDs were explored much less than carts in video games, so of course there's less knowledge about CDs.
While there are those who applaud effort, just because you do something hard doesn't mean it should be commended.

If I burned a souffle, would you laud me just for trying?
But there are clear ingredients to make a souffle, if you knew the steps then you shouldn't fail in making said souffle. Like I said, 3D wasn't a well explored concept back in the day. Yeah, it aged horribly, but that happens with everything when it's just being explored. Final Fantasy I on the NES is as ugly as sin, but it's supposed to be expected when your competitors are two lines and a dot and a text screen.
(for lack of a better comparison)


Page 29 (Config Screen):
Controller: "While Final Fantasy III is generally a single-player game, you can use the Controller option to set the game up for use with two controllers in fighting scenes. The multi-controller feature allows you to assign individual fighters to Controller 1 or Controller 2."

Didn't you play with friends/siblings? Not exactly a difficult feature to implement. :\
RPGs always seemed like more of a single-player experience to me. I never thought it was that big of a deal to have a 2-player option, it's akin to just handing your partner the controller or asking him what you should do with Rafa or Malak.

I'm not that far in P3 myself.
And I'm playing in Japanese, so that's also a bit of a hurdle.
Wait, you're not going to say anything about VII? Why not?
Because the FF community is more torn on opinions of VII. There are people who hated the whole cast, and there were people who liked almost everyone, with the exception of Cait Sith or Yuffie.
 

Zaik

New member
Jul 20, 2009
2,073
0
0
The vocal minority is so vocal about it because most people that really really really really really really like FF7 are looking at it through nostalgia goggles, rather than actually judging it based on it's merits and flaws. It was a really good game at the time. It certainly wasn't perfect though, and going back to play it again years and years later made me realize that.
 

Moc

New member
Sep 13, 2010
78
0
0
Well, I see why people like the game, but I never found a way to play it, too young and the graphics hindered me from saying: " Lets go!"
 

justforonethread

New member
Feb 27, 2011
3
0
0
That's expected when you make such a huge move.
That doesn't make any sense. Red book audio. Or just use the space like space was used before: for good samples. 

CDs were explored much less than carts in video games, so of course there's less knowledge about CDs.
Space = space. Other than that, it affects loading time and sync but come on, this is music we're talking about here.

But there are clear ingredients to make a souffle, if you knew the steps then you shouldn't fail in making said souffle. Like I said, 3D wasn't a well explored concept back in the day.
Then they could have stayed with the basic recipe (replaced sprites with polygons and not messed with crazy angles until they understood how the new oven worked). If I don't get a pass for screwing up my souffle with pickles and fudge, neither does Square.

Yeah, it aged horribly, but that happens with everything when it's just being explored. Final Fantasy I on the NES is as ugly as sin, but it's supposed to be expected when your competitors are two lines and a dot and a text screen.
(for lack of a better comparison)
Irrelevant to me but that sounds like people remembering it being better than it was.
Kind of like how when Goldeneye came out on N64 and people asked me to play but I said I couldn't because the framerate hurt my eyes and when people go back to look at it now, they also say the framerate hurts their eyes. 

Remember, though, I didn't like VII the year it was released.

RPGs always seemed like more of a single-player experience to me. I never thought it was that big of a deal to have a 2-player option, it's akin to just handing your partner the controller or asking him what you should do with Rafa or Malak.
Why have a 2-player mode in Super Mario Bros (1)?

It's more fun to say this is MY character than toss the controller back and forth.

I'm not that far in P3 myself.

Because the FF community is more torn on opinions of VII. There are people who hated the whole cast, and there were people who liked almost everyone, with the exception of Cait Sith or Yuffie.
I believe that's the generational thing people talk about.

But I hope someone reading this thread understands that there were many disappointing aspects to VII as a game (not brand or phenomenon), and it is not a simple, smug "haters gotta hate."

For people who played VII first or were too young to play at least VI in its time if not IV + VI, the warm memories will be hard to ignore.