Why are all the "bad guys" "cooler" nowadays?

[Racecarlock]

Let's be honest. What would you do if you had superpowers? Devote yourself to taking small time criminals off the street late every night and early every morning while also saving cats and donating to charity, or fuck around and destroy shit? "With great power comes great responsibilty." Unless he's talking about political power that's complete bullshit. Spiderman could have easily just used his powers to jump around and off of buildings all day or to take the mayor hostage. It's just that his personality didn't allow for it or something. The only motivation for not going on a killing spree being that he'd be killing unique, innocent individuals. With that gone, there's even less motivation to spare people in sandbox games because you know you're going to kill a pedestrian only for his clone to walk around the corner and get killed again. Who the hell wants to be responsible for their actions unless it's actually relevant to the story (screw the RDR honor system, i'm going to say that right now)? As for why we cheer for villains, it's because they have an excuse to be an unlikeable douche. However, more and more things have made the hero extremely unlikeable, sometimes to the point where you just want the bad guy to kill him already so you don't have to hear another line out of his smug prick mouth.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Another reason is that the hero always winning and good always triumphing is a little tired. Sometimes it's just fun in a game world to throw in a little chaos and thumb your teeth at the hero after you nick his wallet and mess up his hair.

Has the OP never wondered what 24 would have been like if Jack Bauer had been 30 seconds too late? Or if Bond was simply shot instead of engaged in pithy conversation? Maybe the villain is justified in their desire for unbridled revenge? Maybe their idea on the "greater good" genuinely has merit? It would be great to see and play those stories too, for varieties sake. I've saved the world from alien invasions enough times, why can't I be the alien doing the invading (Destroy All Humans tried this actually)? I've defeated enough demons, why can I not for once be the demon (and not Overlord style).

How about instead of playing Isaac Clarke in DS2, the player was a sentient necromorph with cool, organic weapons and we get to take over the colony, fighting against the defence forces? The assassin's guild quests in Oblivion were phenomenally good. Thief and Hitman are fantastic games. More. Like. Those.

Yathtzee has one thing right on this subject though. Making being an evil tyrant a viable option defeats the purpose and fun of being one. If it's just as valid a choice as being heroic, it's simply a different option and not a moral one. Oblivion has the right of this. I can gain fame and infamy. I can steal and profit, but if I'm caught I'm attacked, shunned, arrested. Traders won't trade with you, people run in fear from you. Then I can reload an earlier save and sigh wistfully.

 

[teebeeohh]

because having two assholes who are morally grey is usually a lot more fun than a straight up good/evil thing. Except that this has been done to death inadequately and now we are getting sick of that.
also, bad guys don't have to follow the rules, and when i already have to follow a bunch of rules in real life and like to just dick around in my free time.

 

[shrub231]

another thing with the whole villians are cool, is because we don't really have any real villians in the world. the worlds major powers are all supposed to be good guys so no one who is bad is powerful enough to be considered a real threat. guy pops up somewhere that looks threatening bam, shot in the head dumped in the ocean thats the end of it. thats why games nowadays focus on the good old villians of yesteryear, and make them seem appealing.

 

[Frybird]

The problem with the "good side", both in many games and many movies (Action/Sci-Fi/Fantasy at least), is that the good side is usually just.so.bland.

If a character is restricted to just always do the right thing, he usually is very boring. And usually, the only thing to make a good guy more interesting is to inject a little bit of "Evil" into him, be it because he is haunted by something evil he did in the past, because his definition of "good" and "right" goes to rather extreme levels...

...Or, in many cases, because the supposed good guy doesn't play by the rules of being good. Like Batman, who is an agressive vigilante, Han Solo, because he is a petty criminal who happens to have a good moral compass, Mal Reynolds because he is not above doing "evil" things like shooting unarmed people, or Captain Jack Sparrow, because, well, he is only really "good" in the rarest of situations.

Turning the Good Guy into an Anti Hero, or at least, a flawed person, makes him unpredictable, in many cases more human and therefore, more fun to watch.


But if the Good Guy is just nothing more than a bland "Goody Two Shoes" Type, the side of evil tends to be more fun to watch, especially if the Bad Guy is not just Evil for Evils sake.

 

[JakBandit2208]

Long story short, people love drama and a villains back story is usually filled with it.

 

[snyper117]

Come on people what would YOU do if you had super powers? would you become a super hero listening to the police radio every night

OR

would you become a more anonymous antagonist using your power for your own benefit. Using your x-ray vision to check out that cute cashier, use your kinetic mind powers to move the car infront of you doing 40 in a 55 zone, using your mind powers to get a girl way out of your league or to make people give you lots of money?

of course if you happened to be at the right place at the right time you would save a friend in need. after all you are not all evil

If i had super mind powers i know what i would do...
I'd take a guitar and set up on the most popular shopping mall i could find and just play random sh!tty songs and "mind force" everyone who walked past to give me 5$ on top of that I would "mind send" them a sense of happiness afterwards.

They get me stupid rich in an hour and i give them 10 seconds of feeling really good about them self, everyone is happy and no police or super hero would try to stop me (for what???)

oh yeah and forcing people giving me free drinks and possibly make the pretty girl in the corner think that "Yes that weired guy by the bar does look kinda cute"

WWYD?

 

[Toriver]

Let me counter your question about "why the bad guys are always more interesting", with another question: How do you MAKE the good guys interesting?

Seriously, good guys are just....bland. There are exceptions, but 8 times out of 10, the only thing the Good guys want is everything to just....stay the way it is. They have no goals, no plan. Just loafty morals based around protecting the "status quo", which apparently is fucking sacro-sanct.

So what do the good guys do? They send a single "hero" out to do their dirty work, while they (presumably) sit back at Goody-McTooshoos-ville, with their fingers in their ears chanting "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA".

And just to clarify... that's Fucking BORING!

But here's a thing: why does it have to be boring? I do agree with you that stories could do more than simply protecting the status quo in most cases, that would be both more realistic and open up far more possibilities for story arcs. It's a big part of what makes movies like V For Vendetta so enjoyable.

But I also agree with you that perhaps I worded the original question in the wrong way. Maybe it shouldn't be so much, "Why are the bad guys more interesting?" as what you stated, "How do you make the good guys as interesting as the bad guy?"

I would also like to point out that in general, I really don't have too much of a problem with really interesting villains. I enjoy them quite a bit, actually. It's more that I see something of a flaw in storytelling when all of a sudden you're rooting for the villain to win and the world of the story to be plunged into darkness/terror/destruction, whatever negative outcome will come about from the villain's victory. It just rubs me the wrong way, and I understand the whole "morally gray" argument, but people aren't stupid. We can tell when a story is supposed to be based around a morally gray premise. I think, really, that both the protagonist and the antagonist should be interesting, fleshed out characters, and when the storyteller has failed to do that, they have failed at good storytelling. And I'm just wondering why lately, when this happens, so often in ALL media, not just games (I do feel the "blank slate" argument makes sense... perhaps a potentially negative outcome of "iconic" characters like Gordon Freeman and Master Chief? *flameshield up*) they tend to err constantly on the side of the villain rather than the hero.

I think it is a teenager thing. The "bad guy" is generally the guy that does whatever he wants without taking shit from anybody. The bad guy lives by his own rules. The "bad guy" lives the life any teenager wants to live, no rules, no authority.

This is also why Wolverine, Punisher and Deadpool are so damn popular. They are "bad guys" on the side of good.

And this was honestly my theory at the time this thread was created, and I think there is an undercurrent of this there too, in a lot of cases. I think it's still an unspoken undercurrent in a lot of gamer culture, for better or worse (most of the time worse) lately. But that's a subject for another thread that if I was truly honest about it might get me the banhammer.

EDITed to finish a sentence I did not realize I didn't finish.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Let me counter your question about "why the bad guys are always more interesting", with another question: How do you MAKE the good guys interesting?

Seriously, good guys are just....bland. There are exceptions, but 8 times out of 10, the only thing the Good guys want is everything to just....stay the way it is. They have no goals, no plan. Just loafty morals based around protecting the "status quo", which apparently is fucking sacro-sanct.

So what do the good guys do? They send a single "hero" out to do their dirty work, while they (presumably) sit back at Goody-McTooshoos-ville, with their fingers in their ears chanting "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA".

And just to clarify... that's Fucking BORING!

I would also like to point out that in general, I really don't have too much of a problem with really interesting villains. I enjoy them quite a bit, actually. It's more that I see something of a flaw in storytelling when all of a sudden you're rooting for the villain to win and the world of the story to be plunged into darkness/terror/destruction, whatever negative outcome will come about from the villain's victory. It just rubs me the wrong way, and I understand the whole "morally gray" argument, but people aren't stupid. We can tell when a story is supposed to be based around a morally gray premise. I think, really, that both the protagonist and the antagonist should be interesting, fleshed out characters, and when the storyteller has failed to do that, they have failed at good storytelling. And I'm just wondering why lately, when this happens, so often in ALL media, not just games (I do feel the "blank slate" argument makes sense... perhaps a potentially negative outcome of "iconic" characters like Gordon Freeman and Master Chief? *flameshield up*).

Yeah but that's thing, isn't it: The good guys are telling you that the bad guys will lead to death and destruction. Isn't that as Biased an opinion as it gets? Think about it. That's why really interesting bad guys are so in demand.

If the villain can cast legitimate doubt in the mind of the player....you stop taking things for granted. All the rules society has set up....what if they are all lies? Deep inside, I think we ALL want to believe that. That's why we find it so entertaining.

 

[Togs]

Meh antiheros have always been cool, and everybody loves a magnificient bastard.
If you think its bad now you should of read comics in the 90's, seemed like everyone and thier mum was a brooding, byronic antihero with a dark and checkered past.

EDIT= And to be honest I prefer it that way- its quite easy to mess up but a morally compromised pragamtist as a hero/protagonist is always more fun and interesting, I hate characters that are all sweetness and light.

 

[Cazza]

Nobody wants a lame villan. If the villan is lame no one will like the story.

 

[9Darksoul6]

Why are we empathizing more with and caring so much more about villains than heroes today?

Because we as an intellecutally maturing society are starting to realize that righteousness is synonym for stupidity, and if you think about it, 'heroes' are nothing but damaged people with a god-complex.
Besides, doing the 'right thing' is always inherently less fun, and most of the time has no pragmatic sense to it.
In short, to answer your question, because illiteracy is slowly dissapearing.

 

[NightHawk21]

Basically correct. A lot of games not are choosing simpler characters for you to play so that you may almost "implant" yourself onto them.

Also, why wouldn't you like the bad guy. With the exception of the whole evil thing, bad guys usually display and have personalities that would be considered signs of "attractiveness" and power.

Yes.
Neatly Constructed Evil People are actually nice people once you get past the whole 'Protagonist killed my village' or 'I want to make a new race of humans' usually accompanied with a tad of 'WORLD DOMINATION!' and always, always an evil laugh.

Not what I meant. The evil villain is usually confident, sure of themselves and their actions and clearly has lots of power.

 

[octafish]

I blame the nineties. Just look at wrestling (not the sport, the sports entertainment) and comic books, suddenly everyone was a heel. Maybe it is a uniform thing, the badguys always have better uniforms (compare a rebel pilot's uniform to the Tie-Fighter pilot's). I'm pretty tired of it by now. I don't advocate a black and white morality I prefer shades of grey but I've never played a satisfying bad guy in a game, and if everyone in a story is a douche bag I find it hard to care for anyone (the second main reason I'm not interested in wrestling any more. George the Animal Steele's retirement being the first). If however everyone has an angle I can identify with I'm much happier.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Because if a villian is writen well, we do see their point of view. They make sense, and you understand why they do what they do.

Besides evil is more fun.

I would sooner root for a LE villian over a CG hero.

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Because they have better music then the good guys.


AmIrite?

Anyway, a Well written bad guy will ALWAYS make you question your beliefs and make you think think they are not evil.

 

[trooper6]

This isn't new.

There have long been elements of society that identified with "bad guys" over "good guys"--including real life bad guys--the obsession with Billy the Kid, Bonnie and Clyde, etc.

Even in literature there have long been tradition of seductive and interesting villains...Dracula, Ming the Merciless, Dr. Frankenstein.

The moral of the story:
We aren't that special, i.e.
We aren't somehow better than the past,
we aren't somehow worse than the past.

 

[CODE-D]

depends if your supposed to put yourself in the hero shoes or not.

as long as none are as horribly characterized as ichigo kurosaki.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I'm just speaking for myself, but it's usually because the bad guys end up being a hell of a lot more interesting. Good guys are a dime a dozen and more often than not the protagonist is rarely interesting, if given a personality that is. But there always seems to be more effort put into characterisation of the villain. I suppose a truly great villain can make a game more memorable.

 

[Arsen]

Most often the "good guy" is associated with the norm, the commonplace, the "easy to understand" perspective.

The bad guy is often associated with the side less understood, less thought of, and has this complexity weaved around it from time to time. It also helps if the individual can agree with his side of morality over the "good guys". Sometimes those tactics they are using are relatable...just simply because that's what the person's perception is to "get ahead".

Or the character could, you know, be one of the following:

- Jaime Lannister
- Roland Deschain
- Sand Dan Glokta

These characters personify "grey" characters to a tee.