Why are Dutch people...

[Vanguard_Ex]

we call them dutch cos of the Deutschland, which I believe the Netherlands were once a part of them.

this is utter and complete bullcrap I'm sorry to say.

Besides Nazi germany's occupation the only people ever to occupy The Netherlands were spain and france

The Dutch Republic originated out of rebellion against the spanish and even seized control of England at a few points in their lifetime (therefrom stems a certain hate between the two, yet also a bond)

See, you talk about bullcrap, yet I've never encountered anyone here in Britain who claims to hate or love the Dutch.

there are terms in English that show this

For example " Going Dutch" Out on the town without paying
There's tons of negative sentences coined with dutch in them , you should look them up before you call bullcrap on me sir

I don't remember calling bullcrap, don't get so defensive.
I'd love to hear these apparent tons of negative terms with Dutch attached to them. Not saying you must be wrong, but actually being British and hearing basically none of them, I have to question.
Also I don't really think these are indicative of hatred. Maybe some kind of disdain hundreds of years ago, but nowadays I don't think anyone I've ever met regard the Dutch negatively...

 

[funguy2121]

...called Dutch if their country is called either Holland or Netherlands?

It's the only country/nation that uses different words for the nationality and name of the country, as far as i know.

No, it's not. And not all countries are named for the race who inhabits the land. There are Irish living in the States, but we don't rename them New Ireland, now, do we?

 

[Shirastro]

Its just a name probabli because its hard to pronaunce it in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian
(On the other hand we use a lot of german words in everyday conversations) also we call the Germans "Schvabe". Why because it is the name of there province just like Holand

Yes but "Schvaba" is more of slang, often used derogatorily. In fact the Serbian word for cockroach is buba-schvaba (buba meaning bug).

 

[Lukeje]

Ermm... I'm pretty sure they call themselves `Nederlanders'. At least wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_people] says so. And I think the real question is why we call Germans German when they come from Deutschland.

But that's different.
Deutschland is "Germany" in English language, hence Germany-->Germans.
There are many countries that are called differently from the original "indigenous" name:

Deutschland > Germany
Nipon > Japan
Elada > Greece

But Dutch do not come from Dutchland or Dutchuny, they come from Holland/Netherlands.

My point was that if we were going to call any people `Dutch', then Germans would be the prime candidates.

actually you're wrong heritage tells us if anybody is dutch it's the english funilly enough, or the scandinavians

Neither the Flemish nor the frisians nor those who we call dutch besides these people historically tie in with the germanic tribes as such.

From the southern netherlands to the north of france you find people with flemmish heritage or burgundian heritage (french).
then West those who are related to Celts and Angle-saxons, and north/north east you find those related to the frisians who on term share heritage with both angel-saxons and the vikings.

I meant `because Dutch and Deutsch sound similar'. Nothing more.

 

[daydreamerdeluxe]

TL;DR The English are doing it wrong

In France we call the English "Angle's", Angleterre means Earth of the Angle's because of their tribe, they even misspell their own name for goodness sake!

Hey! Just because you French name us after an old Germanic tribe that moved here (Yeah, the Angles were from Germany. Of course, so were the Saxons, so Anglo-Saxon basically means Germanic ) doesn't mean we're misspelling our own name Personally, I stick with Britain, the home of the Britons, the original, pre-Roman-invasion name of the peoples of the country But yeah, the Angles were not our tribe, they were yet another group of immigrants Still, England does come from Angleland, so we're still spelling that wrong...

not to be a killjoy but then refer to yourself as bretons as history complies

Ofcourse not to be confused with the french from Bretagne nor the Elder Scrolls equivalent of the term

Nope, it's definitely Britons from Britain. The Bretons were the people of Brittany, which is, of course, in France

 

[Zantos]

We probably couldn't say it and decided one day, "You know what, we're just calling you this. Any arguments? Tell it to the navy".

In fairness in Britain we don't call ourselves British, it has to break down to about 8 or 9 different regions, it's rude to lump us in with those damn southerners.

there are terms in English that show this

For example " Going Dutch" Out on the town without paying
There's tons of negative sentences coined with dutch in them , you should look them up before you call bullcrap on me sir

That's not what going dutch means. It actually means to split the bill based on what you had. As opposed to one person paying, or splitting the bill equally regardless of what each person ate.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Two pages in and no-one's said: 'fuck this, let's just call them de Oranje'?!

Anyway, much hoo-ha about historic labels + derivation.

The English (Angles) are from Denmark, the Brits are from north west France, the Germans (Saxons/Allemanni etc.) never moved, the French are from central Germany and why don't we go back to calling the Netherlands 'the United Provinces' and save us all the arguing.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

we call them dutch cos of the Deutschland, which I believe the Netherlands were once a part of them.

this is utter and complete bullcrap I'm sorry to say.

Besides Nazi germany's occupation the only people ever to occupy The Netherlands were spain and france

The Dutch Republic originated out of rebellion against the spanish and even seized control of England at a few points in their lifetime (therefrom stems a certain hate between the two, yet also a bond)

See, you talk about bullcrap, yet I've never encountered anyone here in Britain who claims to hate or love the Dutch.

there are terms in English that show this

For example " Going Dutch" Out on the town without paying
There's tons of negative sentences coined with dutch in them , you should look them up before you call bullcrap on me sir

I don't remember calling bullcrap, don't get so defensive.
I'd love to hear these apparent tons of negative terms with Dutch attached to them. Not saying you must be wrong, but actually being British and hearing basically none of them, I have to question.
Also I don't really think these are indicative of hatred. Maybe some kind of disdain hundreds of years ago, but nowadays I don't think anyone I've ever met regard the Dutch negatively...

you do know that's what I meant right?
But okay yeah I've heard a lot of 'm cause I had an enthusiastic english teacher who went on about it for 2 hours straight but I can understand why you don't know much or any of them since most of them stem from naval jokes.
And you wouldn't quite hear a lot of those seeing as there's no longer a ship of the line in every harbour

I don't know what you mean but something has obviously gone over my head so, my bad.

I dunno, maybe it's a regional thing. Perhaps the terms are more used in different parts of the country or something.
Haha, that's true I suppose ^^

 

[Kuckles]

While we're at it, why is the country called Holland somewhere and Netherlands ('low grounds') elsewhere? That's some schizophrenic country

Edit: oh wait. So Land is obvious, then maybe 'ho' means low? That would make sense.

Either way, researching history of words is very interesting. I think I'll look this up.

No, Hol sort of means Hole,as in a place lower than the rest of the surroundings so its kinda hole-land. But Holland refers to the Northern and southern Holland provinces. 2 of the 12 total provinces in the Netherlands.

 

[SckizoBoy]

We probably couldn't say it and decided one day, "You know what, we're just calling you this. Any arguments? Tell it to the navy".

In fairness in Britain we don't call ourselves British, it has to break down to about 8 or 9 different regions, it's rude to lump us in with those damn southerners.

We're damned?! Your... northern ilk is as uncouth as they come and the 'north' is dangerous enough at the best of times without the weather making it worse! =P

Anyway... you barbarians speak some strange language unintelligible to my cultured ears! /jk

[sub][sub][sub](Yes, I'm about to put a set of power armour on!)[/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Nimcha]

While we're at it, why is the country called Holland somewhere and Netherlands ('low grounds') elsewhere? That's some schizophrenic country

Either way, researching history of words is very interesting. I think I'll look this up.

because officially THE NETHERLANDS would mean including belgium luxemburg and the northern part of france

The Netherlands blatantly means : the low countries

I always thought that the common name for that region was Benelux....i just found out that Benelux only refers to some sort of economic union between those countries.

Live and learn i guess

You are actually right. Our country is called The Netherlands. No matter what it actually means, it's just the country. I don't think you'll make many friends in Belgium if you lop them in with the Netherlands.

Anyway people should really stop calling it Holland, it's annoying. Ask any Brit what they think about people calling their entire continent just 'England'.

you're right somewhat but wrong in your conclusion, you ask an englishman he'll say england, you ask a scot he'll say " no you *** I'm scottish/brittish"

It's not everyone it's those parts that are actually heriditary different

Also : Belgium Belongs to THE NETHERLANDS because they are one of the low countries
The reason why everyone calls Holland ,Holland because of the view of The Netherlands being the low countries

Neder-landen Neder=Lage=Low

Ask any educated belgian on the subject and they'll tell you the same

Again, I know what the name of my country means. But again, it's just the one country. Belgium has been part of the Republic of the Netherlands in the past, but is not anymore. I don't know how I can make it more clear to you.

 

[Buleet]

And nobody notices Belgium.

Good thing too,my generation is one of the most stupid things imaginable.

On topic:I dont actually know why they call it dutch.

 

[daydreamerdeluxe]

We probably couldn't say it and decided one day, "You know what, we're just calling you this. Any arguments? Tell it to the navy".

In fairness in Britain we don't call ourselves British, it has to break down to about 8 or 9 different regions, it's rude to lump us in with those damn southerners.

We're damned?! Your... northern ilk is as uncouth as they come and the 'north' is dangerous enough at the best of times without the weather making it worse! =P

Anyway... you barbarians speak some strange language unintelligible to my cultured ears! /jk

[sub][sub][sub](Yes, I'm about to put a set of power armour on!)[/sub][/sub][/sub]

At least both of you have decent landscapes... Here in the East, it's just flatness as far as the eye can see o_o

 

[Zykon TheLich]

[quote="

 

[John the Gamer]

Holland is just one of the provinces of the Netherlands, but during our golden age(17th century) it was one of the richest regions in the world, contributing to about 60-90% of the national income at the time. Mostly because most of the European trade went through Amsterdam. That is why the name "Holland" became a synonym for "The Netherlands" for most foreigners.

The name "Dutch" comes from the name of our language, which was origionally called "Dietsch" or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietsch

Spoiler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_people

Etymology of autonym and exonym
Further information: Dietsch
The origins of the word Dutch go back to Proto-Germanic, the ancestor of all Germanic languages, *theudo (meaning "national/popular"); akin to Old Dutch dietsc, Old High German diutsch, Old English þeodisc and Gothic þiuda all meaning "(of) the common (Germanic) people". As the tribes among the Germanic peoples began to differentiate its meaning began to change. The Anglo-Saxons of England for example gradually stopped referring to themselves as þeodisc and instead started to use Englisc, after their tribe. On the continent *theudo evolved into two meanings: Diets (meaning "Dutch (people)" (archaic)[51]) and Deutsch (German, meaning "German (people)"). At first the English language used (the contemporary form of) Dutch to refer to any or all of the Germanic speakers on the European mainland (e.g. the Dutch, the Frisians and the -various- Germans). Gradually its meaning shifted to the Germanic people they had most contact with, both because of their geographical proximity, but also because of the rivalry in trade and overseas territories: the people from the Republic of the Netherlands, the Dutch.[52]
In the Dutch language, the Dutch refer to themselves as Nederlanders. Nederlanders derives from the Dutch word "Neder", a cognate of English "Nether" both meaning "low", and "near the sea" (same meaning in both English and Dutch), a reference to the geographical texture of the Dutch homeland; the western portion of the Northern European plain.[53][54][55] Although not as old as Diets, the term Nederlands has been in continuous use since 1250.[34]

And we only call ourselves Dutch in English. We ourselves refer to...ourselves as "Netherlanders" but that sounds like crap in English, so Dutch is easier.

Spoiler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language

Though Dutch generally refers to the language as a whole, Belgian varieties, collectively known as Flemish, are differentiated from Netherlands varieties, sometimes known as Netherlandic, though this last term is only used in specialist linguistic literature.[3]
The language has been known under a variety of names. During the Middle Ages, Dutch used the dialectal variants dietsc and duutsc, dūtsch (from which English Dutch is borrowed), both referring invariably to the Dutch, Low German, and German languages. The word was used to translate Latin (lingua) vulgaris "popular language" and to set apart the spoken vernacular from Latin?the language of writing and the Church.[4] During the Renaissance in the 16th century, differentiation began to be made by opposing duytsch (modern Duits) "German" and nederduytsch "Low German" with dietsch or nederlandsch "Dutch",[5] a distinction that is echoed in English later the same century with the terms High Dutch "German" and Low Dutch "Dutch". However, due to Dutch commercial and colonial rivalry in the 16th and 17th centuries, the English term came to refer exclusively to the Dutch. In modern Dutch, Duits has narrowed in meaning to refer to "German", Diets went out of common use because of its Nazi associations[6] and now somewhat romantically refers to older forms of Dutch,[7] whereas Hollands and Vlaams are popularly used to name the language.[8] Nederlands, the official Dutch word for "Dutch", did not become firmly established until the 19th century. The repeated use of "neder" or "low" to refer to the language is a reference to the Netherlands' downriver location at the mouth of the Rhine (harking back to Latin nomenclature, e.g., Germania inferior vs. Germania superior) and the fact that it lies in the lowest dip of the Northern European plain.[9][10][11]

EDIT: Btw, I think it's only the English that do that... In most languages we're just called "The Low Countries" (Netherlands, Nierderlanden, Nederland, Le Pays Bas, etc)

 

[SckizoBoy]

At least both of you have decent landscapes... Here in the East, it's just flatness as far as the eye can see o_o

Why, from where do you hail... Grimsby?!

Though admittedly, Sussex is quite a relaxing place (scenery wise) and London has plenty of sites, so...

 

[Beliyal]

What about Serbian "Nemačka"? I always wondered about that. I know that "Ne" means No, and "mačka" means Cat, but i seriously doubt that's the origin of the name, unless Germany went through some serious cat shortage at the time Serbians coined this name

Serbian (and Croatian) "Nemačka" ("Njemačka") and "Nemci" ("Nijemci") actually has a really hilarious origin. You see, it's not related to cats, but to the fact that "nem" or "nijem" means mute or inarticulate. Serbs and Croatians, while listening to the German language, thought they are talking gibberish and that they are mute or speechless and are just muttering random sounds. I'm not kidding, my anthropology professor told us that as an anecdote about languages. Now, he could have been kidding, but it actually makes sense, because a few hundred years ago, hearing something like German language was probably really weird and sounded funny. I know my mother still believes their language is ridiculous and cannot be comprehended. Also, it could have been used as an insult.

 

[Zantos]

We probably couldn't say it and decided one day, "You know what, we're just calling you this. Any arguments? Tell it to the navy".

In fairness in Britain we don't call ourselves British, it has to break down to about 8 or 9 different regions, it's rude to lump us in with those damn southerners.

We're damned?! Your... northern ilk is as uncouth as they come and the 'north' is dangerous enough at the best of times without the weather making it worse! =P

Anyway... you barbarians speak some strange language unintelligible to my cultured ears! /jk

[sub][sub][sub](Yes, I'm about to put a set of power armour on!)[/sub][/sub][/sub]

Uncouth? I don't know the meaning of the word!

Actually I just looked it up. It's not inaccurate.

Our language is elegant, removing necessary words to allow more fluent speech in which we can emphasise more important things. None of this "the" and adding extra letters to things. What the hell is grarse anyway?

Yeah you run to your power armour, I'll be fine in my flat cap.

Also it's actually quite nice today, warm, slight cloud cover, bit humid, a pleasant breeze. We're going to the midlands to burn things later.

At least both of you have decent landscapes... Here in the East, it's just flatness as far as the eye can see o_o

At least you can cycle places without needing a shower as soon as you get there.

 

[Asti]

I don't mean to be a bother, but, diets-dutch typogrophically trace back leads to scandinavia and not germany
You can trace this back the other way round by following the dutch transition into Afrikaans (South Africa)
With a basic knowledge of Afrikaans and Dutch one could read and understand a norwegian newspaper

Whilst reading a german one would however not, the difficulty arises when doing this test because most dutch/flemmish people on the borders of germany have allways learned or known some german via dialect and shifting country borders. through evolution in language from dialect to lingua franca more similarities arise

A basic example is " Limburgs"(southern most province of holland) that is basically Identical to "Kollisch plat" (Cologne)

Another difficulty in your conclusion arises when trying to draw the similarity through grammar. if what you said would be true both languages should have originated with the same grammar, however they didn't and don't contain it in the slightest

Errr.... sorry, I'm German, I've learned some Dutch and you can believe me: I do NOT understand a word Norwegian. XD Except for.. well, you know, the words that are the same because Swedish, Norwegian, Dutch, Afrikaans, German and English are all part of the same language family... And if you have a bit of free time, google "indo-european languages"- You'll be surprised. (Sorry, I don't mean to bother, but I'm a linguist and I know quite a bit about this stuff.)

It's all a little more complicated because those little countries of the Benelux region were all founded with no regard to language boundaries. That's why northern German dialects are more similar to Dutch than to our standard variety and they speak Dutch (Flämisch, that is) and French in Belgium and Letzeburgisch and French in Luxemburg. There is even a German dialect spoken in France which is "Elsässisch".

Oh, and the dialect spoken in Cologne is called "Kölsch". (And so is their beer, by the way.)

What about Serbian "Nemačka"? I always wondered about that. I know that "Ne" means No, and "mačka" means Cat, but i seriously doubt that's the origin of the name, unless Germany went through some serious cat shortage at the time Serbians coined this name

Its just a name probabli because its hard to pronaunce it in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian
(On the other hand we use a lot of german words in everyday conversations) also we call the Germans "Schvabe" or ?vabe. Why because it is the name of there province just like Holand

Really?! That's so awesome, that's where I am from. (Schwaben) XD
Unfortunately, I don't speak any slavic languages, so I can't say anything about that. =( I've always lived in the western half of Germany, so I never got in touch with anything but Dutch and French. (And English, obviously...)

 

[daydreamerdeluxe]

At least both of you have decent landscapes... Here in the East, it's just flatness as far as the eye can see o_o

Why, from where do you hail... Grimsby?!

Though admittedly, Sussex is quite a relaxing place (scenery wise) and London has plenty of sites, so...

Peterborough, on the edge of the Fens... Cabbage farms all the way to the horizon, and the one place where wind turbines unarguably improve the skyline Slightly on topic, bizarrely enough, but the most similar place geographically England has to the Netherlands! I really wasn't expecting to get OT...