Why are modern consoles bad?

[Joccaren]

Phones are far simpler from a usability standpoint, whether Android or iOS. There's so many things you are literally not allowed to do on either phone OS that you can do on Windows and break it. I have to root my phone to be able to toggle data on and off for example. Phones here in the US don't really update from when you buy them so you have to get a new phone to get the newest version of Android. The only things that update are really the apps. Android/iOS is much more user friendly than you Windows/Linux/MacOS. If you do manage to break Android, you can just reset it, sign into your Google Account and your phone is basically back up and running as if nothing happened. Sorry about your family members getting iPhones, Apple products are so bad lol. I know they are good devices and all but so many little things piss me off about them. I just put a 2015 MacBook on eBay today and it's rather annoying how tapping the touchpad is not a "click" like every other "PC" laptop. Seriously, it's a freaking project to replace something as simple as a keyboard on MacBook (the sorta older thicker ones, I can understand it being a ***** on anything super thin). New MacBooks don't even have a "standard" USB port.

You see, this is the really amusing thing. Much as Macs annoy the hell out of you and me because they're a pain to use - they're the easier to use option. They ARE the straight forward easy option. And they're still a pain to use unless you have extensive experience with them.
We'll have to disagree on phones being easier than PCs to use. They're honestly not IMO, both Android and iPhone have a lot of things that just aren't explained, that many people want to know how to do. Both also have constant firmware and OS updates too, which are a pain. And yeah, I've got extensive experience with both.

I can really only see laptops being important to students. Some workers need laptops but the vast majority don't have jobs that required their own laptops. You can pay like every bill with your phone. I know almost nobody that uses a laptop for much of anything anymore.

You can pay every bill with your phone, but phones are a pain in the ass to use for things like that. Anyone who isn't a student that I know that uses a phone needs glasses to do so because its too small to read, because even the largest phones are small. It makes doing all this sort of stuff a pain for most people, and they'd rather just have a PC of some description to do it on too. Touchpads are also a pain for typing emails and such, especially professionally where mistakes from autocorrect or mispressed buttons can have serious implications, or make you seem highly unprofessional.

You can also look at Laptops being with near every student these days, and that tells you something about the future. Even in houses where you can't afford a console, or the TV is always in use for family shows, you're kids will need a laptop for schoolwork. That laptop can play games. Guess what those kids are likely to use when they grow up to play games on?

PS4 enables you to game more in your free time than any other option right now. All those things you listed as potential issues (system shut off during install, not having auto-updates on, etc.) are issues for every other gaming platform as well. I remember I was quite shocked that I was able to play Watch Dogs right away because I just assumed, put in the disc and wait 15 minutes, then play. I think I did walk away at the start to get a drink, take a piss, whatever, and came back to see I could play the game. Same thing goes for every PS4 game I've played. There is quite a night and day difference between the PS3 and PS4. I loathed downloading updates because it meant I couldn't play or even watch anything as I used the PS3 to watch just about everything. Not being able to background download updates was the worst.

Yes, they are issues with every gaming platform. That's the point. The PS4 is not exempt from issues. It is, like all other platforms, a complex thing that is no longer a simple plug and play devices. You find it better than other devices, that's cool. Doesn't change the fact it isn't plug and play, like things used to be, and that the differences really aren't that big between it and other platforms.

And again, your experience with Watch Dogs is different from many others, whom the game just froze and spent forever installing at a certain point for unknown reasons, occurring both on disk and from download. It isn't a reliable experience, even with its positives. It is like the other platforms, and as the other platforms also make themselves easier to use, they become more and more similar.

Publishers and developers cater to the consoles because there's more money there. You're not going to make the worst version of your game for the highest selling platform right? And, PC players always bitching at console "peasants" for shit controls and whatnot. I'm not making a blanket statement saying every AAA game sells more on consoles, but the vast majority of them do, thus consoles are catered to. There's some games that are just PC games like Warcraft/Starcraft, which don't even get console ports most times. Of course a AAA PC game is going to sell more on PC, especially a genre that also dominates on PC.

Publishers and developers cater to the consoles because it is cheaper for them, and it is easier to find developers with extensive console experience than for other platforms, as the history of consoles has made them highly plug'n'play, and made them the most profitable platform, and therefore got a lot of people trained in developing on them. Looking at the PS4, a lot of Japanese devs are also highly oriented towards Japanese console platforms, and have little experience with PCs at all in general.
I'd also be surprised if Shooters is a genre that dominates on PC, given how much they sell on consoles. Yet Overwatch has seen resounding success on PC, and less on console. I'd also like citation for the vast majority of AAA titles selling more on console. It honestly does depend on the game, and the PC industry has overtaken the console industry in terms of revenue - even when you remove all the small flash and Facebook styled games. A number of large name titles do, there are also those that don't, and the vast majority where we don't know which platform sells what.

The upgraded PS4s/Xbones aren't going to do much IMO, it's more of just a marketing ploy trying to keep interest in people buying the consoles and perhaps a few "double" buys as some people just have to have the latest of everything. The only mistake would be making games only the upgrades can play and having Sega 32X situation.

The problem is that they're not going to make exclusive titles to the new ones. That introduces problems on the developer side as well, where you have to develop for two platforms, and two sets of hardware. Users also have to consider which hardware they have, and whether a game will run well on it or not - and I know that's stopped me from buying 3DS games because I know I need the new 3DS to get adequate performance on them, even though the old one will play them, and I don't want to do that.
It complicates things, because games will now stop being as polished on consoles, and no longer be a simple "I can play it" consideration - as similar to the computer you'll likely run into more issues if you don't have the latest update.
At the development side, this is making things more complex, and that influences the consumer side to. Merely introducing these is a bad move, in all honesty.

Consoles still have huge advantages with just being convenient for a home entertainment setup and playing on a couch. Most people don't realize hooking up a PC to a HDTV is super easy nor do they want their PC next to a TV either. You don't have to give a shit about specs with console gaming, that's huge. The price point of consoles is really good, it's not easy to build (let alone buy) a gaming PC at the price of a console. A console's complexity is lower of just about everything out there, they're easier than phones, tablets, laptops, etc. The biggest issue of the PS4 and this generation in general is lack of games. I don't even think there's been a current gen game I've thought was really good. I don't even think I'd give an 8/10 or higher to any game yet.

Home entertainment though is covered by so many other devices its not funny. My family hasn't owned a console since the PS2, though I did buy a WiiU, yet we manage just fine - even without hooking a PC up, or a Firestick, or anything of the like. Consoles are also damn expensive. $300-$400 min is a pretty hefty price to pay, let alone the subscription for multiplayer privileges, higher game prices, and if you want to actually use it when someone else in the family wants to watch TV, another TV to shove elsewhere in the house.
They're also not significantly, if at all from my experience with people, easier to use than a phone, or a tablet, or a computer - and they require more set up than half of them.
And as said above, you're going to have to start worrying about specs thanks to the new consoles coming out with improved specs, which will impact how games actually play on both platforms.

They are a little simpler than current PCs, but the direction they're going is eroding that advantage. Meanwhile, PCs are getting easier and easier to use, and eroding that advantage from the other end. Honestly, the biggest thing with PCs these days is their reputation. They have a reputation for being hard to use, but again, we have a generation growing up with them, and seeing that they're not that difficult at all. Its not going to be an instant change, but the original niche consoles occupied was destroyed last generation, and now they're trying to find a new one. They're focusing on the wrong side of that right now, going for the power, performance and capabilities aspects that we've again and again seen through console history to lead to failure. But they do it because they try to compete with the PC, rather than take their niche, and double down on it with some truly good games, that may not be comparable to what the PC can achieve, but that are easy and simple to pick up and play, and deeper, fuller experiences than what you'd find on mobile or handhelds. There are some great games that can be made with current gen consoles. Trying to push into every market and compete there takes away from their strengths, and exposes their weaknesses. They need to take that market they've developed, and focus on strengthening it. Let the PC look better, and deal with the low-user count, highly expensive fads like VR and such. Most of your users don't actually care, or can't fork out the money to do that sort of stuff anyway. Focus on what the console has to offer instead, and provide for your core customers, rather than trying to provide for everyone. Back in the PS2 era - sure, I could understand trying to keep up. Even at the end of last gen, the scope of games that could be made were ending up highly limited after 7 years of development. After 3 years though, and the AAA industry not really providing anything new? Yeah, not a need to make things more complicated. Make them simpler instead.

 

[RJ 17]

Simplest answer is often the correct one:

Modern consoles are trying too hard to be PCs...and they'll never achieve this. This isn't a "PC Master Race" thing, it's the simple fact that consoles are trying to be something that they're not. Instead of embracing the advantages that they have over PC (for example the ease-of-use that used to come from being able to buy a game and get right in and play it the moment you pop it into your console), they're distancing themselves from them (damn near every game you buy now has to install onto your console).

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Split screen is alive and well on Nintendo consoles, which is why Nintendo is 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times better than is competitors.

Remember why Microsoft is in the gaming industry at all? Split screen Halo. Its gone, never to return, eliminating the only reason to own a Microsoft console.

It's just too bad their lineup is largely the same old kid-focused IPs reiterated for the...well I lost count about ten years ago.

Maybe the Switch will change things though, as it looks like there is quite a bit of 3rd party support now.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Simplest answer is often the correct one:

Modern consoles are trying too hard to be PCs...and they'll never achieve this. This isn't a "PC Master Race" thing, it's the simple fact that consoles are trying to be something that they're not. Instead of embracing the advantages that they have over PC (for example the ease-of-use that used to come from being able to buy a game and get right in and play it the moment you pop it into your console), they're distancing themselves from them (damn near every game you buy now has to install onto your console).

...Orrrrr perhaps it's just that PC's influence in the market is unavoidable because it's always been ahead of the curve, even if the tip is typically a bit unrefined. I think as time goes on, it will be easier to see that consoles were "only" consoles simply because tech back then was so limited in general.


Having said that, I definitely agree with the point that there needs to be a more universal solution to hardware, along with compatible software that runs on it. This won't happen unless it becomes more economically feasible for all involved though. The real kicker is that ironically it is us consumers who ultimately decide it. Our society's been dumbing itself down for decades now though, so I don't see much changing soon unless hardware makers can accommodate ever increasing levels of stupid.

You might ask why is this happening, but that's a giant catch-22 that would require copious amounts of good bourbon to discuss.

 

[diana silvestor]

I dont think they are bad at performance. most of them are not durable; may be they were designed in such a way, so that they will not last more that 5 years.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Snip

I have no clue how you say phones are harder to use than PCs. You just touch the little picture of the app you want to run and that's it. PCs have so much more management to them and you can obviously mess up the OS much easier. The touchscreen nature makes phones very intuitive to use and definitely much easier for someone who is new to technology. It's why you have those tablets made for children as if a normal PC was easier, there'd be kid PCs instead of kid tablets.

I looked up the Watch Dogs issue, it was the Day 1 patch that caused it. At the same time, why would you download and install the patch before playing? I put in the disc to play a game, not to update the game then play. That was obviously nothing to do with the PS4 but a bad game patch. That was easier to get around vs if it happened on the PC as just deleting the game data and starting over would have you back up and playing a couple minutes on PS4. Whereas on PC "deleting the game" means redownloading it, which is obviously much longer.

How are consoles cheaper to develop for? At least before PS4/Xbone going with x86 architecture, every new console was a huge re-learning experience with different architecture. Even developers with console experience isn't really a factor when moving to a new console as that experience isn't very helpful. Developing for new consoles was much harder than developing for PC yet consoles were always the priority.

I feel the "hero" shooter is a new thing for console gamers where it's become huge on PC from TF2 to the MOBAs. Overwatch selling more on PC isn't surprising. I think it's only a matter of time before the "hero" games (shooters/MOBAs) start to dominate the CODs/BFs/etc. on consoles as well. I played a couple matches of the Overwatch beta and hated its simplicity, Battleborn is a far better game.

For proof of games selling more on consoles just look up say the top 10 best selling games of any year and tell me how many of those sold more on PC. The answer for 2015 would be 0.
http://venturebeat.com/2016/01/14/2015-npd-the-10-best-selling-games-of-the-year/

Obviously, the AAA industry makes every game thinking it's going to sell like 10 million for whatever reason, and to do that, the game needs to be a huge hit on consoles.

I wasn't talking about home entertainment in general (most people don't use consoles for home entertainment outside of gaming), I'm talking about gaming. If someone wants to play COD/GTA/etc., they will most likely prefer a console considering it's designed for the entertainment center and you can play the games comfortably on your couch with a controller. The average person doesn't want to play games in a computer chair at a desk on a monitor with their PC speakers. They want to play on their couch on their big TV that's connected to their sound system.

 

[Joccaren]

I have no clue how you say phones are harder to use than PCs. You just touch the little picture of the app you want to run and that's it. PCs have so much more management to them and you can obviously mess up the OS much easier. The touchscreen nature makes phones very intuitive to use and definitely much easier for someone who is new to technology. It's why you have those tablets made for children as if a normal PC was easier, there'd be kid PCs instead of kid tablets.

And on the PC you just click on the little picture of the application you want to run and that's it.

Both have a bit more depth to them than that, and having them work the way you want isn't a simple "Press the app button" and you're done.

I looked up the Watch Dogs issue, it was the Day 1 patch that caused it. At the same time, why would you download and install the patch before playing? I put in the disc to play a game, not to update the game then play. That was obviously nothing to do with the PS4 but a bad game patch. That was easier to get around vs if it happened on the PC as just deleting the game data and starting over would have you back up and playing a couple minutes on PS4. Whereas on PC "deleting the game" means redownloading it, which is obviously much longer.

Funnily enough, when your PS4 tells you "Please install this patch before playing", most people are just going to click ok. They were also able to play just fine... Until the game simply stopped working. Your whole point has been "This doesn't happen on the PS4". This is one example where it does, I'm sure I could find more if I tried. The PS4 is not perfect or exempt from the same issues as every other platform.

How are consoles cheaper to develop for? At least before PS4/Xbone going with x86 architecture, every new console was a huge re-learning experience with different architecture. Even developers with console experience isn't really a factor when moving to a new console as that experience isn't very helpful. Developing for new consoles was much harder than developing for PC yet consoles were always the priority.

The cheaper part came from the fact that there was only 1 API and driver set you had to account for, one hardware setup, or I guess 2 if you're going both platforms. You didn't have to worry about different versions of drivers, different manufacturer's drivers, and the individual capabilities of the hardware and its drivers each PC would have differently, and building in options and failsafes and detections to ensure the game would be adaptable to this. You could also save money on various expensive shaders that consoles still just can't run, and therefore you don't have to spend time and money developing.
Knowledge of how to program for one console also wasn't wasted when moving to the next. Manufacturers include APIs and drivers to help with that. You wouldn't get the most out of a new console, sure, but that'd come with time, and before then you had a good headstart on how to program for that console in general from past experience with the company's APIs and such. With the AAA industry's focus on consoles during the period where PCs were more of a mess, that meant people got a good decade of experience with consoles, particularly Sony's offerings, as opposed to PC games. There is a different skillset in general required for each, as each require a different approach from a AAA game. More devs have experience with the skillset of console games. This is also a really big thing in Japan. Were it so simple and easy to develop for PCs that any chump could do it easier than develop for a new console, the Dark Souls original port and Arkham Knight wouldn't have been in the port state they were in. That was done by devs with little to no PC porting experience, and this was the result. Those more experienced with PC porting, manage to port well.

I feel the "hero" shooter is a new thing for console gamers where it's become huge on PC from TF2 to the MOBAs. Overwatch selling more on PC isn't surprising. I think it's only a matter of time before the "hero" games (shooters/MOBAs) start to dominate the CODs/BFs/etc. on consoles as well. I played a couple matches of the Overwatch beta and hated its simplicity, Battleborn is a far better game.

Honestly, I think a large part of it is just that Blizzard is seen as a PC company. You don't know them on consoles, and their only real outings to consoles haven't been great, so why trust them?
The same is a phenomenon that happens on the PC; If a company like Ubisoft releases a game with a PC port, its not going to sell that well on the PC because PC players know Ubisoft doesn't care at all for them, and thinks they're all a bunch of pirates, so they're going to get an inferior, crappy product. This influences sales quite heavily, and is more a Ubisoft problem, or other AAA companies who behave similar, than a PC problem.
Funnily enough, it was also the best selling game on consoles during June. Hell, it was best selling game overall, even excluding its PC sales. It obviously has popularity on consoles - just far more on PC. But of course, people don't play games on the PC, do they?

For proof of games selling more on consoles just look up say the top 10 best selling games of any year and tell me how many of those sold more on PC. The answer for 2015 would be 0.
http://venturebeat.com/2016/01/14/2015-npd-the-10-best-selling-games-of-the-year/

So, we have 10 games every year that sell more on consoles combined than on PC. Of them, four are exclusives, which almost certainly could be counteracted by PC exclusive sales, One has similar PC and console sales and is outclassing both in Mobile sales, two are from companies that very clearly focus on consoles and have that reputation with their PC fanbase, and the remaining 3 are only arguably equally biased to both platforms. This does have a large affect on things, as can be shown by titles like Dark Souls having ridiculous popularity on the PC, despite being poor console ports. It really depends on the type of game you're looking at, and the types of games and developers behind them match console audiences primarily - of course they're going to sell more on consoles than PCs. Compare overall sales though, and again, you end up with PCs in front, and consoles slowly falling further and further behind.

Obviously, the AAA industry makes every game thinking it's going to sell like 10 million for whatever reason, and to do that, the game needs to be a huge hit on consoles.

Diablo III would beg to differ.
World of Warcraft begs to differ.
Overwatch on the PC alone probably begs to differ, but without exact sales numbers its harder to tell.
Minecraft begs to differ.
CS:GO begs to differ.
Hell, to be entirely honest, a fair few PC games beg to differ. I guess good luck pointing this out to a publisher, but one thing that has always been shown; create a niche game for a dedicated audience, and you'll be successful. Create a general game for a wide and nondescript audience, and you'll probably do ok, but not as well as a niche title targeting each individually would have done.

I wasn't talking about home entertainment in general (most people don't use consoles for home entertainment outside of gaming), I'm talking about gaming. If someone wants to play COD/GTA/etc., they will most likely prefer a console considering it's designed for the entertainment center and you can play the games comfortably on your couch with a controller. The average person doesn't want to play games in a computer chair at a desk on a monitor with their PC speakers. They want to play on their couch on their big TV that's connected to their sound system.

The average person doesn't want to play games on the couch with a controller, they want to play them on their phone on the way to work. Numerically, more PC games are sold than consoles, and maybe PC gamers are just a lot more dedicated and buy a lot more games, but it does imply that more people, in general, prefer playing on their PC. This is before we get to browser based and F2P games.

I don't think there is enough information to generalise about the average person, looking at the context of playing games. We can say these things about people who play on console, but that doesn't tell us about the average person necessarily. This is also starting to get rather off topic, talking about which is more popular out of PCs and consoles, rather than whether consoles should focus on their strengths of ease of use, of go the path of increasing complexity to try and keep up with PCs and the latest tech developments.

 

[votemarvel]

Consoles are and will always be a purchase of convenient. They're far easy to buy than PCs, far easier to setup, far cheaper, and definitely far simpler to play games on.

And like every other time I've made this point. I'm putting money on the guess that a "PC master race" fanatic is going to try and scream at me to tell me i'm wrong. Because this is the internet, and some people are insecure enough that they can't handle the fact that they're not superior because they own a PC, or that there's still purpose to consoles.

Well not scream but more of a mad mumble.

Easier to buy is somewhat odd. Go into the shop and give them your money. That you have the option to build your own PC doesn't mean that you can't pick up pretty reasonable prebuilt machine.

Not sure on the setup either to be honest. Just speaking for the Xbox One and my PC. Plug both into TV, turn on, enter Microsoft account details, let machine update. I'm not sure where the difficulty in setting up my PC comes from.

Cheaper initially you are completely correct. A console will be cheaper than a comparable PC but over the long term things tend to balance out. Sure you get your hardware at a cheaper price but you then pay more for your games and the ability to play online is locked behind a paywall, if you go the Sony or Microsoft console route. Over the lifetime of the machines, the prices will average to be around the same.

Simpler to play games? Turn on machine, select icon for game, play game. That's the exact same process for Xbox One and my PC. I suppose I do have to double click on my PC rather than a single on the One.

I hope I don't come across as a PC gaming fanatic but some people have an equally warped opinion of the 'difficulty' of PC gaming.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Snip

I guess we should stay more on topic. Consoles are much easier and simple to use. The PS4 Watch Dogs issue basically proves that. Yeah, stuff like that can happen on PS4, it's the nature having installs and updates. But the fix was just deleting game data and starting over, which means the player could be back playing in just a few minutes. If that happened on PC, you'd have to most like reload the game.

 

[votemarvel]

Snip

I guess we should stay more on topic. Consoles are much easier and simple to use. The PS4 Watch Dogs issue basically proves that. Yeah, stuff like that can happen on PS4, it's the nature having installs and updates. But the fix was just deleting game data and starting over, which means the player could be back playing in just a few minutes. If that happened on PC, you'd have to most like reload the game.

I'd just copy/paste the original pre-update game files back and carry on playing that way.

Yes I have a hard drive where I copy games to for situations just as you describe. I obsessively backup everything.

 

[votemarvel]

Ah so you employ the if you reply you are a fanatic card. Sadly I must take you up on that as I am a glutton for punishment.

Yes the price is higher for a prebuilt PC but not that much more. You can get a capable system from BestBuy for under $500. Yes that is one to two hundred more than a PS4 or a PS4 Pro but at the same time you are getting access to cheaper games (more on that in a moment) and far more flexibility.

On average you are going to be paying $5 to $10 less per game on the PC. Of course this isn't true for every title but it is in most cases. Now depending on how many games you buy then that can quickly mount up, then as you mention there is the chance of a good humble bundle or Steam sale. GoG will also give you credit on your account if you aren't getting the best regional price.

So add in that you also don't have to pay for an online subscription, I paid $40 for my last 12 month Gold sub, on top of on average cheaper prices for your games, you are actually paying out about the same for your console and your PC over the first year of ownership.

However I must add in the interest of fairness that consoles get access to the second hand game market, which can mean far cheaper prices if you are willing to wait for a little while after launch. Now that can mean you run the risk of the online portion dying out but for single player gamers like me it is a godsend.

Can't argue with you about the titles you mention, I've never played them, so I will take you at your word when it comes to them. However I can say with equal honesty that I don't encounter any more glitches or crashes on my PC than I do on the Xbox One. Both versions of Fallout 4 seem to crash at random moments. I'm sure we could go tit for tat on poorly optimised or crash prone games, it really isn't something worth doing though.

I don't believe I have oversimplified anything, I'm telling you what I do to game on my PC. It really is that simple for me to play. Do I have more options to tinker with if I want...sure, but since when did options become a bad thing?

If you don't want people to try to refute a point then why post on a discussion forum? It's pretty hard to have a good conversation if you agree on everything being said.

Do I think consoles are bad? No of course not, I wouldn't own them if I did. However people seem to ascribe far more problems and difficulty to PC gaming than actually exist these days. That's all I've tried to do, show people that PC gaming is the expensive nightmare that they think.

Personally I hope you don't get bored with this thread, it is nice to be able to have a good conversation with people.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Snip

I guess we should stay more on topic. Consoles are much easier and simple to use. The PS4 Watch Dogs issue basically proves that. Yeah, stuff like that can happen on PS4, it's the nature having installs and updates. But the fix was just deleting game data and starting over, which means the player could be back playing in just a few minutes. If that happened on PC, you'd have to most like reload the game.

I'd just copy/paste the original pre-update game files back and carry on playing that way.

Yes I have a hard drive where I copy games to for situations just as you describe. I obsessively backup everything.

The average person is going to do that? Heck, I wouldn't even do that.

Yes the price is higher for a prebuilt PC but not that much more. You can get a capable system from BestBuy for under $500. Yes that is one to two hundred more than a PS4 or a PS4 Pro but at the same time you are getting access to cheaper games (more on that in a moment) and far more flexibility.

On average you are going to be paying $5 to $10 less per game on the PC. Of course this isn't true for every title but it is in most cases. Now depending on how many games you buy then that can quickly mount up, then as you mention there is the chance of a good humble bundle or Steam sale. GoG will also give you credit on your account if you aren't getting the best regional price.

So add in that you also don't have to pay for an online subscription, I paid $40 for my last 12 month Gold sub, on top of on average cheaper prices for your games, you are actually paying out about the same for your console and your PC over the first year of ownership.

However I must add in the interest of fairness that consoles get access to the second hand game market, which can mean far cheaper prices if you are willing to wait for a little while after launch. Now that can mean you run the risk of the online portion dying out but for single player gamers like me it is a godsend.

You're forgetting the other end of access to the 2nd hand game market. You can buy games Day 1 and then SELL them after you're done thereby getting the game for a discounted price. A console gamer doesn't have to wait for game sales/price drops to get games at a discount. I buy games whenever I want to play them without worrying about cost. Plus, with Best Buys' gamer club you get new games for $48. PS+ does give you free games and the service was actually amazing on PS3 but the selection of games since PS4 came out hasn't been nearly as good. There will probably be at least one game you get free that you want plus you'll get a bit of discount of something here and there so it's not quite as much money as it seems.

Consoles are just simply the easiest and cheapest way to play games on your couch with a controller on your big screen TV with your booming sound system. Yes, a PC can do all that but not nearly as easy or conveniently.

 

[votemarvel]

Forgive the late reply. Getting ready to move house.

I think the obsessive part ruled me out of the average person straight away. In fact it is more a fanatical thing for me.

As to the next point I had assumed that trading in to get money back was an obvious side effect of the second hand market existing. After all you can't buy a used game if someone hasn't bought it before you brand new. I will make sure to clarify that in the future.

However the points still hold. The amount of people who buy second hand are about the same I imagine as those who wait for a Steam sale before purchasing. So still have the balance there with the on average cheaper day one purchase on PC.

The games you get from PSN+ and Games with Gold are little more than extended rentals these days, which is why I tend to dismiss them, as you can't play them if you let your online subscription lapse. The only one which I consider to be worth a damn is the Xbox 360 version, where you get to keep the games no matter your subscription level. Does anyone know if you can play backward compatible Xbox 360 games on the One without a Gold subscription?

I'll be honest I don't see what is at all difficult about playing on your TV with a PC. I would genuinely appreciate input from people on what is difficult about couch gaming on a PC.

 

[Supernova1138]

As long as consoles continue to lock 90% of their games at a headache inducing 30FPS or lower, that is the main reason they are bad and will continue to be bad.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

As to the next point I had assumed that trading in to get money back was an obvious side effect of the second hand market existing. After all you can't buy a used game if someone hasn't bought it before you brand new. I will make sure to clarify that in the future.

However the points still hold. The amount of people who buy second hand are about the same I imagine as those who wait for a Steam sale before purchasing. So still have the balance there with the on average cheaper day one purchase on PC.

The games you get from PSN+ and Games with Gold are little more than extended rentals these days, which is why I tend to dismiss them, as you can't play them if you let your online subscription lapse. The only one which I consider to be worth a damn is the Xbox 360 version, where you get to keep the games no matter your subscription level. Does anyone know if you can play backward compatible Xbox 360 games on the One without a Gold subscription?

I'll be honest I don't see what is at all difficult about playing on your TV with a PC. I would genuinely appreciate input from people on what is difficult about couch gaming on a PC.

I was mainly talking about buying new games (I almost never buy used games). With a console since there's physical game discs, I can buy (new) whenever I want and get that "discount" considering that I can resell the game when I'm done. The Best Buy gamer's club makes that cheaper day 1 PC game purchase no longer cheaper. There's almost always been some store offering discounts on games, Kmart actually used to be the shit as you'd buy a new game then get a coupon for $20 off the next game you bought.

How many games do you actually go back and replay? There's only those very special games that I replay, and I don't mind paying full price for a game that good. Playing a new game and getting a new experience is usually better than replaying a game. So getting "rentals" is very much like getting the game to me. PS3 was much better with PS+ than it is now. I used to sell games I had even if there was DLC I wanted to play because the game would most likely end up free on PS+. For example, I sold Bioshock Infinite and still played the DLC because it was a PS+ game. I'm actually playing Dishonored's DLC right now without actually owning Dishonored.

It's more about convenience and logistics really with regards to playing PC games on a TV. Yeah, it's super easy to do, HDMI cord and that's like it. However, most people have their PCs at there desk and all hooked up. Who wants to have to move their PC to another room to game? And then move it back to do PC stuff? Plus, there isn't that much of money saving just buying the gaming PC.

As long as consoles continue to lock 90% of their games at a headache inducing 30FPS or lower, that is the main reason they are bad and will continue to be bad.

I guess every visual medium is bad as nothing else is displayed at more than 30fps. And, that setting on TVs that make everything 60fps is unwatchable.

 

[Supernova1138]

I guess every visual medium is bad as nothing else is displayed at more than 30fps. And, that setting on TVs that make everything 60fps is unwatchable.

Other visual mediums have motion blur and the advantage of the fact that you don't control the camera, games feel very sluggish and look choppy at 30FPS to the point where to me they can look more like a very fast moving slideshow rather than something in motion. Even with other visual mediums not having problems as bad as games at the low framerate, I'd rather video content move to 60FPS now. It's no longer the 1920s where you film everything at 24FPS because that is the bare minimum framerate you can get away with to create the illusion of motion and you want to keep your film costs down. Higher framerates would benefit all visual mediums by offering smother more realistic motion.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Other visual mediums have motion blur and the advantage of the fact that you don't control the camera, games feel very sluggish and look choppy at 30FPS to the point where to me they can look more like a very fast moving slideshow rather than something in motion. Even with other visual mediums not having problems as bad as games at the low framerate, I'd rather video content move to 60FPS now. It's no longer the 1920s where you film everything at 24FPS because that is the bare minimum framerate you can get away with to create the illusion of motion and you want to keep your film costs down. Higher framerates would benefit all visual mediums by offering smother more realistic motion.

I don't know about that. I recall people not liking when The Hobbit (IIRC) was shown at 48fps, but I've never seen a movie at 48fps though. If it comes off as anything like TVs upping the framerate, I wouldn't like it either.

 

[CaitSeith]

Other visual mediums have motion blur and the advantage of the fact that you don't control the camera, games feel very sluggish and look choppy at 30FPS to the point where to me they can look more like a very fast moving slideshow rather than something in motion. Even with other visual mediums not having problems as bad as games at the low framerate, I'd rather video content move to 60FPS now. It's no longer the 1920s where you film everything at 24FPS because that is the bare minimum framerate you can get away with to create the illusion of motion and you want to keep your film costs down. Higher framerates would benefit all visual mediums by offering smother more realistic motion.

I don't know about that. I recall people not liking when The Hobbit (IIRC) was shown at 48fps, but I've never seen a movie at 48fps though. If it comes off as anything like TVs upping the framerate, I wouldn't like it either.

That's because 48fps didn't make the Hobbit look more realistic. It made it look more like what it really was: a bunch of actors wearing costumes and waving fake weapons. Those costumes and props were designed to look realistic at 24fps, but not at 48fps. It has taken long time of experimentation to make props and sets look real at 24fps, and the tricks that have come from it don't work as good in 48fps.

Spoiler: It pretty much reminds me this old joke...

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

That's because 48fps didn't make the Hobbit look more realistic. It made it look more like what it really was: a bunch of actors wearing costumes and waving fake weapons. Those costumes and props were designed to look realistic at 24fps, but not at 48fps. It has taken long time of experimentation to make props and sets look real at 24fps, and the tricks that have come from it don't work as good in 48fps.

Ah, I thought the "soap opera" effect with TVs might be caused by inserting "fake" frames but I guess it's just the higher framerate itself.