Why are people so against 'feminism' in gaming?
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Well...this thread actually wasn't as heated as I expected it to be. I thought there would be more death threats.
OT I think feminism's tendancy to move from gender equality to female favoritism and aggressive superiority-and perhaps more importantly, its percieved tendancy to do so-it why there are people who oppose "feminism" on every front. Of course it depends on what exactly in the spectrum you mean by that word. To be fair I don't think there are many people anymore who think- certainatly not publically-that females are just inferior or belong in seperate spheres merely for tradition's (for instance religions) sake (I have seen people make social arguments). Alot of opposition to feminism is oriented at radical "feminazis" as they are called, rather than neutral (and largely uncontested in mainstream) equality. Though "radical" and more centrist "mainstream" feminism often get lumped together, as some people who will not be named seem to think if gender equality gets in the way of opposition to radical "feminazis", well, it's just collateral damage and a price they're more than willing to pay.
That's my personal impression, at least. I don't really have much to do with it.
In gaming terms, I dont' think stereotypes are bad as long as they're used judiciously-DNF's parodying, for instance (up to debate, I know). In general though, I don't think gaming-or any medium-should go out of it's way to portray women (or anyone) in a certain light on either end of the issue, be it helpless damsel or spunky man-butt kicker with bouncing cleavage. Extra credits has gone into this in more detail but ideal female characters (or again, characters in general) should be defined to a significant degree by their gender, but not blatantly or constrictingly or-most of all-unrealistically. HL2 and Bioware games are often cited as good examples-those characters are plausable in real life, personality wise.
I'm still wondering how long it's going to be before they make a (noticable)game starring a female protagonist who isn't physically attractive. But I'm rambling now.
OT I think feminism's tendancy to move from gender equality to female favoritism and aggressive superiority-and perhaps more importantly, its percieved tendancy to do so-it why there are people who oppose "feminism" on every front. Of course it depends on what exactly in the spectrum you mean by that word. To be fair I don't think there are many people anymore who think- certainatly not publically-that females are just inferior or belong in seperate spheres merely for tradition's (for instance religions) sake (I have seen people make social arguments). Alot of opposition to feminism is oriented at radical "feminazis" as they are called, rather than neutral (and largely uncontested in mainstream) equality. Though "radical" and more centrist "mainstream" feminism often get lumped together, as some people who will not be named seem to think if gender equality gets in the way of opposition to radical "feminazis", well, it's just collateral damage and a price they're more than willing to pay.
That's my personal impression, at least. I don't really have much to do with it.
In gaming terms, I dont' think stereotypes are bad as long as they're used judiciously-DNF's parodying, for instance (up to debate, I know). In general though, I don't think gaming-or any medium-should go out of it's way to portray women (or anyone) in a certain light on either end of the issue, be it helpless damsel or spunky man-butt kicker with bouncing cleavage. Extra credits has gone into this in more detail but ideal female characters (or again, characters in general) should be defined to a significant degree by their gender, but not blatantly or constrictingly or-most of all-unrealistically. HL2 and Bioware games are often cited as good examples-those characters are plausable in real life, personality wise.
I'm still wondering how long it's going to be before they make a (noticable)game starring a female protagonist who isn't physically attractive. But I'm rambling now.
Because too many gamers are insecure teenage males who either associate feminism with misandry, or who fear females' entrance into their Boys' Only Club.
I really don't get why anyone would be against the desperately needed advancement of women in society.
I really don't get why anyone would be against the desperately needed advancement of women in society.
Not that anyone cares since this is on page 8 but I think that it's not just people complaining about sexist ads but that on every issue everywhere someone is complaining about something and maybe the majority are just tired of people complaining about everything all the time.
"this game is cheaper then your girlfriend" can also be taken 2 ways.
1) it says women are cheap, but this game is cheaper
2) it says women are expensive and the game is cheap (e.g going on a date, dinner and movie is gonna cost you more then this game)
Either way, it is pretty sexist and I think most people will look at it, either giggle or cringe and walk away. But then there will be some people who will get up in arms over it and the majority of the poeople who walked away will think "dude, get over it"
Thats why I think people don't like complainers, I mean unless it is something really vile, disgusting or sexist/racist (any kind of ist) then most people will ignore it or brush it off.
"this game is cheaper then your girlfriend" can also be taken 2 ways.
1) it says women are cheap, but this game is cheaper
2) it says women are expensive and the game is cheap (e.g going on a date, dinner and movie is gonna cost you more then this game)
Either way, it is pretty sexist and I think most people will look at it, either giggle or cringe and walk away. But then there will be some people who will get up in arms over it and the majority of the poeople who walked away will think "dude, get over it"
Thats why I think people don't like complainers, I mean unless it is something really vile, disgusting or sexist/racist (any kind of ist) then most people will ignore it or brush it off.
lol naughty. The guy/gal who invented the spell 'Fade' in wow can join in they are on the list <3Venereus said:
lol I need to play that game!!! but yeah we actually like and play computer games so your 'we wreck things that we then never touch' doesn't really work does it? Threatened much?matthew_lane said:
That's true. Off the top of my head I think of Quasimodo and that jacked up dude from the Goonies. Though I think a lot of "monsterish" characters, whether male or female, typically have attractive bodies and are made grotesque through markings or horns or what have you. Like succubi or that dude from that new Twilight ripoff (ah, what's it called... in the trailer some hot dude gets turned into a "monster" by a witch, I can't remember the movie title)Animyr said:
I'm not being aggressive, I was being condescending. Big difference. I've been calm all these posts. Seriously, though, in my experience everytime a woman or a man told a feminist to just 'forget about it' or 'stop whining' it was because they were in a priviledge position.FenrisDeSolar said:
So, you are different, alright, fine. You still don't get to be dismissive because the fight is not won nor is it going to be magically solved. Sure there are more women in the idustry, but that does not guarantee a change. The only thing that could guarantee a change would be to be vocal about the things we like, don't like and want changed. (And hoping someone listens.)
Having female leads does not mean that the sexist barrier has been overcome. Seriously, you get to name four, I can name twenty more games that include men as a lead. That's an inbalance. And at the rate things are going, it will not be fixed. Positive female representation in gaming is not seen as often as male. And that's the problem -- one that will not be solved by sitting back and hoping.
Cooking Mama's popularity proves what, exactly? So, because a lot of people play it, it stops being a blatant representation of archaic gender roles? I mean, of course it sells. That's what parents would buy to their daughters, not shooters or sports games. (That's for the boys.) I don't hate on Cooking Mama because it is popular, or because it is pink, or because others like it. I hate on it for the same reason I hate sports games being targeted solely at boys: it creates a divide. A divide society has deemed suitable for what boys and girls should like. Girls and the cooking, boys and the sports. And what happens when kids grow up and realize that they like the opposite? Yes, teenagers are very acceptant of girls who like football or boys who like cooking, right?
Where are you getting these crazy ideas that I want women to get paid more than men? Or to take over advertising? No, my complaint was that, since you claim BioWare products to be so progressive, why haven't they included the female character in their advertising? That doesn't immediately translate to "GET THE DUDES OUT OF THE POSTERS! BRING IN THE BOOBS!" No. They could've easily made a poster including the women and a poster including a man. But they went for a male because of the sexism that still prevails in gaming.
But if we don't express our opinions on what we consider a wrongful portrayal of women, how are we to expect the industry to change? As I said, it's not about breaking into their offices and biting away like the rabid b!tches we are, but rather, make our concerns vocal. ANd what happens when we do so, we get called feminazis and are told that we just 'whine too much.'
Is that even possible scientifically? I mean one sex of a species evolving without the other. I heard a theory that women have more evolved speech due to the hunter gatherer roles during our species development. Might explain why we can't shut up.Venereus said:
Sexy man Hawke in the posters actually attracted me to the game while a boobfest poster would probably put me off becuase it would say to me 'this game is for men and not for you.' Instead we got tall dark and glowy eyed walking towards us all broody like.... Sorry I forgot what I was going to say...ViaGalactica said:
Although double standards against men bother me (particularly the fact that men aren't allowed to show emotion for fear of being called a "pussy"/"fag"/"homo"/not a real man. I think that sounds incredibly restrictive and I'm surprised men never complain about it), I think it's silly to complain about Women's Day. There's no "Men's Day" for the same reason there's no "Caucasian Day" or "Children's Day", because every day is about children, every day is about whitey, and every day is about men.Father Time said:
Besides, "Women's Day" isn't exactly something to be jealous of. Women don't benefit from it, there's no celebration, and even if you wanted to celebrate, what are you going to do? Go up to the nearest woman, pat her on the back and say, "Hey, good job on that vagina"?