Why are there no more epic boss battles?

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darlarosa

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May 4, 2011
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At this point, while there are still good boss battles around, it seems like it would be hard to avoid imitating what has come before. Plus people get so picky about what is a "good" boss fight sometimes, and occasionally players have valid points...so it could just be quicker and easier to avoid it.

That and sometimes, depending on the game boss battles don't quite make sense, or the set up does not quite make sense. A lot of the time you end up being locked in an area fighting something and sometimes that doesn't work for the game play or narrative structure. Some games have tried to set up ways where you can avoid boss fights. Plus some games are...less hard than the majority of games used to be in a sense. The presentation has changed thus the boss fights have changed.
 

The Abhorrent

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May 7, 2011
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The reason for the general abscence of boss fights in games probably has to do with the glut of shooters and open-world games in the market right now, and neither genre is particularly fit for making good boss fights (shooters not at all, open-world games tend to have level-scaling).

Boss encounters are better fit for games from the action-adventure, hack-&-slash, and RPG genres. The first one is regrettably much rarer in the modern era than previous generations, the second has seen a dip in popularity, and the third has moved heavily towards more open-world games. Still, there are games which great boss fights out there.

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Xenoblade Chronicles is one I've been enjoying a lot recently, and is something of a throwback to earlier RPGs (with some modern improvements); the sort of game which made people fall in love with the Final Fantasy franchise. The only real downside is the graphics aren't that great, but the art design compensates for it. But yes, we want boss fights to be the focus here. XBC has some very good ones, and the difficulty is perfectly tuned for most of them. The combat system also places a great deal of emphasis on the party's morale (called "tension" for some wierd reason, must be a translation error), and in the case of boss battles this becomes a very interesting element. When an ally falls in battle, you can revive them by walking up to them and physically getting them up (and you can often follow up by encouraging them); however, them falling means the party's morale just took a huge hit and you're in recovery mode for a bit (a chain attack can really help here). Bosses are naturally longer fights than normal, so allies falling against the tougher ones can be expected; this gives many boss fights a bit of an ebb and flow to them, and the gameplay elements often add an emotional rush when you claw out from the grasp of defeat and beat your foes.

Dark Souls is another recent game with great boss fights, though it is handled quite differently; they're hard as hell, and simply beating many of them is a feat by itself. They have their quirks and tells, and you'll die many times learning them and how to take advantage of their missteps. However, it's a very frustrating game to play as well; you will screw up, you will die, and your performance can easily enter a downward spiral as you just screw up more and die more due to the increasing frustration. This is offset by the huge burst of satisfaction when you finally conquer something, but there will be times you'll have to step back for your sanity.

Sadly, both games are something of niche entertainment right now; the mainstream is focused on games and genres which don't take to good boss fights very well, so they're just harder to find as a result.
 

Gitty101

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Jan 22, 2010
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God of War 3? The Witcher 2? Dark Souls? All of these games have epic boss battles. I mean, the fights in these games pretty much fit the description of epic boss battles.
 

DocBot

The Prettiest Girl
Dec 30, 2009
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Shadow of the Colossus kinda spoiled us on epic and boss battle. Run up an enemies weapon to hit them in the face? Shadow did it. Wait till you're just a blink a way from an enemy chompin' on you to jump away and snag onto him to take you for a ride? Shadow did it. There is a mix of growing up and seeing it all to losing the time top dig into every title that leads to this nostalgia and longing for how you used to be. Alot of those boss fights are still out there but because you won't devote a day's worth of trying to get past that annoying boss to get to the big epic guy you'll never see it. And, it isn't worth your time. You've traded the wealth of time you've had when you were younger for more wealth monetarily at the cost of time. Suddenly wasting a day to get past that super cheap one-hit-kill boss isn't worth it. You put down the game and that awesome content is lost. It's not your fault, just sayin'.

It's also perspective, the first time a giant robot comes breaking through a wall to smash you into hero paste, you think 'it's such a huge mecha monstrosity! How can I kill it with this pea shooter I have?!' and when you do and it blows up into little bits it feels great. Well after shooting giant robots in Blazing Lazers. Giant aero assault vehicles in Ikaruga. And last, but probably the most vicious of all, giant wasps in Do Don Pachi, those big robots aren't so scary. So when one comes charging and does its super-move for the first time, it gets a jump out of me. Though I will never be as excited as when I was eight sitting cross-legged on the living room floor and suddenly the music changes and you're faced with that massive boss.
 

ArkhamJester

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Sep 30, 2010
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Looks at collection of Shin megami tensei games, portal 1 and 2, radiant historia, Dark Souls, Catherine... (stretching a bit but still counting it) Son, epic story related boss fights still exist, you simply need to know where to look.
 

TornadoFive

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OniaPL said:
I recently played Dark Souls, and the boss fights were great, but I still miss the story context the boss fights used to have. They were built up and foreshadowed enough, so that when you actually had to fight this boss, you were all like "Oh shit! OH SHIT! This is it! The time is now! D: ".

Games like Dark Souls kinda missed this, and from what I've heard Dragon's Dogma did too.

I may give it a whirl though.
Totally agree with you about the build up. When you hear about how powerful this boss is and what they can do and the things they've done, it can really make it seem epic!

Most recent example I can think of (for me anyway) was in Skyrim during the Thieves Guild quest line.

When Mercer and you are entering the crypt to track down Karliah, she's been built up as a stealthy assassin, who can turn invisible, is deadly with a bow, uses poisons and has killed her former teacher. Not gonna lie, making my through that crypt to find her was the most tense experience I've had in a videogame since that one building in Fallout 3 (if you've been there, you know the one I'm talking about).

Of course it's kinda ruined by the fact that you don't fight her after all, but still! The build up to the fight made it much better.
 

Launcelot111

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Jan 19, 2012
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I do and don't agree with you, OP.

There have been plenty of kickass boss fights in recent years.
-Mr Freeze from Arkham City
-the Lagiacrus from Monster Hunter Tri
-everything from Bayonetta
-Everything from Metroid Prime 3
-the Long Gui from Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2 (it's a regular enemy, but it's epic, so I don't care)

On the other hand, there have been so many shooters, which generally don't lend themselves to good boss fights. I think the perceived dominance of the WRPG over the JRPG doesn't help either, because in my book, JRPGs always have much better bosses. Dark Souls may have had epic bosses, but the likes of Skryim and Fallout were very weak in that respect. JRPGs may still have huge bosses, but less people are aware of them compared to Emerald Weapon back in the day.
 

rhyno435

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
How has no-one mentioned God Of War 3 yet? I'm pretty sure Kronos is on record as the biggest boss ever included in a videogame. He stands a genuine mile high, you traverse his entire body as if its one ginormous level, and absolutely brutalize him in a thousand different ways.


Fuck, every boss in GOW 3 was pretty damn spectacular. It says a lot when one of the least exciting bosses in a game is a 50 foot scorpion you fight in the middle of a mountain.
My personal favourite boss in that game was Aphrodite hehehe...
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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Asura's Wrath is made of these (watched via let's play's)
also
Devil May Cry, i suggest you get antiquated
and then there's Bayoneta

I'd also throw lollypop chainsaw in there, having seen the fight with Zed on youtube (i sadly can't play it)

they are out there, one need out only look
 

Lunar Templar

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
How has no-one mentioned God Of War 3 yet? I'm pretty sure Kronos is on record as the biggest boss ever included in a videogame. He stands a genuine mile high, you traverse his entire body as if its one ginormous level, and absolutely brutalize him in a thousand different ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s1TJn4jYpZs#t=505s
(the framing thing isn't working :/)
Wyzen is bigger

i think Bayonetta's Jubilaus is bigger to
 

TheRookie8

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Nov 19, 2009
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God of War managed to integrate large-scale, exciting boss battles. While some may have used quick-time events a tad too much, they managed to integrate a diverse set of gameplay mechanics.

From a story perspective, the boss battles were also exceptional. When you fought a mythological god, you KNEW and FELT like you were fighting a god. And their defeat had a lasting effect on the game as a whole.
 

DioWallachia

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OniaPL said:
Am I the only one who misses these?
Nowadays games just feel like a gray, bland mass. Back in the good old days there were so many awesome games which had epic boss battles which sent shivers down your spine, which made you feel anger and joy, and immense satisfaction when you finally won the fight.

Nowadays it's just pew pew, kill everyone, pew pew, strong monster, hit weak spot, pew pew, dodge attack, hit weak spot, pew pew.
Or alternatively in RPGs, smash that one attack until the boss dies.

I realize how blinded by nostalgia I am, but I still long for the good old days with games like Final Fantasies, Suikoden and such.
Just give me back these great moments.

(Whinepost over)

Guess I'll just boot up the emulator, pick up the controller and replay Final Fantasy IX or something.
You are not blinded by nostalgia..............yet. You still NEED to play the games made by the company Treasure. How epic are those boss fights? lets say that even a Sega Genesis game like Alien Soldier (a boss rush arcade-eske game) has at least 25 levels and 31 bosses in total. After you finish playing that THEN your convertion to the nostalgia will be complete.
 

TheRookie8

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Nov 19, 2009
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Lunar Templar said:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
How has no-one mentioned God Of War 3 yet? I'm pretty sure Kronos is on record as the biggest boss ever included in a videogame. He stands a genuine mile high, you traverse his entire body as if its one ginormous level, and absolutely brutalize him in a thousand different ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s1TJn4jYpZs#t=505s
(the framing thing isn't working :/)
Wyzen is bigger

i think Bayonetta's Jubilaus is bigger to
As the saying goes: "Size isn't everything, but it sure does help."
 

Don Savik

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Aug 27, 2011
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Boss battles are a great way to wrap up some story elements or locations before you move on to the next one. I know stories have gotten more intricate and complicated so bosses aren't necessarily viable, but I wouldn't mind them so much if they actually GOT THEIR ENDINGS RIGHT. So many games these days leave on unsatisfying cliffhangers. I'd rather just kill the badguy's super robot and save the freaking day to be honest.

That being said, its hard to do bosses right too. Nobody likes doing the same thing 3 times and winning. Nobody likes shooting glowy weakspots while the boss is stunned (because them not fighting back is fun, right? ...right?). Nobody likes untelegraphed instakill attacks. Nobody likes using some superweapon you got in the last 2 minutes of the game to kill the boss, completely disregarding all strategy you've learned up until that point. Etc etc etc.
 

JasonEllis66

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Oct 23, 2008
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OniaPL said:
RJ 17 said:
OniaPL said:
Guess I'll just boot up the emulator, pick up the controller and replay Final Fantasy IX or something.
First of all, FF9 fucking sucked. :p

Now that that's out of the way, I'd argue that it depends on 1: your definition of "epic" and 2: what games you play.

Not that anyone was paying attention by the end of the game, but the boss battle against Knight Commander Meredith in Dragon Age II was pretty epic. The boss battle against Alduin in Skyrim was pretty epic. Hell, even the last stand at the missle tanks in Mass Effect 3 was pretty epic (as it stands in place of a boss battle).
DA2 fucking sucked, and so did Meredith. That fight was shit, that story was shit, and the whole character was 60% shit.
Alduin sucked. It was yet another fucking dragon.
And the last stand sucked. Run to cover, blast blast blast, run to another cover, blast blast blast. Nothing that broke the monotone of blasting the same dudes. Don't get me wrong, I thought the combat was fine, but if it wasn't for the story, wouldn't play the game.
FF9 is also one of my favorite final fantasy games, tactics was awesome though. Arkham City had a lot of great boss fights.
 

Conn1496

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Apr 21, 2011
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It's mainly because battling one big enemy just donesn't seem as cool these days, and when they do show up, they're way too easy... Which is a shame, because showdowns are awesome. Yay, old style boss battles!
 

malestrithe

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Aug 18, 2008
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Count on God of War to have one epic boss battle each game. That boss also doubles the the first level encounter.
 

StylinBones

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Mar 3, 2012
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I know everyone has already said it, but I'd like to echo - come on, OP. What are you talking about?
 

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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Charli said:
They're all in MMO's ... the challenge? OTHER PEOPLE. And your internet... But occasionally you'll join a team that just clicks and the boss is still insanely hard. (Insanely hard to me is epic)

I like those moments.
Thats kind of funny to me... Because MMOs are only getting easier as time rolls on. Hell WoW is like MMOs for kindergarteners and the bar has only been lowered since.

Oh and on Boss battles I know its been said but I want to say it in a slightly different way? The "Souls" Brothers would like a word with you... in private.... behind a locked door.... and no one will recognize the bloody clump that is left in the room afterward and there wouldnt be enough left to shovel into a body bag.
 

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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Nostalgia, outdated gameplay mechanic that has been done to death, or it simply wasn't as fun as you remember them (which I guess may be considered as nostalgia). Take you're pick.

Games don't play on that kind of gameplay structure anymore. They've generally evolved into something else. For instance, Bioshock. There's mini Bosses such as the Big Daddies, but I'd really only say there was one boss fight in that game towards the end.

For the most part, boss fights don't really have a place in most of the games I can think of that now exclude them. It would seem tacky.

Plus, to be completely honest with you, I rarely remember enjoying any boss fights. I fucking hated the concept.