Why are we okay with Metal Gear languishing?

Recommended Videos

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,413
6,568
118
Australia
GTA and GTA 2 are open world. Let's stick with 3D so as to not overcomplicate the conversation.

As for "only Kojima can do it," I believe there has to be the right talent out there, a person or potential duo who truly understand(s) game design and storytelling, but Konami needs to let them cook, like they let Kojima cook. Delta is so standardized in ways that conflict with the original game design. The "legacy" controls are a mess too.
I’d argue the first two GTA games are more sandbox rather than open world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Ezekiel

Elite Member
May 29, 2007
2,219
760
118
Country
United States
I’d argue the first two GTA games are more sandbox rather than open world.
What do you mean? I only dabbled in GTA 2 many years ago.

My experimental "2D" MGS4 sequels that can test ideas and new characters for a big new 3D game akin to the leap that MGS1 was has the added benefit of filtering people who think games like the MSX titles aren't worthwhile. They'll have to play the third title in the new series without all the insider knowledge. The same kinds of people who don't respect the mechanical, audio, narrative and graphical progression of the series and need Metal Gear 1 and 2 remade. Probably started playing games in the 2000s.
 
Last edited:

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,413
6,568
118
Australia
What do you mean? I only dabbled in GTA 2 many years ago.
I did a bit more than dabble but take this as a personal distinction. An open world game, such as Zelda Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom has a central plotline and critical path that you can follow to technically get to the end of a game.

GTA2 conversely just drops you in the city and you go make your own fun. There's people you can do jobs for but as far as I recall, GTA2 didn't really HAVE a story. There's no central thread, no endgame in the traditional sense. Again, that I recall.
 

Ezekiel

Elite Member
May 29, 2007
2,219
760
118
Country
United States
Huh... I've never heard "open world" described in that way. Narrative-driven.
 

Ezekiel

Elite Member
May 29, 2007
2,219
760
118
Country
United States
Indies are overrated. They do not fill the hole that was left by the decline of studio games. They can't afford the talent of the 1980s and '90s.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
34,831
14,280
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
And all you do is cry for not getting every single thing you want, yet will cry for nostalgia while denying it at the same time. A cry baby like you don't know what you want, and it's all you ever do. Cry, whine, moan, and be pawns of the grifters. Sucks to be you.
 

Agema

Overhead a rainbow appears... in black and white
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
10,984
7,945
118
Indies are overrated. They do not fill the hole that was left by the decline of studio games.
Really?

It might be different in Japan where the consoles had a lock on video game production, but I would suggest that everywhere else the majority of great devs started as indies. Developers thought up ideas, pitched to publishers, and generally retained freedom to develop their own ideas.

The move to big studios owning and running franchises is perhaps around two decades old. And I would be very doubtful that many legendary gaming auteurs have come out of making the latest iteration of Battlefield of Assassin's Duty.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
34,831
14,280
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
You forget, you're talking to a never have happy brat who wants thi, and that, but the moment he gets it/sees it, it's never enough or they're not "graphically impressive", or the typical whiny: " IT'S NOT THE WAY I WANT IT!!!". You're talking to a nostalgia blind fool, who can never admit it, and is never happy with pretty much anything modern, no matter who or where it's coming from. The only exception is SOR4, and that was six years ago now.
 

Ezekiel

Elite Member
May 29, 2007
2,219
760
118
Country
United States
Streets of Rage 2 is better.
Really?

It might be different in Japan where the consoles had a lock on video game production, but I would suggest that everywhere else the majority of great devs started as indies. Developers thought up ideas, pitched to publishers, and generally retained freedom to develop their own ideas.

The move to big studios owning and running franchises is perhaps around two decades old. And I would be very doubtful that many legendary gaming auteurs have come out of making the latest iteration of Battlefield of Assassin's Duty.
Well, most of my favorite games are Japanese.

The original Deus Ex had a budget of 1.5 million dollars. Indies rarely can even afford that, and that's before adjusting for inflation.
 

Ezekiel

Elite Member
May 29, 2007
2,219
760
118
Country
United States
Not to mention much higher salaries today. The indie has to skimp on many things and certainly won't have Deus Ex composer Alexander Brandon.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,413
6,568
118
Australia
Streets of Rage 2 is better.

Well, most of my favorite games are Japanese.

The original Deus Ex had a budget of 1.5 million dollars. Indies rarely can even afford that, and that's before adjusting for inflation.
for what it’s worth, according to the inflation calculator of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis (I couldn’t find one for the US Federal Reserve Bank), that budget is worth a little under $3million now. A lot of the good Indy games are made for a lot less than that BUT, I agree you’d be hard pressed to make something of equal and equivalent quality as Deus Ex for that little money today. A million bucks doesn’t buy what it used to.