Why aren't more realistic and serious animated movies being made?

[nekoali]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Kiss

Another anime, and it fits all your criteria. It is completely realistic, everything in it can and does happen in real life. It is not a comedy or science fiction, but rather a serious drama show about finding your own path in life. It deals with some serious issues relating to interpersonal relationships between people and how we react to them. It is most definitely not a kid's movie. And it could just as easily been a live action film. In fact they are/have made a live action version of it. But it started as a manga, so it's common place to turn those into anime first.

I was also going to bring up Grave of the Fireflies but I saw that mentioned.

The reason that you will see mostly anime on these lists is in the USA and other western countries, they see 'cartoons are just for kids'. That is the line that has been held to since the start of animation in the US. It is only in the last few decades that adult oriented animation has become more common, but people change their ways slowly and with great resistance.

In Japan however, they make no such differentiation between media and audience. Comics, books, animation, live action all are treated much the same as vehicles to tell a story. The needs of the story and the preference of the creator are the determining points to what media is used, not the aimed for age category.

 

[Iconsting]

End of Evangelion.

You know, for kids.

 

[Kermi]

I POSTULATE A THEORY WHICH CAN NEVER BE DISPROVEN BECAUSE I WILL ARBITRARILY ADD CRITERIA.

What a pointless thread. There's plenty of animation and animated film which are aimed at adults and not suited to children. Most of them have already been mentioned, but the ones off the top of my head were Perfect Blue, Grave of the Fireflies and Wings of Honneamise.

I especially like how you rule out sci-fi. Well I guess all sci-fi movies and comedies are for kids too, right? I next time I babysit an 8 year old, I'll be sure to rent Go, or The Hangover.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

What the fuck did I just read?

As an animator in training, who has watched a metric ton of animated films, I can safely say that you have an incredibly narrow (possibly a little incredulous) opinion on animated film. I question your maturity with your "Rules" and I also question your experience with the medium based on your comparisons.

What's your obssession with "realism" anyway? Can't grasp abstract thought or visuals? Realism is the ***** and bane of modern visual media. It's restrictive and pre-defined. Unrealism is boundryless and bottomless... there are infinite ways to manipulate colour and shape, but legal issues against contorting and warping real people. A decently made Animated film with heart like persepolis is an ocean compared to a big budgeted blockbuster like Last king of Scotland which would be more akin to a lake.

A comedy can be profound AND NOT FOR KIDS. See Tokyo Godfather.

Some of the most influential films are Sci-Fi. Whether it be Narrative structure, camera work or aesthetics... many great films are Sci-Fi. In that regards, Ghost in the Shell is a masterpiece as it is an animated sci-fi with incredible depth, dealing with the social impact of drastic change and various other weight topics.

From what I gather by your opening post, you don't want to liberate Animation to a wider market, you want to conform it to the standards of film.

I do not approve.

If those rules are the best guidelines you have, then I think you need to close this topic, rethink your life, then not post another topic again because I doubt you would change that much upon reflection.

Also, stay away from cameras or any other creative medium, it might be too much for you.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Eh... Double post sorry. Ignore this as I'm just filling up space to avoid penalties.

 

[Khadhar]

I see your rules and raise you The Plague Dogs.

 

[I Max95]

ive seen Spirited Away

i do NOT think that movie is for kids
it has people turning to pigs, freaky looking monster-people, and a giant creature who eats people

still amazing movie though

there is also Ghost in the Shell, Beowulf, and 9

Don't forget Princess Mononoke. 10 minutes in and my dad told me to watch it in my room because it was too violent for my sisters to watch.

OT: What about Blue Submarine No. 6? It's CGI doesn't hold up now but it was gritty and dark at times.

i think i remember watching Princess Mononoke when i was a kid
i vaugely remember some sort of disease that makes people all black and white like your on the wrong channel on TV
i remember fights, and i remember somebody severing a head and putting it in a box

i also remember the nightmares for weeks afterwards
never went back to that movie after that, dont even remember what it was about

 

[pspman45]

Well a scanner darkly was animated. But it was filmed and animated over for effect. Still an animated movie though.

I loved that animation style, shame they had to go into major league debt to make it....

 

[HassEsser]

i think i remember watching Princess Mononoke when i was a kid
i vaugely remember some sort of disease that makes people all black and white like your on the wrong channel on TV
i remember fights, and i remember somebody severing a head and putting it in a box

i also remember the nightmares for weeks afterwards
never went back to that movie after that, dont even remember what it was about

That is NOT Princess Mononoke; and I have no idea what it was you were watching.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Toy Story 3.

Yeah, it's this movie about a group of friends losing their worth and coming to terms with losing their best friend in life. They travel to paradise, only to find that it's horrible then almost get destroyed in a giant fire. They hold hands and accept the fate of their painful death, only to get dragged into the hands of a new owner who will eventually grow and leave them, making them face utter depression again in a cycle of insanity.

You know, for kids.

 

[Tiger Sora]

Ahh dammit I have an absolutely perfect film, except for one problem. The main characters face is much more that of a pig. It's a self inflicted curse for turning his back on the Italian Air Force and the country after WW1.

The animated film is Porco Rosso a Studio Ghibli film by Hayao Miyazaki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porco_Rosso Wiki gives everything you'd need to know.
The movie was originally intended to be a short for Japanese Airlines inflight movies, but turned into a feature length film. The film is more for adults but even children liked it.

The setting are in Italy and the Dalmatia province islands, Croatia. Set in either 1924 or 1929. Except for the very end of the film which is set into the future in the 50's/60's as theres a jet powered plane.

Damn shame the one bit has to toss this whole movie out the window. Cause except for that one bit the entire animated film is realistic in what it portrays.

Still though an excellent film and all hand drawn. So much better than all the CGI today.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

le snip

I don't think that sf is unserious. I just think we shouldn't limit the subjects that animation tackles, since we'll miss some good movies if we do.

Agreed. However, your whole issue boils down to you wanting the general public's perception of animation to change. Various things like supply and demand and the fact that most animation studios start out as precarious ventures that desperately *need* to make money to break even - I don't see that happening any time soon.

The only way I can imagine animation could've been approached as a serious and utterly compelling medium would be if the first few cartoon shorts hadn't been obvious diversions plunked before news reels, silent flicks or the early talkies. That cultural shift would've needed to happen pretty early.

Granted, animation is still a fairly young business, only as old as cinema itself. The silver screen's gone quite a ways in obtaining letters of nobility, but most of what the film industry produces still amounts to entertainment. I figure we'll need at least another century for animation and film to become even more culturally ingrained than they are now; at which point someone *might* get the bright idea to try and make, I dunno, an animated documentary piece on 9/11.

What I'm saying is individuals can change quickly, but societies change at a snail's pace. We're still wide-eyed and bushy-tailed at the prospect of making googly-eyed cartoon dogs and cats and whatnot, it doesn't feel like the industry and Western culture as a whole is entirely ready to take "serious" animation seriously.

 

[Macgyvercas]

Tell me with a straight face that Princess Mononoke is a movie meant to be watched primarily by six year olds.

I fucking dare you.

 

[Legit101]

......................

 

[Psub Xero]

Why animate something that an actually happen? There is no point in it you can just hire actors and not sink all that money in to animation. Hell if it is realistic enough there might not be any CGI. And plus they are severely limiting their market to pretty much animation buffs who want to see realistic animations. I love animating but cannot see myself paying good money for a serious animation.

Also, think about it. For an animated movie to be serious, the models couldn't be cartoony, they would have to be as realistic as possible. With what we have today we couldn't make models realistic enough to get out of the uncanny valley, so the characters would be too off-putting for people to be able to connect with the animation. Even if we could get out of uncanny valley and make them look just like real life: what is the point of not actually filming it?

Quite honestly I think that animation was made so that we could see talking animals and other not real things. I love Pixar and Dreamworks films, they are beautifully animated and they have something for everyone. They are made for children, but they are made so as to cater to the adults so that they don't say "I am never taking my kids to one of these movies again.

To somewhat contradict myself, here are some animated films that sort of take on your rules and break what I say over their knees. They could conceivably happen (sort of) and the characters are cartoony, but it is somewhat serious. And I really like these:
Getout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILmjvmsExNQ
Infection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLEIO5Wss3Y

 

[dave1004]

Grave of the Fireflies. Most definitely.

I consider the Hellsing OVA's mini-movies, and they most definitely fit your criteria. Criteria? Wow, new favorite word!

 

[I Max95]

i think i remember watching Princess Mononoke when i was a kid
i vaugely remember some sort of disease that makes people all black and white like your on the wrong channel on TV
i remember fights, and i remember somebody severing a head and putting it in a box

i also remember the nightmares for weeks afterwards
never went back to that movie after that, dont even remember what it was about

That is NOT Princess Mononoke; and I have no idea what it was you were watching.

say what you will
but after my post i looked it up

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119698/synopsis

direct quote from it

Spoiler

"She fires and hits the half-transformed Forest Spirit in the neck; the head falls to the ground. Horrible black goo spouts from the neck, killing whatever it falls on. Dead kodama fall from the trees all around. Lady Eboshi grabs the severed head and gives it to Jigo. Porters come up carrying a round metal box. Jigo puts the head in the box and they run off."

call whoever wrote that synopsis a liar, but i hardly think we both imagined the same thing, and thought it was the same movie

and about how the curse looked i probably WAS wrong about that, my memory of movies i watch as a child is always sketchy

 

[Futurenerd]

Animated movies are not all for kids. I don't need to say anything more, as this topic is blatantly unresearched and stupid beyond words. You've clearly never actually gone and looked for the entire genre of animated movies that aren't for children. Unless you want them to grow up as gore fetishests.

And you clearly didn't read the fucking post.

 

[mkg]

The main reason is drama is more fit for live action, the human face belays so many subtle emotions it would be a daunting task to animate it without it becoming creepy.

 

[Smithburg]

Wel as to point one you say proper proportions, but there are animated movies which are serious and in modern times which fulfill every condition except the first one, but thats just art style which shouldnt count towards whether a movie is mature or not, its just how the artist made the look