Why can't fantasy RPGs be more original?

Proto Cloud

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I was just posting about this and it makes me angry that these RPGs can't get away from orcs, goblins, dwarves, elves, dragons and so on. Is it too much to ask for a fantasy game without any of this. It really takes out the wonder of these games when you've already seen all of this before.

This is why I'm not excited for Bioware's Dragon Age: Origins. Hell, it has DRAGON in its title. Can't you come up with something better Bioware? Use a little originality and make something more entertaining. It worked for Final Fantasy for a while. (They made their own weird creatures.
 

mitsoxfan

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Hm... Thinking about it, I sort of agree. Why can't someone come up with something different from dwarves, elves and humes? It seems like those are the only viable races these days.

I have to sya, I've never put any thought into this, but now I'm completely outraged!

GRRRRRRRROGRESOUNDSGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
 

Alex_P

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Indigo_Dingo said:
If it didn't have those creatures, how would it be a fantasy RPG?
Based on my experiences with fantasy pen-and-paper games, I can definitely say "yes."

All the ones that appeal to me most have very little to do with D&D tropes (whereas, let's be honest here, almost every fantasy video-game RPG, whether Western or Japanese, is a D&D rip-off).

-- Alex
 

Alex_P

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Blayze said:
Planescape: Torment. The setting is more than fantastical enough to qualify.
Indeed. Planescape is basically a weird deconstruction of D&D, though. It's D&D's equivalent to the "high-level zone" given a life of its own, and populated with people who are convinced that the denizens of an iconic D&D world are just stupid bumpkins who occasionally get really powerful and come to the planes to waste everyone's time.

-- Alex
 

Alex_P

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mitsoxfan said:
Hm... Thinking about it, I sort of agree. Why can't someone come up with something different from dwarves, elves and humes? It seems like those are the only viable races these days.
The whole idea of "races" is overused.

-- Alex
 

Nazrel

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Proto Cloud said:
I was just posting about this and it makes me angry that these RPGs can't get away from orcs, goblins, dwarves, elves, dragons and so on. Is it too much to ask for a fantasy game without any of this. It really takes out the wonder of these games when you've already seen all of this before.
There are lots that don't. Any Shin Megami Tensei game for one. Not an elf or goblin in the lot of them.
 

Proto Cloud

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Nazrel said:
There are lots that don't. Any Shin Megami Tensei game for one. Not an elf or goblin in the lot of them.
I forgot about that series, it's definitely "unique".

Indigo_Dingo said:
If it didn't have those creatures, how would it be a fantasy RPG?
As long as it has some supernatural things in the game it can be considered fantasy. Hell Super Mario Bros. has some of the best fantasy creatures around. (But it's not an RPG series anyway.) Hell, if I that the next Elder Scrolls game had a playable flying monkey race I'd buy it.
 

Proto Cloud

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chebmeh said:
You know what? Originality isn't really a requirement in fantasy RPGs, now. I'd play Forgotten Realms games even if they were to spurt out samey storylines. What we need is less focus on graphical development and more progress on accessibility, fluidity, presentation and let's not forget: the idiot needs to be sucked out of a lot of staff in the games industry.
Sure it's not a requirement, but originality goes a long way in advancing our medium in terms of storytelling and wonder.
 

Proto Cloud

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Indigo_Dingo said:
Proto Cloud said:
Indigo_Dingo said:
If it didn't have those creatures, how would it be a fantasy RPG?
As long as it has some supernatural things in the game it can be considered fantasy. Hell Super Mario Bros. has some of the best fantasy creatures around. (But it's not an RPG series anyway.) Hell, if I that the next Elder Scrolls game had a playable flying monkey race I'd buy it.
Fine. What did you think of my idea for a new direction?
It's great it's more original than 95% of RPGs on the market. I can't wait until it finally comes out. (hint: Get Valve to release it on Steam.)
 

Strafe Mcgee

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Do yuo count the final fantasy series as fantasy rpg's? Because (imo, I know some people around here think they're the devils toilet paper) they've got some fantastic storylines that are at once interesting and set in fairly unique fantasy worlds. Riding giant birds? Giant cacti as enemies? Strange combinations of machinery and monster?

Lots of interesting stuff going on in Final Fantasy.
 

Treblaine

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RPG's fail for me due to too much so-called "boar killing" and not enough playing out of so called roles. It is very hard to play the role of a paladin or Amazon warrior if you are hovering 20 feet above them and only interact with monsters by clicking on them to hack in their general direction no control of position or any possibility of tactics; it's just not very engaging. I loved the styling, look and feel of Diablo 2 but there was little more to it than building stats with little reliance on player skill, so the main survival technique was get as much stuff as you possibly can to get better equipment.

Sure, other games have rather monotonous item/supplies hunting such as resident evil where in the first one at least there were more monsters than there were bullets to kill them with. But this was used to force the player to be extra careful and have the real likelihood of ending up cornered, out of ammo, out of health and on the run. This made the zombies something to be feared and avoided as there was a very finite amount of ammo in the game, no easy re-spawning enemies dropping stuff and each box of bullets was like finding the holy grail. I loved the exploring as behind each door there may be zombies, or maybe none and may be a key to advance or may be ammo, health or even a COOL NEW WEAPON. IMHO, it perfectly taps into the Hunter-Gatherer instinct by balancing the risk/reward of exploring for keys/puzzle solutions with the prospect of increased health and powers or being confronted by a badass monster.

I can't argue that RPG's aren't popular but in whatever way they are appealing, it is not working with me. Maybe it is the scavenger instinct to mine an environment of every single natural resource picking every berry and killing every buffalo till you are so strong and equipped you can defeat any enemy with overwhelming force of a variety of pummelling attacks and being able to absorb all damage dealt.
 

Saevus

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Treblaine said:
RPG's fail for me due to too much so-called "boar killing" and not enough playing out of so called roles. It is very hard to play the role of a paladin or Amazon warrior if you are hovering 20 feet above them and only interact with monsters by clicking on them to hack in their general direction no control of position or any possibility of tactics; it's just not very engaging. I loved the styling, look and feel of Diablo 2 but there was little more to it than building stats with little reliance on player skill, so the main survival technique was get as much stuff as you possibly can to get better equipment.
Pro-tip: Diablo 2 isn't much of an RPG. Action RPG, really. You want a ROLEplaying game, you go play Baldur's Gate 2, KotOR, Planescape: Torment, something like that. Not Clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick 2.

Fantasy RPGs aren't terribly original because 1. they are either based in an established setting, or 2. the developers/writer of the setting/crazed deity high in the sky did not see fit to risk their livelihood. Doing anything other than what is expected is a gamble, and a lot of people aren't financially able to take that risk. You and I may think that some innovation would be fan-fucking-tastic, but most consumers do not. And hell, it may not even be GOOD innovation.
 

mshcherbatskaya

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Go stand in the fantasy section of your local bookstores and look at the covers--mages, orcs, goblins, warriors, elves, etc., etc.

Why would fantasy RPGs be any more original than the fantasy novels they mimic?

EDIT: Speaking of one fantasy novel that I think would make the seeds of a fascinating game, though: Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell.
 

Saskwach

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mshcherbatskaya said:
Go stand in the fantasy section of your local bookstores and look at the covers--mages, orcs, goblins, warriors, elves, etc., etc.

Why would fantasy RPGs be any more original than the fantasy novels they mimic?

EDIT: Speaking of one fantasy novel that I think would make the seeds of a fascinating game, though: Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell.
*cries at the sad omission of China Mieville's Bas Lag novels, but agrees all the same*
 

Proto Cloud

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Strafe Mcgee said:
Do yuo count the final fantasy series as fantasy rpg's? Because (imo, I know some people around here think they're the devils toilet paper) they've got some fantastic storylines that are at once interesting and set in fairly unique fantasy worlds. Riding giant birds? Giant cacti as enemies? Strange combinations of machinery and monster?

Lots of interesting stuff going on in Final Fantasy.
Already mentioned that, though some FFs are a bit samey in terms of story, characters, and species.
mshcherbatskaya said:
Go stand in the fantasy section of your local bookstores and look at the covers--mages, orcs, goblins, warriors, elves, etc., etc.

Why would fantasy RPGs be any more original than the fantasy novels they mimic?

EDIT: Speaking of one fantasy novel that I think would make the seeds of a fascinating game, though: Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell.
I know that's the reason, but games, novels, and movies have to advance the genre to breathe new life to it. I sincerely miss the sense of wonder from LOTR, Narnia, Final Fantasy, and so on. The only recent fantasy that has captured my imagination was Pan's Labyrinth.

I propose the following: An action-rpg like Mass Effect, set in Mayan mythology. Here you are a Mayan priest/priestess that gets fed up with the inhumanity that the gods have brought forth. He/she begins a journey that sets him/her out to challenge them. It'll be like Fallout where you can select the way you play and you can persuade people to your side. Instead of HP, you have a luck gauge. Every time you get attacked without blocking you narrowly avoid the attack, but you lose luck. Once your luck's run out you get killed. I tend to get tired of seeing characters take 20+ stabs/clubs/punches/burns without dying. This would make more sense. You earn magic as you learn it from enemies and gods.

Now that's something I'd go for.
 

runtheplacered

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What I liked about Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura was that they used Elves, dwarfs, etc.. but they were in a setting that was more steam punk then high fantasy.. and they were definitely not your stereotypical dwarf or elf. Very well done, I thought.. to breath a little life into an arguably stale genre.