Why can't games influence bad behaviour?

[SillyBear]

--------------Please do not reply to this with counter arguments unless you specifically reference my points and have read the whole thing. I don't want to see this turn into a thread full of angry people claiming I'm saying things that I am not.-----------------------------

You don't have to look very far to see accusations of video games causing murders. It seems every few months a high profile case involving a murder will pop up and video games will be listed as the cause of the murder.

Most murders have many causes. Thousands, probably. Pointing to one thing and saying "that's what caused it!" is close minded and unwise. We surely can all agree on this.

But there's one thing I don't understand about the gaming community as a whole.

Why are we so damn sure video games can't influence a person to bad things?

Humans are highly influential. Art, stories, music, ideas and rhetoric are things that influence every single one of us. They can change things as minor as our mood to larger things such as our views on society, our perception of others and even our very sense of self. Surely this isn't a controversial statement. Every single one of you reading this, has, at some point in time - been influenced by a form of entertainment or art.

Video games contain all of these things. And what's more, they contain them in a way that is immersive and interactive.

With me so far? Good.

The degree to which we are affected by an idea or a theme in a piece of art or entertainment varies from person to person. One person can read a book and think "heh, that was cool" and put it down and never think of it again. The next person could read that book and have it blow their mind. The way they think has literally been altered by it. The Catcher in the Rye is a classic example to use for this.

Once again, surely I haven't said anything controversial yet.

We have established the fact that art and entertainment can influence us in either tiny ways or huge ways. We have also established the fact that some people are far more susceptible to this.

So, why is it such a crazy idea that maybe people in a dark place or an unhealthy state of mind might read, watch or play something that just pushes them a little further in the wrong direction?

Do I believe a normal person can sit down to play a video game and afterwards go outside and feel the urge to murder? No - that's madness. Do I believe certain individuals have the potential to be negatively influenced in a violent manner after reading a book? Yes. Listening to a song? Yes. Watching a movie? Yes. Playing a game? Yes.

Blocking our ears and yelling "No! No! No!" whenever someone suggests a person may have been negatively influenced by a game just makes us look like children. We have to be logical and open minded. There is nothing that says a person can't be influenced by a game. Just because we all played GTA and walked away fine doesn't mean someone, somewhere, in a different state of mind will as well.

In short, what I am saying is that I believe video games can and do influence people to do strange and negative things. However they are only 1 influencing factor in a million influencing factors. You know what matters more? Their upbringing. Their social circles. Their neurology.

If we work on ensuring that everyone born in our society is raised well, treated well and has access to satisfactory standards of mental health care then we don't have to worry about a movie or a game influencing them - do we? We should be mindful of mental health issues and we should notice when someone starts showing bad symptoms.

Video games can be a small influencing factor in bad behaviour - but I struggle to see where they could be the blame. I knew a guy who killed himself because his girlfriend left him. Was her decision to leave him influential in his suicide? Yes. Would it be fair to blame her for it? No, it wouldn't. There were clearly other things going on inside his head for this to happen. The same is true here.

Hopefully I've made some people think down a different line. I just think the angle the gaming community takes on this subject is really, really misguided.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Sure, video games can maybe, possibly, theoretically influence us to do bad things.

But here's the thing - Of all the media we have access to, video games are the LEAST interactive of them all on an emotional level, which is typically what drives people to do the bad things (Or good) that they do.

Regardless, yes, in theory, video games can influence one to do bad things. But its no more effective, and is in fact probably less effective, than anything else you may experience.

I'm struggling to come up with more to say, but you basically started off with an idea that video games can cause harm, that we should consider it, and then you shot the idea down yourself.

...I'm not sure where I can go from there.

 

[Vausch]

I don't doubt that media can influence someone to do something bad and video games are well within that realm.

It's when lawyers or politicians attempt to say that the game itself is causing some type of hypnotic effect on people that will cause anybody that plays it to start going insane or cause their behaviour to change instantly and make them into a killer that gets me riled up.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. It's not that people don't think games can influence behaviour, it's that *people* are pinning games as the sole reason someone did a bad thing one time.

While Screen Media can influence people's bad behaviour, people have been doing abhorrent things long before its advent.

 

[Keoul]

Spoiler: This part is not really related to your argument or anything but i just wanted to mention it.

With me so far? Good.

Once again, surely I haven't said anything controversial yet.

Were these lines necessary? they seem so snobby, it's like you think you're talking to a bunch of kids which is just plain rude.

Why are we so damn sure video games can't influence a person to bad things?

I can't really speak for the ENTIRE gaming community so I doubt you should either. My personal opinion on that subject is that video games CAN influence people to do bad things, however they aren't any more influential than a book or a movie. As you've said, almost anything can influence anyone, the thing is that video games isn't any worse than the other forms of of media. Which might I mention, aren't getting any slack for it and being accused of causing murders. You don't see people screaming "Those damn Saw movies are causing murders!".

Do I believe a normal person can sit down to play a video game and afterwards go outside and feel the urge to murder? No - that's madness. Do I believe certain individuals have the potential to be negatively influenced in a violent manner after reading a book? Yes. Listening to a song? Yes. Watching a movie? Yes. Playing a game? Yes.

Now you see that is some clever wording, you go from "Do I believe a normal person" to "Do I believe certain individuals". See now that's just sneaky, you're basically saying that you acknowledge "normal" people won't be influenced by video games to commit murder but "some individuals" will, these some individuals are the ones who have mental disabilities and by all fairness, are crazy. Unless of course you can justify someone who wants to commit a murder because they saw it on tv or played it on a game as "not crazy".

There is nothing that says a person can't be influenced by a game. Just because we all played GTA and walked away fine doesn't mean someone, somewhere, in a different state of mind will as well.

To be fair they did do some research remember?
And by they i mean numerous research firms, I can't remember the details exactly but if you want I can go dig em up, there were quite numerous on the escapist.

In short, what I am saying is that I believe video games can and do influence people to do strange and negative things. However they are only 1 influencing factor in a million influencing factors. You know what matters more? Their upbringing. Their social circles. Their neurology.

I agree with you here, but what you're saying is what everybody knows, we're arguing that video games isn't an instant trigger for people that turns them from normal person to crazed gunman that so many people seem to believe.

If we work on ensuring that everyone born in our society is raised well, treated well and has access to satisfactory standards of mental health care then we don't have to worry about a movie or a game influencing them - do we? We should be mindful of mental health issues and we should notice when someone starts showing bad symptoms.

When you mentioned this I'm suspecting you were purposely ignoring the mental issues part in the previous portions of your post.

TL;DR You're arguing something we already know, games can influence people to do bad things but they aren't an instant trigger that causes people to go nuts as the media seems to believe.

 

[Evonisia]

Video Games CAN influence people to do bad things, and I agree for the most part on your points.

The reason we all seem to block our ears or laugh at the person pinning the blame on video games is the fact that they're pinning it solely to video games which judging by your argument you don't agree with.

 

[DoPo]

Do I believe a normal person can sit down to play a video game and afterwards go outside and feel the urge to murder? No - that's madness.

Madness? THIS IS THE ESCAP-I-I-I-IST!
Funny how that's the arguments I've seen so far against gaming. There are people literally claiming that.

Do I believe certain individuals have the potential to be negatively influenced in a violent manner after reading a book? Yes. Listening to a song? Yes. Watching a movie? Yes. Playing a game? Yes.

And funny how you're just echoing what I've seen gamers say, too. Yes, there could be people influenced badly by games, but guess what - they would be similarly influenced by almost any other media and/or other experiences so we also shouldn't be focusing on only one source. Still, you didn't take in consideration a reverse - there would also be people that are not affected by games, instead they already have violent tendencies which can lead them into gaming.

In short, what I am saying is that I believe video games can and do influence people to do strange and negative things. However they are only 1 influencing factor in a million influencing factors. You know what matters more? Their upbringing. Their social circles. Their neurology.
[...]
Video games can be a small influencing factor in bad behaviour - but I struggle to see where they could be the blame.

Indeed. So let me describe how the arguments actually go:
Other party: Video games make people kill other people.
Gamers: *shrug* No, not really. Normally games won't make anybody kill anybody, unless they have mental issues in which case games won't be the one and only factor.

Hopefully I've made some people think down a different line. I just think the angle the gaming community takes on this subject is really, really misguided.

Nope, I think you're actually preaching to the choir.

 

[krazykidd]

There is a difference between influencing and causing .

I don't think you'll find anyone that will say videogames cannot influence someone to be violent. But videogames do not cause violent acts . Someone doesn't become violent because they play violent vidoegames . However , a violent person can be influenced by a violent videogame .

 

[Thaluikhain]

People are only influenced by things I personally don't care about.

...

Most seriously, there's a backlash against the idea. Yes, very often it's because someone said crime X was because of game Y, (which often turns out to be a iguana and not a game), but even when it isn't, people strawman it to being that.

A lot of people don't like their group being criticised, or even to admit that there might be a problem with something their group likes, and view it as an attack on them personally.

 

[DoPo]

Actually, to follow up my previous post - I came across a thread about video games and violence just now. It's a shame I didn't do that earlier, since it confirms my point so well

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/24/20161358-boy-8-accused-of-intentionally-killing-87-year-old-woman-in-louisiana?lite=

"Although a motive for the shooting is unknown at this time investigators have learned that the juvenile suspect was playing a video game, 'Grand Theft Auto IV,' a realistic game that has been associated with encouraging violence and awards points to players for killing people, just minutes before the homicide occurred," the statement said.

Yep because bad parenting (or guardianing, or whatever) had nothing to do with it. Let's not even bother questioning how this 8 year old kid got his hands on a loaded gun in the first place.

This kid probably had a wonderful life full of love and fortune and happiness up until he turned on his Xbox and fired up GTA IV... then a gun materialized in the room and all the blood drained from his face as he shambled into the living room, almost as if some sort of puppet, and raised the gun to the woman's head and killed her.

Had to be that damned GTA IV. No way there were any other root causes for this.

God fucking dammit I hate our media.

And on top of that it gets bonus points for the kid being...well, a kid.

Also bonus Internet points to this poster

The obvious solution to this? Put age restrictions on such games so that impressionable pre-teens won't think it's a good idea to kill someone.


Wait, are you telling me it already has an age restriction on it?

In all seriousness though, you know we're in a fucked up world when people question a video game the kid was playing before questioning why he had a loaded gun in the first place.

I really can't add more to this other than it confirms my point above - you're preaching to the choir OP. These are the people you're trying to educate - they seem educated already.